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Controlling hardwired Multi-room audio zones via mobile app


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The home I just moved into is already wired for stereo sound in 6 different rooms, and I have the corresponding speaker wire coming out to one centralized location (each of the 6 zones having separate stereo wire).

 

I want to:

 

1) Locate the source of my music at that centralized location.

2) Control audio playback in the 6 zones via a mobile app.

3) Have independent playback in each zone, and play multiple zones at once (either same audio or different)

4) Do the above with the minimal amount of new equipment/cost

 

Current Setup/Equipment:

 

I currently have just a 2-channel hifi stereo setup for playing lossless music files, described below:

 

External HDD hosting music files> Windows 7 PC running JRiver> MusicHall DAC> Rega Mira Amp> 2 Rega Speakers

 

I use JRiver Media center as my front-end and would prefer to do all of the above in JRiver, but would be fine with using different software/app to control/host playback of the music to the 6 zones.

 

Can anyone here provide me with some insight/suggestions? I have called a few home stereo consultants and retailers such as crutchfield/best buy but all they do is push the sonos stuff, which is really not a great fit for me.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

HiFi: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > UltraRendu > Schitt Eitr > MusicHall 25.3 DAC > Rega Mira3 Amp > Rega RS5 Floorstanders.  

Whole-house Audio: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > Windows 7 form-factor PC > ESI Gigaport HD+ > Russound 850MC Amp > Paradigm in-Ceiling speakers.

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What quality do you require - I assume we're talking in-ceiling speakers?

 

Given that, add a multi-channel output card to your computer, attach each pair of channels to a stereo amp or a multi-channel amp such as Rotel's RMB1506 (think that's the correct model) and the speakers to that.

 

Gizmo or jremote should control it.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Thanks for your reply. Yes, in-ceiling speakers and I do not require anything near bit-perfect, although it would certainly be nice. I use JRemote now and love it, but I was not aware of it being able to control multiple zones independently.

 

Are you saying that JRemote or Gizmo can play one song in zone 1, and another in zone 2, and another in zone 3, AND if I want, group all zones together in order to play same in all zones? Is this possible?

 

I just found Audio|Acadia, which looks ideal, but they are in beta right now.

 

Thanks again!

HiFi: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > UltraRendu > Schitt Eitr > MusicHall 25.3 DAC > Rega Mira3 Amp > Rega RS5 Floorstanders.  

Whole-house Audio: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > Windows 7 form-factor PC > ESI Gigaport HD+ > Russound 850MC Amp > Paradigm in-Ceiling speakers.

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I actually don't know if jremote will control multiple zones. But I know JRiver will play to multiple zones so I assumed the control app would do it.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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What quality do you require - I assume we're talking in-ceiling speakers?

 

Given that, add a multi-channel output card to your computer, attach each pair of channels to a stereo amp or a multi-channel amp such as Rotel's RMB1506 (think that's the correct model) and the speakers to that.

 

Gizmo or jremote should control it.

 

Eloise

 

 

One more question for you: I have the PC connected to an external DAC via USB for my 2-channel setup. The DAC has SPDIF and USB input (See pic of DAC's rear below). Any way I could push the audio through this DAC for the 6 home zones, and continue to use the DAC for my 2-channel setup as well? Maybe by splitting the RCA outs, or some other way?

 

da.jpg

HiFi: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > UltraRendu > Schitt Eitr > MusicHall 25.3 DAC > Rega Mira3 Amp > Rega RS5 Floorstanders.  

Whole-house Audio: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > Windows 7 form-factor PC > ESI Gigaport HD+ > Russound 850MC Amp > Paradigm in-Ceiling speakers.

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I am looking to do the same thing in a house I'm currently building. I have not tried it, but I agree that J River appears to have the capability to provide separate streams to each zone. My question is if you would need multiple USP ports and a separate DAC for each zone? If so, how could you modify one of the CAPS designs to accomplish this, or would it be a mistake to do so?

 

I intend to build a CAPS server primarily for my main system, but would like to drive the other zones as well when I entertain or want indoor/outdoor music.

1) Selah Audio Fedele Speakers (Revel in ceiling surrounds) QNAP TS-251 NAS accessed w/ a Ruku Ultra through SPDIF ipurifier into a Marantz SR7008 A/V receiver.

2) Freya + preamp, Hypex NC400 Amp, Zaph L18 Speakers, Martin Logan Dynamo sub-woofer

Bluesound Node 2 and Pro-Ject Expression w/ AT440mlb.

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One more question for you: I have the PC connected to an external DAC via USB for my 2-channel setup. The DAC has SPDIF and USB input (See pic of DAC's rear below). Any way I could push the audio through this DAC for the 6 home zones, and continue to use the DAC for my 2-channel setup as well? Maybe by splitting the RCA outs, or some other way?

You can only connect your DAC for multiple zones if you are happy to play the same music in each zone.

 

Given that you said you wanted the option for different music in each zone, this is what I would look at doing - you will probably need to do your own research and experimentation as this is more a basic idea than a fully fledged plan...

 

First, get yourself a Rotel RMB1512 (£2000) or 2x RMB1506 (£600 each) amplifiers. If you're happy to buy second hand the older RMB1066 or RMB966 would be other options and other manufacturers have similar amplifiers. Even 6x 2channel power amplifiers would be fine though obviously they will take more space.

 

Now, on an assumption that you have a closet where all the equipment can be located, I would build (or buy) a new computer with something like a i5 processor in a standard case. Ensure it has 2x PCI slot - this is why you need a full sized computer not a small form factor such as the CAPS. I would think you should be able to get this for £600 or so. Add enough storage to this for all your music.

 

Add to the computer an M-Audio Delta 1010LT card (£200) - this provides 4 stereo outputs. If you truly needs independent output for all 6 zones you'll need 2 of these or you may be able to use the likely inbuilt audio for 2 zones and the M-Audio card for the other zones.

 

Finally, I would leave your main room / DAC as independent. You can access the same J.River library as the multi-zone system.

 

J.River Media Centre controlled with Gizmo (Android) or JRemote (iOS) should control it all.

 

I am looking to do the same thing in a house I'm currently building. I have not tried it, but I agree that J River appears to have the capability to provide separate streams to each zone. My question is if you would need multiple USP ports and a separate DAC for each zone? If so, how could you modify one of the CAPS designs to accomplish this, or would it be a mistake to do so?

 

I intend to build a CAPS server primarily for my main system, but would like to drive the other zones as well when I entertain or want indoor/outdoor music.

You could I guess connect a multi-channel USB DAC, but my advise would be to separate the main zone from the multi-zone system as I described above

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Thanks for the reply. This sounds like an excellent approach.

1) Selah Audio Fedele Speakers (Revel in ceiling surrounds) QNAP TS-251 NAS accessed w/ a Ruku Ultra through SPDIF ipurifier into a Marantz SR7008 A/V receiver.

2) Freya + preamp, Hypex NC400 Amp, Zaph L18 Speakers, Martin Logan Dynamo sub-woofer

Bluesound Node 2 and Pro-Ject Expression w/ AT440mlb.

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By the time you do all this, cost and time wise, wouldn't you be better off putting in a dedicated all in one solution? Say something from Control4? Or if you want something better on the audio front something like Autonomics mms.5a? This also handles 24/192 to each zone and iCloud

 

If I was starting my multiroom set up again (I currently have Sonos), I'd pull speaker wire to a central point like you have right now, but I'd go with something like the Autonomic. I think it will only do 5 zones, but its way more likely to have better WAF IMHO... Co-ordinating 6 independant zones can get kinda complicated..Just a thought :)

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Control 4 is a fairly closed system and Autonomics appears to only be available through dealers, making any DIY difficult. The Autonomics mms.5a looks like a good solution, but since it appears to be over $4k, the multiple computer/CAPS approach is probably less less costly--depending on the cost of amplification.

1) Selah Audio Fedele Speakers (Revel in ceiling surrounds) QNAP TS-251 NAS accessed w/ a Ruku Ultra through SPDIF ipurifier into a Marantz SR7008 A/V receiver.

2) Freya + preamp, Hypex NC400 Amp, Zaph L18 Speakers, Martin Logan Dynamo sub-woofer

Bluesound Node 2 and Pro-Ject Expression w/ AT440mlb.

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I'm not discouraging you to try a DIY multiroom approach. All I'm saying is don't underestimate the cost. Both in multiple DIY parts, but more importantly DIY labor "opportunity cost". Yeh. If its a hobby, go for it. But remember multi room audio isn't easy and more importantly, it isn't easy to make it "easy" to use :)

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Of course the other option is to buy a pile of Sonos Zone players. This will probably be cheaper and the Sonos iOS and Android apps are well made.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

Link to comment

There is another way.

 

I'm running a system with three different soundcards - connected to a 6 channel amplifier with stereo sound in three different rooms. I can direct any soundsource (e.g. streamed internetradio, youtube, spotify, VLC etc) to any of the cards or to all the cards simultaneously. I can control levels individually. I also control those functions from iPad, iPhone, Android phone and other computers.

 

My setup: Ubuntu 12.04 LTS with PulseAudio and Teamviewer.

OK, the remote is actually just a remote control of the computer so it's not very elegant.

 

Stefan

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With the various configurations suggested in this thread alone, I just can't think of any reason to purchase a bunch of Sonos boxes (or apple TVs for that matter).

 

Eloise, those m-audio cards look very interesting and I may just end up getting that 1010LT card. The fact that they offer ableton live lite free license with all their cards is also pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure I now know what configuration I'll need, just a matter of deciding on parts and assembling.

 

I'll need a total of 12 Channels of Audio to get the stereo sound in te 6 different zones, from my pc. My main challenge is my windows 7 htpc is a small micro mobo in a small case so I'll have to figure out how to encase an additional sound card in the mix. I'm pretty sure I can use that m-audio 1010lt card which will get me 8 channels plus 2 more I have on board. That's 5 zones total which will be enough for now.

 

Connect the above to a 12 channel whole house audio type power amp such as those by Russound, rotel, etc, connect stereo speaker wire to amp, and control playback via the windows7 pc with jriver or audio|acacia (both of which seems to be capable of controlling multiple zones), and with a mobile app to boot. Audio|Acacia looks awesome and I'm going to be getting access to their app via their beta program this week and will be sure to come back here with an update.

 

While I agree that purchasing 6 Sonos or Apple TV devices would be easier and more plug and play, it is not the ideal solution, and not the cost effective solution. My solution will be far more practical and streamlined (and cheape) provided I can successfully implement the above.

HiFi: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > UltraRendu > Schitt Eitr > MusicHall 25.3 DAC > Rega Mira3 Amp > Rega RS5 Floorstanders.  

Whole-house Audio: Windows 7 Machine running roon core > NetGear switch > Windows 7 form-factor PC > ESI Gigaport HD+ > Russound 850MC Amp > Paradigm in-Ceiling speakers.

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I have been chasing this solution myself for several years and ended up with the Sonos solution. It sure is convenient and works bullet proof. Can't play anything 24-bit but for casual around the house listening it is more than up to the task.

 

I feel your pain though as I went through a phase of speaker wires and central distribution but was never quite able to get it right.

 

Good luck! I will be interested in your final solution.

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  • 1 month later...

I too have been struggling to find the same solution for over a year as well.One of the hardest parts is the syncing of the same music in multiple zones, and then the independent streams.

 

Independent zones requires some type of matrix or multichannel sound card

 

I've tried to get an answer from jriver on the syncing of sounds cards, but no avail. Jriver can I think assign independent streams to independent channels of the M1010LT, but can also split a 7.1 into 4 zones. However, I'm not convinced that you can sync the same song to multiple channels, even on the same card, and most likely not to separate cards.

 

Some other points for you are;

1. Sonos works really well, independent or synced songs to multiple zones, great app, streaming services as well as CD quality ripped music, but $350 a zone un-amplified, $500 amplified, so not cheap, but the next step up is a Russound, Nilles, Nuvo type system which >$2-4k

 

2. You could use a casatunes 6 channel sound card, if you can still find it. They've stop advertizing it on their website. Independent streams, or same in sync, streaming services, and good app.

 

3. A multi-channel controller, such as MC-66 with an 6 ch amp or MCA66-integrated amp, such as from HTD. They have a good rep on avsforums.com. The PC could be the source and meets above requirements. However you would have 2 apps, one for music browsing (jrive apps) and another for zone and volume, not the worst, but manageable. You also step up to a control software such as irule/ demopad/command fusion such that you create a single app to control the source and HTD zones, you could still use jriver for the library and they're playback app for playback.

 

 

4. ATV's can pull independent streams to each of their zones, Cd quality (or at least at 48khz), However they have to be local, so not really a solution.

 

 

capall

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  • 3 months later...

Learned a lot from reading this thread. Thanks! I'm wiring a new house too and looking for the simplest most elegant solution. I have a few curve-balls to throw at you all to see where you hit it!

 

So I have a new house that I'm building, and I have a few major requirements:

 

a) A wife and 2 kids that hate complicated technology

b) 4 audio / visual zones

c) I really can't stand in-ceiling speakers *only*, I already own my own powered subwoofers. Each zone will have a sub

d) Primary sources are Apple TV and Pandora.

e) Music selection controlled via iPhone / iPad / MAC. I want my wife and kids to DJ from their own via their iPhones, either music on the iPhone or Pandora, via Airplay. It's simple and they know how to do this already.

f) In each zone with audio, I'll have a TV monitor connected to the ATV to display photos (I'm a photographer) and control audio from these monitors by accessing the ATV menu.

g) I like to play home movies from the Apple TVs, so need to make sure the audio and video are in synch

 

The basic strategy I have is that I want to use Sonos to control the audio zones, but not to select what music to play; I want to use the Apple TV or Airplay to control what music is playing, and have synchronized video output from the Apple TV

 

So my working thesis / solution is:

 

1) Central AV receiver where I connect the Apple TV. Audio sources is the Apple TV

2) Sonos to control the audio zones (Apple TV is the audio source)

3) Airplay for the family members to DJ; they will connect to the Apple TV's, and be able to control the audio zones with the Sonos app

4) Speakers (and subwoofers?) connect to the Sonos Amps

5) 4 HDMI outputs for the monitors to display the Apple TV output

6) Universal remotes to control the Apple TV navigation (I do this already in my existing home, works great)

 

Questions:

 

- Will this work? This is basically using Sonos for audio distribution, rather than playback. Is it overkill?

- For the wife and kids, they know how to control Apple TV's already via Airplay; easy. But does the Sonos app work easily to simply control audio zones for them?

- For cables, the most efficient way to wire this is centrally, all audio to the Sonos device for audio, and HDMI to the Apple TV monitors?

- Will my existing subwoofers "just work" with Sonos?

- The HDMI cable might need to run a long way, about 50 feet, is that OK?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give!

 

- Mark

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Learned a lot from reading this thread. Thanks! I'm wiring a new house too and looking for the simplest most elegant solution. I have a few curve-balls to throw at you all to see where you hit it!

 

So I have a new house that I'm building, and I have a few major requirements:

 

a) A wife and 2 kids that hate complicated technology

b) 4 audio / visual zones

c) I really can't stand in-ceiling speakers *only*, I already own my own powered subwoofers. Each zone will have a sub

d) Primary sources are Apple TV and Pandora.

e) Music selection controlled via iPhone / iPad / MAC. I want my wife and kids to DJ from their own via their iPhones, either music on the iPhone or Pandora, via Airplay. It's simple and they know how to do this already.

f) In each zone with audio, I'll have a TV monitor connected to the ATV to display photos (I'm a photographer) and control audio from these monitors by accessing the ATV menu.

g) I like to play home movies from the Apple TVs, so need to make sure the audio and video are in synch

 

The basic strategy I have is that I want to use Sonos to control the audio zones, but not to select what music to play; I want to use the Apple TV or Airplay to control what music is playing, and have synchronized video output from the Apple TV

 

So my working thesis / solution is:

 

1) Central AV receiver where I connect the Apple TV. Audio sources is the Apple TV

2) Sonos to control the audio zones (Apple TV is the audio source)

3) Airplay for the family members to DJ; they will connect to the Apple TV's, and be able to control the audio zones with the Sonos app

4) Speakers (and subwoofers?) connect to the Sonos Amps

5) 4 HDMI outputs for the monitors to display the Apple TV output

6) Universal remotes to control the Apple TV navigation (I do this already in my existing home, works great)

 

Questions:

 

- Will this work? This is basically using Sonos for audio distribution, rather than playback. Is it overkill?

- For the wife and kids, they know how to control Apple TV's already via Airplay; easy. But does the Sonos app work easily to simply control audio zones for them?

- For cables, the most efficient way to wire this is centrally, all audio to the Sonos device for audio, and HDMI to the Apple TV monitors?

- Will my existing subwoofers "just work" with Sonos?

- The HDMI cable might need to run a long way, about 50 feet, is that OK?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give!

 

- Mark

 

Love that you have a wife and kids that "hate complicated technology" yet they all have iPhones! To a number of my customers complicated IS iPhones!

 

Looks to me like you are on the right track.

David

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The home I just moved into is already wired for stereo sound in 6 different rooms, and I have the corresponding speaker wire coming out to one centralized location (each of the 6 zones having separate stereo wire).

 

I want to:

 

1) Locate the source of my music at that centralized location.

2) Control audio playback in the 6 zones via a mobile app.

3) Have independent playback in each zone, and play multiple zones at once (either same audio or different)

4) Do the above with the minimal amount of new equipment/cost

 

Current Setup/Equipment:

 

I currently have just a 2-channel hifi stereo setup for playing lossless music files, described below:

 

External HDD hosting music files> Windows 7 PC running JRiver> MusicHall DAC> Rega Mira Amp> 2 Rega Speakers

 

I use JRiver Media center as my front-end and would prefer to do all of the above in JRiver, but would be fine with using different software/app to control/host playback of the music to the 6 zones.

 

Can anyone here provide me with some insight/suggestions? I have called a few home stereo consultants and retailers such as crutchfield/best buy but all they do is push the sonos stuff, which is really not a great fit for me.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

Biggest thing you are going to need in this is a multi input, multi room amplifier. The Russound R1250MC fits your needs perfectly. I have not used one but I would imagine there are multi room audio cards for computers that could feed that.

 

That is the only way you are going to have differnt streams playing in different rooms at the same time unless, as has been mentioned already, you look at the SONOS solution which is a superb product line in so many ways. The cheapest alternative as far as sources would have to be Apple TVs or Apple AirPort Express's for each room although they do not snych any where NEARLY as good as the SONOS players do.

 

The other alternative is a multi room preamp with a dedicated music server that has enough streams (outputs) for you. None of these are free but you will find that multi room (with different source for every room) is not cheap.

David

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That's really helpful, David! Thanks!

 

So in this scenario, I don't need Sonos at all, right? But how do I allow the family to select which zones are active? The Russound doesn't look like it even has a remote control? I want my daughter to be able to say "Turn music on the deck," then use her iPhone to choose a song, and she's off.

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That's really helpful, David! Thanks!

 

So in this scenario, I don't need Sonos at all, right? But how do I allow the family to select which zones are active? The Russound doesn't look like it even has a remote control? I want my daughter to be able to say "Turn music on the deck," then use her iPhone to choose a song, and she's off.

 

Which scenario are you referring to? In your last post you list Sonos as one of your sources unless you are referring to DLA123 and his system.

David

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My apologies, I mixed them up - I thought your reply to DLA123 was for me. But, in fact, that's another option for me that I'm starting to think about - simply getting a multi-room amplifier INSTEAD of Sonus. What is the downside to that, instead of Sonus?

 

You need a source.

 

With Sonos as a source you can choose to use as many Connects you'd like into the Russound.

 

The point is, you need both a Multi channel amplifier to run the rooms of speakers you have AND you need a source, whether this a computer with Multi room outputs or one or more Sonos units or an iPod on a dock, etc.

 

You could use a few Apple AirPort Express's into the Russound but without a preamp I wouldn't recommend it as they can accidently have their volume all the way up b whatever device they are AirPlaying too and poof, there goes your speakers and most likely your amp too!

David

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Ah - I see the confusion... I meant to say: can I take out the Sonus and just use my Pioneer Elite receiver as the source?

 

That is:

 

Apple TV -> Pioneer Elite -> Russound -> Speakers

 

So my family just uses Airplay on their iPhones to select which song they want to play. Easy.

 

The question I have left, however, is, without Sonos, how do they select which room the audio plays in? They can control the volume on their iPhone, but how do they turn the music off in one zone and on in the other? Does the Russound, for example, have a remote control that controls the zones that are on / off?

 

It seems the other option is to get 4 Sonos:AMP WITHOUT the Russound, and use the Airplay as the source, and the Sonos remote to control volume, etc. Or, of course, the family could just stick with DJ'ing via the Sonos system, if they got used to that. So this would look like this:

 

Apple TV -> Pioneer Elite -> Sonos -> Speakers

 

Each Sonos:AMP is $500, so 4x$500 is about the same price as the Russound!

 

So I guess my remaining question about the Russound option is how to easily control the audio zones.

 

Thanks for your continued help!

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