tonmeister86 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 We recently conducted some controlled double-blind listening tests and measurements on six popular headphones to study the relationship between perception and measurement of headphone sound quality. The question we posed was can listeners agree on what headphones they prefer based on sound quality? And can their headphone preferences be predicted based on a set of objective measurements? I've post a summary of the paper with a link to the slides we presented at the recent AES Convention: Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Relationship between Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality Cheers | Sean Olive | Director Acoustic Research | Harman International | http://seanolive.blogspot.com Link to comment
wgb113 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Which was the AKG K701? Bill Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Mac Mini->Roon + Tidal->KEF LS50W Link to comment
souptin Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 As always a very interesting read and clearly very well implemented tests. Link to comment
sandyk Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 [You will be hard pressed to find a manufacturer who will supply these measurements of their products/QUOTE] Sean You will be hard pressed to even find a manufacturer that tells you if their headphones comply with the old IEC61938 directive, which specifies that all headphones, irrespective of their impedance, should be driven from a 120 ohm source impedance, as the AKG K701, Audio Technica W1000 and many other older types do. Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
wkhanna Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Headphones are notoriously difficult to measure accurately. Interesting to see the correlation between the measured & perceived results. Bill Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob ....just an "ON" switch, Please! Link to comment
dalethorn Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Much more difficult to do blind tests because of the feel and fit of the headsets, which give clues to the test subjects. Link to comment
tonmeister86 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 [You will be hard pressed to find a manufacturer who will supply these measurements of their products/QUOTE] Sean You will be hard pressed to even find a manufacturer that tells you if their headphones comply with the old IEC61938 directive, which specifies that all headphones, irrespective of their impedance, should be driven from a 120 ohm source impedance, as the AKG K701, Audio Technica W1000 and many other older types do. Regards Alex Alex, I'm wondering how important this is? How many input sources have such high output impedances? The iPod/iphone are much less than 120 ohms, as are most receivers. Cheers | Sean Olive | Director Acoustic Research | Harman International | http://seanolive.blogspot.com Link to comment
tonmeister86 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Much more difficult to do blind tests because of the feel and fit of the headsets, which give clues to the test subjects. Yes, this is true. We considered anesthetizing subjects from the neck up but the lawyers wouldn't allow us to for some reason There are virtual headphone listening test methods where you can simulate the different headphones over a reference headphone that is equalized to the measured linear magnitude response of the target phones. That makes the comparisons blind w/o tactile/comfort cues; of course, it ignores the nonlinear behavior of the headphone but binaural recordings can capture that. We tried this with some success, and are presenting a paper on this at the upcoming AES 51st Loudspeaker/Headphone conference in Helsinki in August. Cheers | Sean Olive | Director Acoustic Research | Harman International | http://seanolive.blogspot.com Link to comment
tonmeister86 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 As always a very interesting read and clearly very well implemented tests. Thanks. We have learned a lot from doing these listening tests. They are a pain in the butt to do, which is probably why so few people try. Cheers | Sean Olive | Director Acoustic Research | Harman International | http://seanolive.blogspot.com Link to comment
sandyk Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Alex, I'm wondering how important this is? How many input sources have such high output impedances? The iPod/iphone are much less than 120 ohms, as are most receivers. Hi Sean It's very important with headphones such as the K701 which have steeply rising impedance at higher frequencies. See http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/archivesart/806AKGFIG1.jpg Headphones like these have exaggerated HF response which can be very fatiguing to listen to for extended periods unless driven from a source impedance of 120 ohms. When doing that, you also need to use an amplifier with high voltage swing capabilities such as one using + and -20V supply rails for best results. I have previously posted a project in a U.K. based forum for a Class A headphone amplifier, where quite a few members report vastly improved results with their AKG 701s when using this amplifier . In fact, another group buy is presently being organised by a couple of members to make more of these amplifiers. I also get markedly improved results from this HA with my Audio Technica W1000 with 120 ohm series output resistors. I won't post a link to this project, but I can PM you a link if you wish to see the reports by those using this amplifier with their K701s. The ebay Panda kit or ready made Panda HA, when used with 120 output resistors also gives excellent results with these difficult to drive headphones, as it also uses +-20V supply rails. Varying the output impedance of headphone amplifiers to improve tonal balance with certain types of headphones is quite an old technique. Regards Alex P.S. It's an 80 page thread !!! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
dalethorn Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Alex, I'm wondering how important this is? How many input sources have such high output impedances? The iPod/iphone are much less than 120 ohms, as are most receivers. I remember for a long time the Beyerdynamic DT48 series recommended a 120 ohm or so output impedance. Sennheiser says their HD800's 'flat' response curve was measured freefield, which I think might also have something to do with the 120 ohm output. Then on the flipside, the Meridian DAC made in Britain that sells for $300 USD (pricy for a mini-DAC) started out with a high output impedance on the headphone out, and they were so heavily lobbied for a low output impedance for 'modern' headphones that they capitulated and reissued it with the new spec. Link to comment
sandyk Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Sennheiser says their HD800's 'flat' response curve was measured freefield, which I think might also have something to do with the 120 ohm output. Dale I have seen several reports in that other forum about the HD800 sounding best when fed from a 120 ohms source impedance. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
dalethorn Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Dale - I have seen several reports in that other forum about the HD800 sounding best when fed from a 120 ohms source impedance.Alex I'm glad to see these posts because this information tends to get pushed aside with the ongoing avalanche of i-devices and smartphones and fashion headphones. Link to comment
sandyk Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Dale That garbage from Nwavguy about all headphones should be fed from a very low impedance, hasn't helped either. Even the very conservative Solderdude disagrees with him on this issue. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Gregor Samsa Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I'm glad you learned a lot. By not revealing which headphone was which, Mr. Olive, this is useless to the rest of us. I certainly haven't heard everything, but I've heard a few. So far, Audez'e blows everything else into the weeds. Auctioneer: How much do I hear?[br]Audience member: That\'s metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?[br] — The Firesign Theatre, [br] Don\'t Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers Link to comment
dalethorn Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Dale - That garbage from Nwavguy about all headphones should be fed from a very low impedance, hasn't helped either. Even the very conservative Solderdude disagrees with him on this issue.Alex NwAvGuy doesn't get much love beyond his amp design for many of the newer headphones with lower impedances. But since the classic designs and measurements done by Sennheiser, Beyer and others are being ignored by the fashion set today, most people can't connect the dots. It will be most interesting to see how this topic runs, and whether the AES people will address these points. Link to comment
mav52 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Headphones, some work for some and some don't. Only the ears know not to mention as with anything audio a good match up with a headphone amp.. Nice write up. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
sandyk Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 One thing that many people seem to agree on , is that headphones with the flattest frequency response up to 10kHz, and no huge dips or peaks below 200Hz usually sound best. The Stax SR507 is a good example. I have enlarged and tidied up the original graph a little. Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
dalethorn Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Seeing that graph immediately made me think of the Stax SR009 curve, and a couple of the planar headphone curves. Most of the dynamic headphone curves don't look similar to that, as measured by the popular sites anyway. Link to comment
Kiwi2 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 One thing that many people seem to agree on , is that headphones with the flattest frequency response up to 10kHz, and no huge dips or peaks below 200Hz usually sound best. And you would assume that this applies to loudspeakers in a room as well. Link to comment
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