Linux for Audiophiles

[Krisbee]

Downloading from lubuntu | simplify your computer

 

 

Can you please tell how to Update lubuntu with a Low-latency kernel please

 

Ok, I don't have Lubunut loaded on my system at the moment, so this will be from memory.

 

You need to use the "synaptic software manager" to update or install additional software pakages. But before you do anything else, the first thing you should do on any new install, is to update the system. Instructions should pop up the first time you use synaptic. It will ask you to presss the "reload" option, before you press anything else.

 

Once you system is updated you can use "synaptic" to search for the "low-latency" kernel and mark it for installation. Reboot the system and you can type "uname -a" in terminal to check you're now running the new kernel.

 

If in doubt, there should be futher instructions on how to use "synaptic" on Lubuntu website.

 

I'll reload Lubuntu now in a virtual machine just in case you have further question which I might help with.

[Richard Dale]

Good, but really, do me a favour, just install something like Lubuntu. Update it with the "low-latency" kernel and install something like deadbeef and configure it for bit-perfect playback as shown here:

 

Bit Perfect Audio from Linux

 

I thought the 'Linux for Audiophiles' distribution that is the topic of this thread, has a low latency kernel, uses deadbeef as a music player and it set up for bit perfect playback out of the box.

[Krisbee]

I thought the 'Linux for Audiophiles' distribution that is the topic of this thread, has a low latency kernel, uses deadbeef as a music player and it set up for bit perfect playback out of the box.

 

Maybe, but that's not the point. AP-Linux also promtes the idea that you need a fully pre-emptive RT kernel and jackd for "best " quality audio playback which I believe is a mistaken idea. Hence I've asked Juliocat to compare it to a standard Linux distro.

[juliocat]

Thanks a lot, i will report later.

[Krisbee]

Juliocat,

 

In Lubunut use menu option "system tools" , then select "synaptic package manager" . To update your system, press "reload" . "mark for update" and then "apply" in the synapatic pacakge manager. To install a low-latecny kernel, search for the "linux-lowlatency" metapackage. Right-click and mark it for installation. Press "apply". After the new packages have been installed , then just reboot.

 

Deadbeef is not in the Lubuntu repositories, but you can downloaded a compatible package from here: http://deadbeef.sourceforge.net/download.html

 

Just double-click on the dowlnloadee deb file, enter your password, and it should install. Configure deadbeef as per the headfi link.

[Richard Dale]

Maybe, but that's not the point. AP-Linux also promtes the idea that you need a fully pre-emptive RT kernel and jackd for "best " quality audio playback which I believe is a mistaken idea. Hence I've asked Juliocat to compare it to a standard Linux distro.

 

I don't have an opinion of a stock Linux Kernel vs Low Latency vs hard real time but I'm interested in experiments to find out which is best for audio. I think it's great the this new customized Linux gives an easy way for people to experiment and compare with other Linux setups.

 

What disadvantages would a RT kernel have over a low latency kernel for music reproduction? I would expect a RT kernel to have poorer throughput for mixed loads, but where you want to optimise for a single music player process, I can't think of any drawbacks. Maybe there is no point because a 'low latency' kernel is easily good enough for our use case. But it might be that 'in theory it shouldn't make any difference', but that often happens in audio and when people listen they find that something that shouldn't make a difference in theory, appears to make a difference in practice.

 

The RaspFi distribution wants to use a RT Linux kernel because it might be useful to work round some of the problems with the USB driver. I think I read the Raspberry Pi needs to respond to USB interrupts within 8ms otherwise bad things will happen.

[Jud]

I don't have an opinion of a stock Linux Kernel vs Low Latency vs hard real time but I'm interested in experiments to find out which is best for audio. I think it's great the this new customized Linux gives an easy way for people to experiment and compare with other Linux setups.

 

What disadvantages would a RT kernel have over a low latency kernel for music reproduction? I would expect a RT kernel to have poorer throughput for mixed loads, but where you want to optimise for a single music player process, I can't think of any drawbacks. Maybe there is no point because a 'low latency' kernel is easily good enough for our use case. But it might be that 'in theory it shouldn't make any difference', but that often happens in audio and when people listen they find that something that shouldn't make a difference in theory, appears to make a difference in practice.

 

The RaspFi distribution wants to use a RT Linux kernel because it might be useful to work round some of the problems with the USB driver. I think I read the Raspberry Pi needs to respond to USB interrupts within 8ms otherwise bad things will happen.

 

Think of audiophile players. Many of them minimize system use synchronous with audio playback through techniques such as use of memory buffers. When you have a real time kernel, to me this could mean various system processes would tend to be going on at the same 'real time' as audio playback.

 

But I'm no tech guy, so what I just said could be completely wrong.

[Krisbee]

Richard,

 

There is a very long thread over at diyAudio where linux devleoper "phofman" to my mind conclusively de-bunks the idea that you need a RT kernel etc for "best" quality audio playback in Linux using ALSA etc.

 

Linux Audio the way to go!? - diyAudio

 

Both PCI soundcards and USB audio are discussed. You ask if a RT kernel can have a disadvantage, "phofman" argues that is could and in anycase, as you suggest there is absolutely no point. Of course you are free to experiment and I can offer a few other refs outide of AP-Linux if you wish to pursue this.

 

To mind the raspberry pi has a fatal flaw as regards its use as a dedicated audio server, namely the poor hardware implementation of ethernet and USB. As yet I've not seen anyone trying to address this with just a preemptive kernel that allows booting with threadirq and using rtirq-int etc to tweak interrupt repsonses.

[Jud]

To mind the raspberry pi has a fatal flaw as regards its use as a dedicated audio server, namely the poor hardware implementation of ethernet and USB.

 

I know at least one person very knowledgeable about Linux audio who agrees.

[juliocat]

Juliocat,

 

In Lubunut use menu option "system tools" , then select "synaptic package manager" . To update your system, press "reload" . "mark for update" and then "apply" in the synapatic pacakge manager. To install a low-latecny kernel, search for the "linux-lowlatency" metapackage. Right-click and mark it for installation. Press "apply". After the new packages have been installed , then just reboot.

 

Deadbeef is not in the Lubuntu repositories, but you can downloaded a compatible package from here: DeaDBeeF - Ultimate Music Player For GNU/Linux

 

Just double-click on the dowlnloadee deb file, enter your password, and it should install. Configure deadbeef as per the headfi link.

 

Chris

 

I just install everything but i have a question

 

Is there something to check if i'm running on a low-latency kernel ??

[Krisbee]

Chris

 

I just install everything but i have a question

 

Is there something to check if i'm running on a low-latency kernel ??

 

Just open a terminal and type "uname -a" , you should see lowlatency in the kernel name ,e.g.

 

Linux chris-VirtualBox 3.5.0-22-lowlatency #21-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Sat Jan 12 15:36:50 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

[juliocat]

This is what a have done

 

1 Install Lubuntu

2 Install Low Latency Kernel

3 Install x4vnc (remote control)

4 Install M2tech Evo driver

5 Install Deadbeef

 

The sound is very similar to what a hear from AP Linux, really hard to tell the diference, but the system is unstable, deadbeef quits in the middle of a song randomly, any suggestions.

[Krisbee]

The sound is very similar to what a hear from AP Linux, really hard to tell the diference

 

Exactly as I would expect. No difference.

 

 

, but the system is unstable, deadbeef quits in the middle of a song randomly, any suggestions.

 

I've never had problems with deadbeef. I would try the "audacious" player that comes with Lubunut to see if it also quits at random.

 

In audacious click on "File" and "preferences" and then pick the right audio output settings. Click on "output plugin perferences" to select your USB audio device for PCM device and mixer device. I'm not sure what you'll need for bit depth. Go for 16bit if playing CD quailty files.

 

 

If audacious also crashes at random, I would begin to suspect the M2tech Evo driver install. What instructions did you follow for this? These should work on Lubuntu:

 

Linux Audio the way to go!? - Page 204 - diyAudio

 

I hope you can get it stable.

[Kilauea50]

Since I have a linux machine, I decided to install lubuntu 12.10 which was extremely smooth and fast. It is so much lighter than straight ubuntu in my experience. Anyway, I can't seem to get gmusicbrowser going but I am VERY impressed with audacious. I installed the M2tech driver from the link above after installing the low latency kernel and it sounds as good as my Mac with A+. Wow, very nice guys. Thanks

 

 

Robin

[juliocat]

I tried with Audacious and everything is OK, i install jack and the sound is better to my ears, definitive better than amarra and audirvana+, the only difference with AP Linux is the procesor use, ap linux use of procesor resources is better, 16% vs 10% so i see the point of the use of a minimal windows manager.

[juliocat]

Since I have a linux machine, I decided to install lubuntu 12.10 which was extremely smooth and fast. It is so much lighter than straight ubuntu in my experience. Anyway, I can't seem to get gmusicbrowser going but I am VERY impressed with audacious. I installed the M2tech driver from the link above after installing the low latency kernel and it sounds as good as my Mac with A+. Wow, very nice guys. Thanks

 

 

Robin

 

Robin

 

Audirvana+ with integer mode is as good as my linux install when i test with my sotm usb, but with my m2tech evo unix is way better, but the driver of the Evo is not integer mode compatible in OSX, so this explains why linux sounds better to me when using the Evo.

[Kilauea50]

Good to know. I haven't experienced integer mode yet and I guess that is why. It is greyed out for me. I just installed deadbeef to check out. This is my first experience with computer music so I am learning but I have been using linux for years. My Mac is my primary but it is nice to know I can use this laptop as well

[cowboy]

All the discussions here are pointing to jitter reducing, anybody compared the linux solution with cPlay and cMP?

 

Just checked the download link for Audiophile linux, the iso is about 1.3G, that seems too fat for a single purpose system.

[Krisbee]

I tried with Audacious and everything is OK, i install jack and the sound is better to my ears, definitive better than amarra and audirvana+, the only difference with AP Linux is the procesor use, ap linux use of procesor resources is better, 16% vs 10% so i see the point of the use of a minimal windows manager.

 

I'm glad you got things working. It's hard to say at this distance why deadbeef was crashing. I can't argue with your ears, but in my experience jack made no difference.

 

We might form a small sample (yourself, Robin and myself), but I think this goes a long way to proving my point that you can great audio SQ out of a standard Linux install with minor effort and certainly don't need an RT kernel and extensive optimisations.

 

To be honest, 16% vs 10% , is not NB and might even look different of another computer. If you really want tro reduce CPU usage to a minimum then install and configure MPD with something like ncmpcpp as the client and run the whole show in text mode. Frankly, I don't think you'll hear a difference.

[Krisbee]

Since I have a linux machine, I decided to install lubuntu 12.10 which was extremely smooth and fast. It is so much lighter than straight ubuntu in my experience. Anyway, I can't seem to get gmusicbrowser going but I am VERY impressed with audacious. I installed the M2tech driver from the link above after installing the low latency kernel and it sounds as good as my Mac with A+. Wow, very nice guys. Thanks

 

 

Robin

 

Which bit of M2tech kit are you using, and did you get deadbeef to work without crashing?

[Krisbee]

All the discussions here are pointing to jitter reducing, anybody compared the linux solution with cPlay and cMP?

 

Just checked the download link for Audiophile linux, the iso is about 1.3G, that seems too fat for a single purpose system.

 

I really wouldn't bother with AP-Linux, just use something like Lubuntu if you wish to try Linux.

 

As a dedicated Liunx user I have little interest in CPaly and cMP. I might be wrong, but possilby only recent converts to Linux might have made a comparison with cPlay and cMP. How does it compare to the typical CAPS Windows software configuration? If CPaly and cMP confine themselves to software optimisation in a Windows environment, and there is no special hardware, no special PSUs, then I'd be surprised if such a system sounded any better than Linux running on the same machine.

[Richard Dale]

Just checked the download link for Audiophile linux, the iso is about 1.3G, that seems too fat for a single purpose system.

 

As the developer of Audiophile Linux has already pointed out, the size of the iso is irrelevant unless you are very short of disk space on your computer. The only thing that matters is how much RAM it takes up at runtime and how mill it uses, and RAM only matters if you don't have enough RAM.

[Kilauea50]

Which bit of M2tech kit are you using, and did you get deadbeef to work without crashing?

 

 

I am using audacious. I have not tried deadbeef yet

[Kilauea50]

For some reason, my cdrom is not detected and I have no clue why. I was getting ready to rip some cd's but this is what I get:

 

mount point /media/cdrom does not exist

 

 

How do I resolve this? Thank you in advance. This is on lubuntu 12.10

[Kilauea50]

Disregard my post above. My cd rom had come unplugged.