ws4 vs mytek vs bel canto ulink vs meridian explorer vs audiophilleo vs linn akurate vs jk dac vs berkley Alpha vs m2 tech evo vs ps audio vs antelope rubidium master clock

[garyfrancis100]

I need a dac upgrade

ws4 mk11 dac

mytek

bel canto ulink

meridian explorer

audiophilleo

linn akurate dac

jk dac sabre and cucinia

berkley Alpha

m2 tech evo 3 box

ps audio mk 2

antelope rubidium master clock

 

Before you post please read my info.

 

As you can see I am newbie today I have been avoiding computer dacs for sometime as I have always found it inferior to Vinyl and most top flight cd/transport set ups

 

I purchased one of the first m2 tech usb dacs which was not too impressed although seemed ok.

I then recently tried again and purchased an Epiphany Audio dac which i must say i am very impressed it renders decent mp3's over networks and streaming very well. Not bad for the money

 

So now I am thinking what will I get if I spend 3 to 20 times that amount on my

 

I have heard the Linn Akurate and ps Audio (without bridge) which I was impressed but leaned toward the easy to follow linn, although the linn was part of an all linn set up which think comes close to the dcs scarlatti/debussy which i dont think is worth the money in terms of pound for sound,

 

I have not heard any of the others listed but I have been searching the net for the best part of a year now and the above seem to be best value for sound but how much better than the cheaper dacs listed can they be.

 

My main goal is realism, dynamics and wide soundstage in that order. If it does not sound real i dont see the point in talking about timing, detail, macro etc

 

There is a sea of usb dacs out there and it is getting bigger I would prefer if the dac could accept various inputs other than usb but ultimately sound quality is paramount regardless of options.

[ted_b]

Welcome to CA. A couple things:

1) your title is VERY confusing and not subject to lots of traffic IMHO

2) your list includes DACs, USB converters and stand alone clocks. Those are not comparable. Not sure where you culled this list from, but is this comprehensive (i.e you've narrowed it down to these dozen choices)?

3) what do you mean by "real"? none of this is real; the music playback system is full of tradeoffs and listening preferences. Otherwise how can people have SET amps and horns and call what they produce "real" when others have monster ss amps and multi-driver arrays and THEY call their music "real"? Describe the rest of your system please, and your listening preferences.

4) Your only comment about music files was lossy MP3's yet you wonder why your DAC experiences don't stack up to vinyl. I'm not surprised.

 

So my summary is this: "real" music is likely not coming from MP3's, and is likely very different from user to user. So your best bet is, once you describe your tastes and your system (i.e any limitations on dynamics or soundstage could actually come from other parts of your system), to listen to user feedback here, but take with a grain of salt until you start hearing what these sound like in your own music playback system.

[garyfrancis100]

I did not want to go into my set up at this time as I have two main set ups. I have listened full range speakers horns etc and other gear with plenty home demos.

When I talk about realism I mean what it says I play and listen to real life instruments without amplification and know what it should sound like on playback. I also appreciate studio recordings will sound different as amplification is used.

I am looking a replaying music via a computer whether it be a mac or windows os. I do have a dac which is why I am still open to having a u link from my computer to my dac or complete dac replacement hence variation in list.

I would like to hear from people who may be using one or more of these items or who has extensivley home demo;d one or more so I can get an idea of thoughts which would help narrow my choice.

Hope this clears up some off my post

[ar-t]

Don't waste your money on an kind of rubidium clock. They are not the "low jitter" device many believe they are.

[garyfrancis100]

Don't waste your money on an kind of rubidium clock. They are not the "low jitter" device many believe they are.

 

Hi thanks for reponse I have heard Hi Res, Flac, Aiff , and Wav files and have noticed some high end systems are very good with good recordings but not so good with older poorer quality. I am after a dac that will improve these recordings to a better listening experience including mp3. Yes ultimately I will be playing good quality audio files although not everything is available in high quality.

Have you any suggestions

[mav52]

Hi thanks for reponse I have heard Hi Res, Flac, Aiff , and Wav files and have noticed some high end systems are very good with good recordings but not so good with older poorer quality. I am after a dac that will improve these recordings to a better listening experience including mp3. Yes ultimately I will be playing good quality audio files although not everything is available in high quality.

Have you any suggestions

 

 

One thing I have noticed, is that a good detailed DAC will point out some issues within some systems and will make a poor quality recording sound even worst, but on the other hand, a well made recording will open up giving a nice wider soundstage and DSD is well even better. Nothing can fix a poor recording..

[Toddc2]

I need a dac upgrade

ws4 mk11 dac

 

 

What is the mkii dac? I have heard rumors that W4S is coming up with an upgraded DAC2. Curious if this reference is to the new version and if so has W4S made any announcements?

[garyfrancis100]

What is the mkii dac? I have heard rumors that W4S is coming up with an upgraded DAC2. Curious if this reference is to the new version and if so has W4S made any announcements?

 

 

Yes there is going to be an updated version of the dac 2 this month which I have pre-booked for demo

[garyfrancis100]

One thing I have noticed, is that a good detailed DAC will point out some issues within some systems and will make a poor quality recording sound even worst, but on the other hand, a well made recording will open up giving a nice wider soundstage and DSD is well even better. Nothing can fix a poor recording..

 

I only use my current dac via cd transport and it sounds great with hi quality cd for is some what forgiving of poorer quality cds and renders it more listenable.

I i am looking for similar results when playing files from a computer which I am hearing can bring better results playing identical files cd vs computer.

[Audio_ELF]

Don't waste your money on an kind of rubidium clock. They are not the "low jitter" device many believe they are.

Please be aware at-t is a manufacturer who doesn't sell rubidium clocked devices so their "advice" here should be taken with this in mind...

 

Eloise

[pfarthing]

You just need to set a budget then audition various units, ideally at home or with amp and speaker setups similar to your own. Listen to various products and buy the thing you like best. If demos are hard in your location then look at outfits that offer money back trials.

 

There's a mega list of DACs here: DAC Price List 2013 | DACinfo

 

It's impossible to listen to everything. Don't sweat that -- just try and find the best thing in your budget that meets your expectations. If you don't find anything in your budget that does it for you, then you might need to consider investments that optimize the USB transport side of things (e.g. a CAPS server) in addition to finding the right DAC itself.

 

I'm going to pick a few based on my prejudices and that you said you didn't like the Sabre based M2Tech DACs- you can research them:

Halide DAC HD

Metrum Octave MKII

NAD M51

Bel Canto DAC 2.5

Red Wine Audio Isabellina

Ayre QB9

Metrum Hex

AMR DP-777

[garyfrancis100]

You just need to set a budget then audition various units, ideally at home or with amp and speaker setups similar to your own. Listen to various products and buy the thing you like best. If demos are hard in your location then look at outfits that offer money back trials.

 

There's a mega list of DACs here: DAC Price List 2013 | DACinfo

 

It's impossible to listen to everything. Don't sweat that -- just try and find the best thing in your budget that meets your expectations. If you don't find anything in your budget that does it for you, then you might need to consider investments that optimize the USB transport side of things (e.g. a CAPS server) in addition to finding the right DAC itself.

 

I'm going to pick a few based on my prejudices and that you said you didn't like the Sabre based M2Tech DACs- you can research them:

Halide DAC HD

Metrum Octave MKII

NAD M51

Bel Canto DAC 2.5

Red Wine Audio Isabellina

Ayre QB9

Metrum Hex

AMR DP-777

 

thank farthing

 

I may still want to connect a transport to play cd's so this will narrow things down. I am also wondering if I should think of the future and go for dsd ready dacs

myteek comes to mind not sure if berkley or wyred for sound do dsd

[jrobbins50]

thank farthing

 

I may still want to connect a transport to play cd's so this will narrow things down. I am also wondering if I should think of the future and go for dsd ready dacs

myteek comes to mind not sure if berkley or wyred for sound do dsd

 

You should probably pick up a copy of Stereophile magazine. The current issue reviews the new Oppo players, with the BDP-105 sounding a lot like an entire DAC/preamp thrown into one, and with the ability to do DSD files in particular formats. It reviews a couple of other DACs that have DSD capabilities. Kal Rubinson also points out in this article that there is a dearth of pre/pros that accept DSD input, particularly multichannel. So, if you are like me and have come to appreciate the virtues of Audyssey sound processing, a DAC like the Mytek does not provide the room EQ that you may require.

 

For DACs, I have the Bel Canto DAC 3.5vb, the Meridian Explorer, the Audioquest Dragonfly and the Benchmark Dac1. I use the Meridian and Audioquest DACs in desktop systems, and I prefer the Meridian soundwise and for its ability to handle 24/192, which the Audioquest does not. As between the Bel Canto and Benchmark, the Bel Canto is the clear winner. Of course, it is the most expensive. None of my DACs handle native DSD files.

 

For USB-to-SPIDF devices, I have both the Bel Canto uLink and the Bel Canto RefLink. I started out with the uLink in my big system (with the Bel Canto DAC) and thought it rendered a nice improvement. Then, I put the RefLink in its place and it smoked the uLink. Of course, the RefLink is lot more expensive. I now am using the RefLink with USB-to-Firewire, as the Bel Canto accepts that input. It seems to be a smoother sound than SPIDF. I have moved the uLink into my secondary system with the Benchmark Dac1 and it sounds very nice.

 

Every quality step up does make mp3 files sound better, particularly 320kb ones. But, no mp3 file I have heard can come close to an analog-like sound and if that is what you are looking for, please let me know if you find it. Cheers. JCR

[garyfrancis100]

You should probably pick up a copy of Stereophile magazine. The current issue reviews the new Oppo players, with the BDP-105 sounding a lot like an entire DAC/preamp thrown into one, and with the ability to do DSD files in particular formats. It reviews a couple of other DACs that have DSD capabilities. Kal Rubinson also points out in this article that there is a dearth of pre/pros that accept DSD input, particularly multichannel. So, if you are like me and have come to appreciate the virtues of Audyssey sound processing, a DAC like the Mytek does not provide the room EQ that you may require.

 

For DACs, I have the Bel Canto DAC 3.5vb, the Meridian Explorer, the Audioquest Dragonfly and the Benchmark Dac1. I use the Meridian and Audioquest DACs in desktop systems, and I prefer the Meridian soundwise and for its ability to handle 24/192, which the Audioquest does not. As between the Bel Canto and Benchmark, the Bel Canto is the clear winner. Of course, it is the most expensive. None of my DACs handle native DSD files.

 

For USB-to-SPIDF devices, I have both the Bel Canto uLink and the Bel Canto RefLink. I started out with the uLink in my big system (with the Bel Canto DAC) and thought it rendered a nice improvement. Then, I put the RefLink in its place and it smoked the uLink. Of course, the RefLink is lot more expensive. I now am using the RefLink with USB-to-Firewire, as the Bel Canto accepts that input. It seems to be a smoother sound than SPIDF. I have moved the uLink into my secondary system with the Benchmark Dac1 and it sounds very nice.

 

Every quality step up does make mp3 files sound better, particularly 320kb ones. But, no mp3 file I have heard can come close to an analog-like sound and if that is what you are looking for, please let me know if you find it. Cheers. JCR

 

I definitely want to be playing 24/192 and DSD/Native (when the recording company's decide to re-release masters on this format albeit at a premium). I would like to hear improvements 320 to 720 kb as a secondary on mp3 formats

 

Lets say I went for the RefLink in my main system which dac would I then choose as new to go with the ref link

Would i not be better to use dac which does not require usb linking device that will take the signal direct from usb.

Lets say the Benchmark dac 2 had usb a input, would you still use the ulink or ref/link Bel Canto.

Forgive if I am missing a something If I am please explain as I am still a leyman new to computer audio.

 

My secondary system would be a decent pair of headphone, headphone amp and usb spdif dac to play straight from my lap top.

[Blake]

@garyfrancis100: the stand alone usb/spdif converter mentioned by jrobbins is not required. However, it seems the majority of people posting about stand-alone usb/spdif converters here on CA (myself included) are finding that for whatever reason, the insertion of the stand-alone converter improves the overall sound quality of a user's system (as opposed to going from your computer's usb out, directly to your DAC's usb input).

 

Having said that, there are a few here on CA with differing opinions on this subject. The only way to find out is to try for yourself.

[Blake]

Also, I owned the Bel Canto uLink and demo'ed the REFlink in my system for months, and highly recommend both.

[garyfrancis100]

Blake You say owned a a bel canto ulink and demo,d a ref/link are you using either of these with the bel Canto Dac 2.5 or are you now using the Berkley Alpha USB with the 2.5. If so did you find it superior to the ref/link

[Blake]

Blake You say owned a a bel canto ulink and demo,d a ref/link are you using either of these with the bel Canto Dac 2.5 or are you now using the Berkley Alpha USB with the 2.5. If so did you find it superior to the ref/link

 

I am using the BADA USB, as I found it to be the best overall performer, but unfortunately it was also the most expensive by a good margin (the BADA performs best with an AES/EBU cable, so I decided to purchase that as well, which further added to the cost differential over the REFLink). Whether it is worth the added cost over the REFLink is very debatable. It was for me, but I suspect others that heard the difference may not agree.

 

I inserted a short review of these converters in Elberoth's excellent 15 converter shootout thread (be forewarned, my review completely stinks compared to Elberoth's detailed and insightful analysis):

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-usb-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/

[ted_b]

UPDATE: Wyred4Sound just announced that they are adding DSD64, DSD128, 32/384k, driverless Linux and OSX and integer support..all via a new $350 upgraded USB board on their DAC2 (which takes the $1499 to $1849). They are also announcing a SE edition, with upgraded parts (fuses, Vishays, caps, etc) for another $650-ish ($2499).

W4S DAC-2 DSD UPGRADE - Modifications - DAC 2, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

DAC2se - W4S DAC-2se (DAC2) - DACs - DAC 2, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

[garyfrancis100]

I am using the BADA USB, as I found it to be the best overall performer, but unfortunately it was also the most expensive by a good margin (the BADA performs best with an AES/EBU cable, so I decided to purchase that as well, which further added to the cost differential over the REFLink). Whether it is worth the added cost over the REFLink is very debatable. It was for me, but I suspect others that heard the difference may not agree.

 

I inserted a short review of these converters in Elberoth's excellent 15 converter shootout thread (be forewarned, my review completely stinks compared to Elberoth's detailed and insightful analysis):

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-usb-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/

The jk, m2 tech 3 box and the formidable alpha are a force to be reckoned. How much influence will they have when you use with an already good stand alone dac. You mentioned Puccini/scarletti in use with these converters and some others but what about the likes of WS4, Linn Akurate and ps audio. Won't list anymore It would be nice to hear how much influence each converter would have, combined with each dac. Also whether each converter has a distinct signature (consistency) over each dac.

[garyfrancis100]

UPDATE: Wyred4Sound just announced that they are adding DSD64, DSD128, 32/384k, driverless Linux and OSX and integer support..all via a new $350 upgraded USB board on their DAC2 (which takes the $1499 to $1849). They are also announcing a SE edition, with upgraded parts (fuses, Vishays, caps, etc) for another $650-ish ($2499).

W4S DAC-2 DSD UPGRADE - Modifications - DAC 2, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

DAC2se - W4S DAC-2se (DAC2) - DACs - DAC 2, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

 

Thanks for the link. Just reading that I can sense what this demo is going to sound like

[Elberoth]

Please be aware at-t is a manufacturer who doesn't sell rubidium clocked devices so their "advice" here should be taken with this in mind...

 

Thanks for pointing that out. Having said that ... he is actually right The best crystal oscilators have better phase noise performance than Rubidium clocks.

 

The performance of Rb is further compromissed by a phase locked loop that needs to be used with them to divide the 1MHz clock signal into 44.1/48k multiple needed for audio (most comercially available Rb clocks, if not all, came in 10MHz standard).

[garyfrancis100]

the w4s SE is hot on berkley for sound but there are 2 at twice the price which are competing and in some cases better dacs in the 10k league. Invicta some may of heard of and Lampizator yes sounds like an Arnold movie but it has good specs and sound to match. Wont bother with links you will find them both easily on search engines.

[duncan]

You should probably pick up a copy of Stereophile magazine. The current issue reviews the new Oppo players, with the BDP-105 sounding a lot like an entire DAC/preamp thrown into one, and with the ability to do DSD files in particular formats. It reviews a couple of other DACs that have DSD capabilities. Kal Rubinson also points out in this article that there is a dearth of pre/pros that accept DSD input, particularly multichannel. So, if you are like me and have come to appreciate the virtues of Audyssey sound processing, a DAC like the Mytek does not provide the room EQ that you may require.

 

For DACs, I have the Bel Canto DAC 3.5vb, the Meridian Explorer, the Audioquest Dragonfly and the Benchmark Dac1. I use the Meridian and Audioquest DACs in desktop systems, and I prefer the Meridian soundwise and for its ability to handle 24/192, which the Audioquest does not. As between the Bel Canto and Benchmark, the Bel Canto is the clear winner. Of course, it is the most expensive. None of my DACs handle native DSD files.

.....

 

I see you own DACS and USB-to-spdif converters. Have you ever use the Meridian Explorer as USB-to-spdif converter?

It is possible to connact an 3.5mm toslink cable in the Meridian.

Is that comparable to the Bel Canto Ulink or Reflink?