Best way for iTunes and Apple TV to output high resolution music files?

[Marcello Povoa]

I am currently listening to music at home using this set-up:

 

 

• My iTunes library ( Win 7 64bit ) of 758 CDs converted to Apple Lossless music files is in my home office, and it is routed/connected to an Apple TV 3 in the living room through an Ethernet cable.
  
• The Apple TV 3 is connected to a DAC Moon 100D through an optical cable
  
• The DAC is connected to an integrated amplifier Cambridge Audio Azur 815A which outputs the analogical sound to the speakers.
  

 

I want to have best possible sound quality, but as far as I understand I have some limitations on this set-up:

 

1) Apple TV outputs everything at 16 bit/48 kHz (not bit perfect and not 'CD quality' 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz). So, even if I have higher quality music files being served from iTunes, it will be down sampled to 16 bit/48 kHz.

 

2) ITunes does NOT support 24bit recording and all Apple Lossless music files are automatically converted back to 16-Bit by iTunes

 

So here are my questions:

 

 

• Can I play 24bit music files using iTunes directly from the PC to the DAC ( NOT using Apple TV) ?
  
• If yes, which formats?
  
• Any suggestions to improve my set-up output quality?
  

​

Thanks in advance.

[wgscott]

Second optical or USB from computer direct to DAC.

[Marcello Povoa]

Second optical or USB from computer direct to DAC.

 

yes, I agree. But the issue is which 24bit files can I play from iTunes? Which formats? Does Apple Lossless support 24bit?

[jhwalker]

yes, I agree. But the issue is which 24bit files can I play from iTunes? Which formats? Does Apple Lossless support 24bit?

 

iTunes supports 24-bit files just fine - I play up to 24 / 192 ALAC files with no issues whatsoever. iTunes *does* have an interesting behavior if you convert an existing 24-bit file to AIFF or WAV - it silently truncates it to 16 bits during the conversion (retaining 24-bit is not even an option). Perhaps this is what you're thinking of?

 

NOTE: iTunes also plays back 24-bit WAV and AIFF files just fine, following whatever settings you've made in Audio MIDI. It's only in conversions that is changes to 16-bits

[Paul R]

iTunes supports up to to 24/368K recordings just fine.

 

When you send a file over airplay, say to an Apple TV or an Airport Express, it gets converted to a 16/44.1 file. When you play directly to a DAC from your PC or Mac, that isn't the case at all. It can put out bit perfect output. On a Mac achieving bit perfect output is trivial, on a PC - not so much, but possible.

 

-Paul

 

 

I am currently listening to music at home using this set-up:

 

 

• My iTunes library ( Win 7 64bit ) of 758 CDs converted to Apple Lossless music files is in my home office, and it is routed/connected to an Apple TV 3 in the living room through an Ethernet cable.
  
• The Apple TV 3 is connected to a DAC Moon 100D through an optical cable
  
• The DAC is connected to an integrated amplifier Cambridge Audio Azur 815A which outputs the analogical sound to the speakers.
  

 

I want to have best possible sound quality, but as far as I understand I have some limitations on this set-up:

 

1) Apple TV outputs everything at 16 bit/48 kHz (not bit perfect and not 'CD quality' 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz). So, even if I have higher quality music files being served from iTunes, it will be down sampled to 16 bit/48 kHz.

 

2) ITunes does NOT support 24bit recording and all Apple Lossless music files are automatically converted back to 16-Bit by iTunes

 

So here are my questions:

 

 

• Can I play 24bit music files using iTunes directly from the PC to the DAC ( NOT using Apple TV) ?
  
• If yes, which formats?
  
• Any suggestions to improve my set-up output quality?
  

​

Thanks in advance.

[Marcello Povoa]

It is great to learn that iTunes does support 24bit.

So, let me try to focus my question:

 

I have for years being converting my CD collection to Apple Lossless. As far as I know, 'CD quality' means 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz.

Thus, a CD can NOT be converted to 24bit.

Is this correct?

If so, how can I produce an Apple Lossless format file in 24bit?

[Paul R]

Hi Marcello -

 

You are exactly correct that "CD Quality" is 16 bit 44.1khz, and when you RIP a CD, that is the format that you get. That format also streams at full resolution to your remote devices through Airplay.

 

You cannot really get higher resolution from a CD, so to get a real high resolution file, say 24/96K, you will have to download a hi-res album or track from any of the many merchants selling hi-res material. HDTracks and so forth.

 

You can, on your PC or Mac, run software that will resample (upsample) the 16/44.1 material to 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, or even 24/192. It doesn't really add any additional information to the music, but many folks think it sounds better on their equipment. And it does in a lot of cases, but mostly because the DAC deal better with a hi-res signal- not because the material is inherently any better.

 

On a PC, try J. River Media Center. On a Mac, try Amarra, Pure Music, Audirvana+, Decibel, Fidelia, and BitPerfect - among others.

Hope that helps.

 

 

It is great to learn that iTunes does support 24bit.

So, let me try to focus my question:

 

I have for years being converting my CD collection to Apple Lossless. As far as I know, 'CD quality' means 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz.

Thus, a CD can NOT be converted to 24bit.

Is this correct?

If so, how can I produce an Apple Lossless format file in 24bit?

[Marcello Povoa]

Hi Marcello -

 

You are exactly correct that "CD Quality" is 16 bit 44.1khz, and when you RIP a CD, that is the format that you get. That format also streams at full resolution to your remote devices through Airplay.

 

You cannot really get higher resolution from a CD, so to get a real high resolution file, say 24/96K, you will have to download a hi-res album or track from any of the many merchants selling hi-res material. HDTracks and so forth.

 

You can, on your PC or Mac, run software that will resample (upsample) the 16/44.1 material to 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, or even 24/192. It doesn't really add any additional information to the music, but many folks think it sounds better on their equipment. And it does in a lot of cases, but mostly because the DAC deal better with a hi-res signal- not because the material is inherently any better.

 

On a PC, try J. River Media Center. On a Mac, try Amarra, Pure Music, Audirvana+, Decibel, Fidelia, and BitPerfect - among others.

Hope that helps.

 

Dear Paul,

 

thanks for the very didactic explanation.

 

I now understand that in order to have a "true" 24bit music file I need to download it from HDTracks or similar store -- that I assume produce the 24 bit file directly from a studio master tape.

 

However, my whole iTunes library is composed of 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz Apple Lossless files ( ripped from 758 CDs up to now ). I still believe I can get a better sound quality output to all these 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz Apple Lossless files in my system.

 

Let me then please explore you knowledge and ask you another question.

 

As mentioned above, this is my system:

​

 

• My iTunes library ( Win 7 64bit ) of 758 CDs converted to Apple Lossless music files is in my home office, which is routed/connected to an Apple TV 3 in the living room through an Ethernet cable.
  
• The Apple TV 3 is connected to a DAC Moon 100D through an optical cable
  
• The DAC is connected to an integrated amplifier Cambridge Audio Azur 815A which outputs the analogical sound to the B&W speakers.
  

So, since Apple TV outputs everything at 16 bit/48 kHz (not bit perfect and not 'CD quality' 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz) I believe I am losing quality.

 

As far as I understand, the easier way to improve final sound quality would be to connect my home office Win 7 64 bit PC directly to the DAC through optical or USB.

 

Unfortunately this is not possible, since the DAC and the whole Hi-Fi system are in the living room, which is about 40 meters away from the home office ( it is a big house ). This is the reason I use the Apple TV on the living room.

 

The good news is that I have the whole house wired with Ethernet cables ( and Wi-Fi ).

So, I believe the way to solve the issue would be to use a second PC on the living room substituting the Apple TV:

 

Home Office PC with iTunes Library => long Ethernet cable => Living room PC => DAC => integrated amp => speakers

Ps.: The premise is to have all the files served from the home office PC, where I keep constantly updating the library. The Living room PC will have NO music files on its hard drive.

- Do you agree with this solution to improve sound quality?

- If so, how will the living room PC read and play the iTunes files from the Home office PC’s Hard Drive?

- Using iTunes on both PCs with home sharing will work?

[Jud]

You can eliminate the long cable by having your storage (your iTunes library) available via either wireless network from your PC, or wired from an external drive to your living room PC. (You could easily keep the home office PC synced with your living room external drive. I keep music synced on two external drives, one in the home office and one in the main system, and it's as easy as copying and pasting from one to the other.) Or if you would like to get a little exotic, read here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/

[Paul R]

Deleted -

 

Sorry, I missed the word "didactic" in there, and that was never my intention.

 

Best,

-Paul

[Marcello Povoa]

Deleted -

 

Sorry, I missed the word "didactic" in there, and that was never my intention.

 

Best,

-Paul

 

Paul,

 

The word didactic was used here as a compliment, meaning the ability you have to convey instruction and information in a very clear, well structured way.

 

Please do not interpret it in any other way. “Didactic” comes from the greek didaktikos, and every great teacher do have this skill.

 

Sorry if it sounded in any other way, it was never my intent. On the opposite, I was enjoying very much your text.

 

Please put your answer back, I was beginning to follow some of your advice but it then was deleted!

 

Looking forward.

Marcello.

[mayhem13]

There is another option to get true 16/44.1 bit perfect output of your files and that's to use an Airport Express instead of the Apple TV. The Airport express uses the original AirTunes protocol instead of AirPlay. I use 2 Airports and 5 ATVs in my network currently. If you don't need video at this location, repurpose the ATV in another room with a TV or secondary sound system.

 

BTW.....IMO only, the Airport does have a slight edge on SQ over the ATV, the 1khz-5khz range is a little smoother and cleaner than the ATV so if your looking for an SQ improvement I believe the Airport will provide it. Both of these devices are known to be jittery through the Optical output but good DACs are designed to easily handle and correct for it as your Cambridge does.

 

Now if you WANTED to playback true HiRes files, as other have mentioned you'd need another computer at the HiFi system and for many, the MacMini is an excellent solution due to its small form factor and clean styled appearance. While the investment in a new MacMini just to serve up music might seem a bit excessive, there's no reason not to use an older generation, preowned mini as there's tons of them available on classified type sites for half the cost or less of a new mini. A close friend of mine has done this and to make it match his current rack mount gear, he installed the mini inside an HTPC case along with several HDDs for a clean install.

[Marcello Povoa]

There is another option to get true 16/44.1 bit perfect output of your files and that's to use an Airport Express instead of the Apple TV. The Airport express uses the original AirTunes protocol instead of AirPlay. I use 2 Airports and 5 ATVs in my network currently. If you don't need video at this location, repurpose the ATV in another room with a TV or secondary sound system.

 

BTW.....IMO only, the Airport does have a slight edge on SQ over the ATV, the 1khz-5khz range is a little smoother and cleaner than the ATV so if your looking for an SQ improvement I believe the Airport will provide it. Both of these devices are known to be jittery through the Optical output but good DACs are designed to easily handle and correct for it as your Cambridge does.

 

Now if you WANTED to playback true HiRes files, as other have mentioned you'd need another computer at the HiFi system and for many, the MacMini is an excellent solution due to its small form factor and clean styled appearance. While the investment in a new MacMini just to serve up music might seem a bit excessive, there's no reason not to use an older generation, preowned mini as there's tons of them available on classified type sites for half the cost or less of a new mini. A close friend of mine has done this and to make it match his current rack mount gear, he installed the mini inside an HTPC case along with several HDDs for a clean install.

 

The MacMini sounds like a good solution. I was already considering it as a way to bring more sound quality to the living room system. The concern I have is that I haven’t own/used MacOS in ages...

 

My main PC in the home office is a Win 7 64bit, and will be hosting the iTunes Music library files -- with home sharing activated on iTunes interface.

 

Here comes my question then:

If I connect the MacMini with the Win 7 PC as a file host via Ethernet, will the Mac be able to read and manage the music files through ( Mac’s ) iTunes 11?

( The Mac won’t have any local music files from the library on its hard drive ).

[mayhem13]

Honestly don't know if Home Sharing works across platforms. ITunes help topic on Home Sharing should clear it up.

[jhwalker]

Honestly don't know if Home Sharing works across platforms. ITunes help topic on Home Sharing should clear it up.

 

Home sharing works just fine between Windows and Mac.

 

HOWEVER . . . the source system that is sharing the files (i.e., the Windows system) must remain the "manager" of the library, not the Mac "target" system. When you're connected to the source, the remote library is basically in "read-only" mode on the local machine, so you can only play music, not manage the library.

 

Furthermore, none of the "audiophile" players will work with music streamed across home sharing, so if you wanted to try Pure Music, Audirvana Plus, BitPerfect, Amarra, etc., they will not work in this config.

 

If you want to manage the music library via iTunes on the Mac, but want the music to remain stored on the Windows system, you could just set up a file share and point the Mac to the remote share - but I'm not very confident that would work well in the long run. Playing anything over the network (even fast wireless or gigabit Ethernet) is not usually the best idea The only thing I do across my network is back up LOL

[Owentdc]

<snip>

So, since Apple TV outputs everything at 16 bit/48 kHz (not bit perfect and not 'CD quality' 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz) I believe I am losing quality. <snip>

 

You're not losing quality. I have a similar setup. Your ATV is upsampling the cd resolution you're feeding it, albeit very little. The DAC is then upsampling to the tune of 8X!

I would try the easy stuff first. Convert within iTunes the ALAC files to AIFF and move them to an external drive... USB2 is fine.

 

Have you "optimized" your computer to just play audio or is it doing double duty?

[Marcello Povoa]

Home sharing works just fine between Windows and Mac.

 

HOWEVER . . . the source system that is sharing the files (i.e., the Windows system) must remain the "manager" of the library, not the Mac "target" system. When you're connected to the source, the remote library is basically in "read-only" mode on the local machine, so you can only play music, not manage the library.

 

 

I assume I would connect the remote MacMini also to my TV ( by HDMI ) in order to visualize and interact with the Mac iTunes interface ( the TV will work as the monitor ).

 

So...the iTunes on the Mac will behave functionally the same way as an Apple TV interface?

 

When you say that: "the remote library is basically in "read-only" mode on the local machine".

 

So Just like on Apple TV, I can NOT add/edit music from the server Win 7 PC.

But can I:

select across my playlists?

do a search by keyword? ( e.g Miles Davis ).

Browse by category? etc.

 

The question is how much will iTunes be functionally limited on the remote MacMini?

[mayhem13]

iPad is an excellent mini front end interface.

[wgscott]

I'm hoping a Rasberry pi will be our bit-perfect streamer solution...

[Audio_ELF]

I'm hoping a Rasberry pi will be our bit-perfect streamer solution...

 

You may be interested in this ... VortexBox user forum - Logitech SqueezeBox replacement for under $30

[Craig Blackburn]

I am currently listening to music at home using this set-up:

 

 

• My iTunes library ( Win 7 64bit ) of 758 CDs converted to Apple Lossless music files is in my home office, and it is routed/connected to an Apple TV 3 in the living room through an Ethernet cable.
  
• The Apple TV 3 is connected to a DAC Moon 100D through an optical cable
  
• The DAC is connected to an integrated amplifier Cambridge Audio Azur 815A which outputs the analogical sound to the speakers.
  

 

I want to have best possible sound quality, but as far as I understand I have some limitations on this set-up:

 

1) Apple TV outputs everything at 16 bit/48 kHz (not bit perfect and not 'CD quality' 16 bit/ 44.1 kHz). So, even if I have higher quality music files being served from iTunes, it will be down sampled to 16 bit/48 kHz.

 

2) ITunes does NOT support 24bit recording and all Apple Lossless music files are automatically converted back to 16-Bit by iTunes

 

So here are my questions:

 

 

• Can I play 24bit music files using iTunes directly from the PC to the DAC ( NOT using Apple TV) ?
  
• If yes, which formats?
  
• Any suggestions to improve my set-up output quality?
  

​

Thanks in advance.

 

CDs top out at 20/48, though almost all of them are 16/44.1. If you want anything higher you will have to ditch the CDs for DVD-A, SACD, HDtracks dot com, or some other hi res music retailer. The compact disc is not hi resolution. The cheaper alternative is to go with vinyl LPs or reel-to-reel tapes and convert them to digital files and set your own resolution.

[The Computer Audiophile]

CDs top out at 20/48, though almost all of them are 16/44.1. If you want anything higher you will have to ditch the CDs for DVD-A, SACD, HDtracks dot com, or some other hi res music retailer. The compact disc is not hi resolution. The cheaper alternative is to go with vinyl LPs or reel-to-reel tapes and convert them to digital files and set your own resolution.

CDs are 16/44.1. Period.

[REShaman]

CDs are 16/44.1. Period.

 

Chris,

 

Does that differentiate 100kHz/20Bit K2 (HDCD) from CD. Or inclusive? My remarks are intended as a question.

Best,

Richard

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris,

 

Does that differentiate 100kHz/20Bit K2 (HDCD) from CD. Or inclusive? My remarks are intended as a question.

Best,

Richard

Hi Richard - The CDs you mention may have been mastered at 100kHz or 20-bit or whatever, but the final version delivered to you the customer is always 16/44.1.

[REShaman]

Hi Richard - The CDs you mention may have been mastered at 100kHz or 20-bit or whatever, but the final version delivered to you the customer is always 16/44.1.

 

 

Chris,

Of course. What was I thinking? In the words of Emily Litella,

 

: >}

Richard