Jump to content
IGNORED

Help getting our setup tuned


Ryan21

Recommended Posts

I am new here, and super discouraged right now with the Mac Mini setup we have. Before I get into that though, let me explain my setup so I can get your expert feedback on the best course forward. Keep in mind our goal is ultimate SQ within the realm of a computer (mac mini) server.

 

We are using a 2012 Mac Mini (stock) with a Promise Pegasus R6 setup for music file storage. From the mac mini we go to an Oppo BDP-105 via an AudioQuest Cinnamon Async USB. This allows us to use the Oppo's Sabre DAC which is really good IMHO. From there we go from the Oppo to B&O System 3 via HDMI and from the System 3 to 5 BeoLab 5s over Cat7 ethernet.

 

On the Mac Mini we ripped the files 48kHz/16bit stereo AIFF and use Apple remote app on an iPad to drive the music from server to speaker. Compared to a disc in the Oppo we are talking about 20% less body and dimension to the tracks played from the Mac Mini, the files from the Mini lack range and are a lot flatter, by about 20%... so pretty noticeable.

 

This is our first time with a HiFi setup using a music server like this and I realize iTunes is not doing the files justice. What I need to know is how can we get the files to be closer to the CD, like 95% of the CD?

 

I have looked into Amarra, also swapping the standard HD for SSD in the Mini. What setup could I be forgetting here? There is so much to learn and it is discouraging because we know what the system is capable of and we really want the ease of digital playback from the iPad but the SQ just isn't there.... Help these newbies!

Link to comment

I looked at the BeoLab 5s on the website and it lists "2 x Power Link, 1 x Phono, 2 x Digital SPDIF (PCM 32/44.1/48/88.2kHz), 1 x RS232 for cabled volume synchronisation" I don't see Ethernet on here. Can you explain this setup more?

Main / Office: Home built computer -> Roon Core (Tidal & FLAC) -> Wireless -> Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 -> Dan Clark Audio AEON 2 Noire (On order)

Portable / Travel: iPhone 12 Pro Max -> ALAC or Tidal -> iFi Hip Dac -> Meze 99 Classics or Meze Rai Solo

Link to comment
We use Cat7 and there is a new adapter that allows us to convert from Cat7 to the powerlink.

 

Is this a digital connection? If yes, does this mean then the B&O system is skipping the DAC in the Oppo and sending a digital signal to the speakers and decoding there?

Main / Office: Home built computer -> Roon Core (Tidal & FLAC) -> Wireless -> Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro 3 -> Dan Clark Audio AEON 2 Noire (On order)

Portable / Travel: iPhone 12 Pro Max -> ALAC or Tidal -> iFi Hip Dac -> Meze 99 Classics or Meze Rai Solo

Link to comment

A couple of things you may want to consider.

 

I've read elsewhere that as a BDP the Oppo is awesome but as a USB DAC not so great. Try connecting your Mac Mini directly to the System 3 via SPDIF and see if sound quality improves. If it does, it will tell you that the Oppo's USB implementation is a limiting factor.

 

You also say that you ripped your music to 48kHz/16bit stereo AIFF. I'm not sure why you would re-sample your rips from the native 44.1 kHz but, re-sampling may affect sound quality as well.

Link to comment

That is a good idea, I will get an SPDIF adapter for the Audioquest USB.. any one you recommend? I will re rip the music at 44.1... do you think these could be the weakest points in the system or do you think that using the standard iTunes is causing more issues vs. Amarra or something as a player?

Link to comment
do you think that using the standard iTunes is causing more issues vs. Amarra or something as a player?

 

iTunes wouldn't cause a 20% degradation in quality. I have a feeling that it's the Oppo's USB implementation. Connecting the Mac Mini directly to the System 3 should give us some indication. If it does sound better, then you may want to explore using a USB to SPDIF converter or a different external DAC.

Link to comment

It is odd though because the output from Mac Mini sounds very similar to the output from our Apple TV that is plugged right into the System 3 via HDMI. Which is why we are trying to get around the Apple idea as being the source of the degradation. The music played via the Oppo (CD in the player) sounds stunning and that is being processed via the same Sabre DAC as it is coming in via the USB from the Mac Mini.

Link to comment
From the mac mini we go to an Oppo BDP-105 via an AudioQuest Cinnamon Async USB. This allows us to use the Oppo's Sabre DAC which is really good IMHO. From there we go from the Oppo to B&O System 3 via HDMI and from the System 3 to 5 BeoLab 5s over Cat7 ethernet.

 

Another thing I should mention, if you connect the Oppo to the System 3 via HDMI, the DAC in the System 3 is actually doing the decoding. You would have to connect the Oppo to the System 3 using the RCA analog interconnects in order to use the DAC in the Oppo.

Link to comment
The music played via the Oppo (CD in the player) sounds stunning and that is being processed via the same Sabre DAC as it is coming in via the USB from the Mac Mini.

 

If you're connected via HDMI, the DAC in your System 3 is actually doing the decoding as digital is streamed from the Oppo to the DAC in the System 3 where it is decoded and converted to analog.

 

In order to use the DAC in the Oppo, you will have to connect it using the RCA analog outputs.

Link to comment
The music played via the Oppo (CD in the player) sounds stunning and that is being processed via the same Sabre DAC as it is coming in via the USB from the Mac Mini.

 

There are different circuits within the Oppo player. Music played from CD is using a different internal circuit than the music input from the USB and would explain why they sound different.

Link to comment
If you're connected via HDMI, the DAC in your System 3 is actually doing the decoding as digital is streamed from the Oppo to the DAC in the System 3 where it is decoded and converted to analog.

 

In order to use the DAC in the Oppo, you will have to connect it using the RCA analog outputs.

 

Sorry that is all wrong.

The Beolab 5 is a digital active speaker, so it should be fed S/PDIF through Cat7 from the System 3.

Honestly I don't see what the Oppo is needed for other than degrading the digital signal.

 

Awesome system by the way!

 

It is very much like my own system:

 

- You use a System 3 where I use a Weiss AFI1 DDC

- You use S/PDIF through Cat7 where I use AES/EBU (same protocol, different cables and voltages)

- You use a Beolab 5 where I use Genelec 8260 / 8250

 

Go figure!

Promise Pegasus2 R6 12TB -> Thunderbolt2 ->
MacBook Pro M1 Pro -> Motu 8D -> AES/EBU ->
Main: Genelec 5 x 8260A + 2 x 8250 + 2 x 8330 + 7271A sub
Boat: Genelec 8010 + 5040 sub

Hifiman Sundara, Sennheiser PXC 550 II
Blog: “Confessions of a DigiPhile”

Link to comment

The Oppo is used as our CD player/ Bluray Player and it does very very well. The audio from it is clean, punchy and has lovely range. The Sabre DAC is quite good. Our Mac Mini is going through it as well because we have used all the connections on the system 3, and because the Oppo has a dedicated USB Audio port that goes into the Sabre. After hearing music from the Oppo (from CD) I can't see it being the weak link, I see the stock mac mini being that. We are going to try to connect the mini to the System 3 directly but I can't really see that being the issue. I am thinking that iTunes is partially at fault here, but as we haven't installed Amarra yet, it is an assumption, once we get the Amarra trial installed I should have a better idea.

 

The BeoLab 5s are the best speakers I have ever heard, not cheap but they are simply outstanding. We watched Master & Commander on them and I was a whole new movie to our ears. If we can't get the Mini to work as a Hifi server we are considering the BeoSound 5 as an option.

Link to comment
The Oppo is used as our CD player/ Bluray Player and it does very very well. The audio from it is clean, punchy and has lovely range. The Sabre DAC is quite good. Our Mac Mini is going through it as well because we have used all the connections on the system 3, and because the Oppo has a dedicated USB Audio port that goes into the Sabre. After hearing music from the Oppo (from CD) I can't see it being the weak link, I see the stock mac mini being that. We are going to try to connect the mini to the System 3 directly but I can't really see that being the issue. I am thinking that iTunes is partially at fault here, but as we haven't installed Amarra yet, it is an assumption, once we get the Amarra trial installed I should have a better idea.

 

The BeoLab 5s are the best speakers I have ever heard, not cheap but they are simply outstanding. We watched Master & Commander on them and I was a whole new movie to our ears. If we can't get the Mini to work as a Hifi server we are considering the BeoSound 5 as an option.

 

Nice system there Ryan21. Daren F and Digi Pete are both right and I wouldn't say that the Mac Mini is the limiting factor.

 

in Post #14 Daren F. said the most important thing with the Oppo: you have to use the analog RCA (or XLR) outs to use the SABRE DAC. If you are sending the data out of the OPPO via HDMI or digital you are not using the SABRE for the Digital to Analog Conversion. To use the SABRE in the OPPO the signal must leave the OPPO via analog connections. You may also want to find out if the System 3 does any analog to digital conversion of its own.

 

If the signal leaves the OPPO via digital connection then DigiPete is right. The OPPO is only an extra piece in the audio path. To reduce a step and go all digital, connect the Mini to your System 3 via digital toslink with mini adapter.

 

Another experiment you can try (to see if the Mini IS the weak link) is put some FLAC or WAV files on usb flash drive or hard drive and connect it directly to the OPPO and see how it sounds. Again, analog outs from OPPO must be used to use the SABRE DAC.

 

For reference, I have an OPPO BDP 95 and I can hear a striking difference using the OPPO analog outs vs. HDMI out to my receiver. When the HDMI out is used, the DAC in my AVR decodes the digital signal, not the SABRE in the OPPO.

 

iTunes is only limiting in the fact it doesn't auto switch sample rates. You may benefit from player software, but you need to sort out what is happening between source and speakers before you spend too much $ and time on configuring software. BTW, IMHO I'd try Audirvana Plus before committing to Amarra.

Link to comment

No it certainly won't, but the conversion to 16/48K probably won't sound as good as the native rate from a CD (16/44.1). May sound dramatically worse in fact.

 

If you really want to up-sample CD quality music, up-sample to 88.2 or 176.4K.

 

I also agree with trying optical output from the Mac Mini, but I think the Oppo will do a much better job as a DAC with the correct sample rate. Also, try using optical from the Mac Mini to the Oppo as well.

 

There are so many variables that could be causing this, you will need to do some troubleshooting to figure out what exactly is going on.

 

Using Amarra, Pure Music, BitPerfect, or Audirvana+ might help you find the best configuration.,

 

-Paul

 

 

iTunes wouldn't cause a 20% degradation in quality. I have a feeling that it's the Oppo's USB implementation. Connecting the Mac Mini directly to the System 3 should give us some indication. If it does sound better, then you may want to explore using a USB to SPDIF converter or a different external DAC.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

Link to comment

I'm sorry but you are all still missing the central point here:

 

Beolab 5 is a digital active speaker

Any analogue input will be digitized before it is amplified inside the Beolab 5, so you should avoid analogue signals like the plague!

It doesn't matter how awesome or fantastic you find the DAC in the Oppo, it must newer be used with the Beolab 5.

 

 

 

A little note on iTune add-on programs - they actually perform to equally vital tasks:

 

a) Ajust the set sampling frequency automatically to avoid resampling in iTunes.

b) Buffer the song in memory and play it from there to reduce the jitter.

Promise Pegasus2 R6 12TB -> Thunderbolt2 ->
MacBook Pro M1 Pro -> Motu 8D -> AES/EBU ->
Main: Genelec 5 x 8260A + 2 x 8250 + 2 x 8330 + 7271A sub
Boat: Genelec 8010 + 5040 sub

Hifiman Sundara, Sennheiser PXC 550 II
Blog: “Confessions of a DigiPhile”

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...