Graceland 24/96

[dallasjustice]

This is what I got from Audacity.

 

[elcorso]

This is what I got from Audacity.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2806[/ATTACH]

 

 

Too late!!! Bought & DL.

 

The "Homeless" (Demo) track is different from the original track...

 

Everything truncated at 20K, a little overload...

 

But WTH I love this album!

 

Best,

 

Roch

[dallasjustice]

I thought I would hit the barbed wire first on this one. It's more compressed than the original; bass is punchier. Still a great album and the Paul Simon Interview and extra tracks are pretty cool.

 

I saw Paul Simon last tour here and I thought he was going to tour again soon with Ladysmith for the 25th anniversary. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

[dallasjustice]

It's an HDtracks Smash and Grab. Here's the original DR for "Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes"

 

Here is the same track from HDtracks

[Jud]

It's an HDtracks Smash and Grab. Here's the original DR for "Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes"

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2820[/ATTACH]

 

Here is the same track from HDtracks

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2821[/ATTACH]

 

Holy moly. Of course I wouldn't blame HDTracks' transfer, but rather whatever remastering the label offered. Unfortunately, the net effect is that the "hi-res" download can't be trusted to sound better.

 

It would be nice if the labels would understand they're helping to kill a potential present and future market, but I won't hold my breath.

[dallasjustice]

Why blame HD tracks? They only sell it. ;-)

[HiResSteve]

I thank you for risking your cash and posting your findings. It has saved me some money.

 

I agree we can't blame HDTracks since that is what they were given, but it doesn't give me much confidence for future buys. At this point I will only buy based on other's experience or I will download one track first to check it out. That method costs me an extra $2.50, but at least I can see what I am in for before I spend the full $17. (Of course, not all albums offer single tracks to be downloaded.)

[dallasjustice]

Paul Simon from "you're the one"

 

"What do you think has been going on for so long?"

 

Im a criminal defense lawyer. By this logic I can guarantee a dismissal so that i get my client's money. When he gets pen time instead, i can just tell him; "sorry dude, i didn't know you had a tough case."

 

Maybe my standards are too high. :-)

[integriscdp]

I thank you for risking your cash and posting your findings. It has saved me some money.

 

I agree we can't blame HDTracks since that is what they were given, but it doesn't give me much confidence for future buys. At this point I will only buy based on other's experience or I will download one track first to check it out. That method costs me an extra $2.50, but at least I can see what I am in for before I spend the full $17. (Of course, not all albums offer single tracks to be downloaded.)

 

I agree. The problem is, for the majority of titles listed on HDTracks, the customer is not given the ability to purchase individual tracks (incuding Graceland). Perhaps this is being dictated by the labels, but either way, it is a poor business model, especially when refunds are generally not offered for poor quality masters.

 

I had the unfortunate experience of downloading the most recent four releases from R.E.M. a couple months ago. WOW...what a mistake that was...$90 down the drain! I sent several emails to their customer support staff complaining about the poor quality, and got absolutely nowhere...not even a discount on a future purchase. But then again, I've only purchased about 250 hi-rez titles from them, so perhaps I'm not the kind of customer they value...

[Archimago]

I had the unfortunate experience of downloading the most recent four releases from R.E.M. a couple months ago. WOW...what a mistake that was...$90 down the drain! I sent several emails to their customer support staff complaining about the poor quality, and got absolutely nowhere...not even a discount on a future purchase. But then again, I've only purchased about 250 hi-rez titles from them, so perhaps I'm not the kind of customer they value...

 

Wow! 250 titles! Impressive... Only 20 times for me and I think "Celebration Day" (see the thread I just started) is the last one unless I have confirmation from others that it's truly hi-rez.

[firedog]

I don't think we can blame HDT, as the compression is added in the remastering. Simon's last studio album had even higher volume compression. I find it unlistenable.

 

HDT (Chesky) has said in interviews that he considers the amount of volume compression an artistic decision, and doesn't think it has anything to do with "sound quality" per se. In other words, a matter of taste.

 

That said, I agree that it is up to those of us who don't like the heavy volume compression to be aware consumers, and we should also make our preferences known to vendors like HDT. Maybe at some point the record labels will think to release versions with and without added VC, as Apple Records has done with recent re-releases.

[dallasjustice]

I don't think we can blame HDT, as the compression is added in the remastering. Simon's last studio album had even higher volume compression. I find it unlistenable.

 

HDT (Chesky) has said in interviews that he considers the amount of volume compression an artistic decision, and doesn't think it has anything to do with "sound quality" per se. In other words, a matter of taste.

 

That said, I agree that it is up to those of us who don't like the heavy volume compression to be aware consumers, and we should also make our preferences known to vendors like HDT. Maybe at some point the record labels will think to release versions with and without added VC, as Apple Records has done with recent re-releases.

 

Why offer the file mastered in 24 bit? Isn't the point of 24 bit to obtain greater dynamic range, not less?

[ron spencer]

which is why I NEVER, EVER, EVER buy without some sort of coupon...sham

[Archimago]

Why blame HD tracks? They only sell it. ;-)

 

:-)

 

Actually, I do blame them for not having a customer review system on-line for people to share their thoughts as is customary these days for most reputable on-line stores. There is only one reason for HDTracks - sound quality and to have no mechanism for feedback makes these clowns unaccountable to their raison d'etre.

 

Of course, the more cynical side of me feels they know there's a problem with many of these tracks (naaahhh, can't be! Mr. Chesky would NEVER do this!) ;-)

[firedog]

Why offer the file mastered in 24 bit? Isn't the point of 24 bit to obtain greater dynamic range, not less?

 

First answer: apparently not for everyone

2nd answer: or the point for the record labels is simply to create another income stream, without actual regard to quality

[firedog]

:-)

 

Actually, I do blame them for not having a customer review system on-line for people to share their thoughts as is customary these days for most reputable on-line stores. There is only one reason for HDTracks - sound quality and to have no mechanism for feedback makes these clowns unaccountable to their raison d'etre.

 

Agree. Even if users may disagree about SQ of something like added VC, it would be much better if we could make informed choices. The fact that we can't only reduces the amount of material I'll buy from HDT, as I don't want to waste my money on something I'll be unhappy with in the end. There are several albums on their site that I have some interest in, but won't buy b/c they aren't important enough to me to take a risk.

[EuroChamp]

Anyway, the SQ of the 24 bit tracks is not bad, there is much more resolution.

[kurb1980]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed folder: /Users/Icarus/Music/Profire 610/Master Files/Paul Simon/Graceland/Graceland 192khz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR15 -1.16 dB -18.69 dB A1 The Boy In The Bubble .aiff

DR13 -1.47 dB -18.99 dB A2 Graceland .aiff

DR14 -4.11 dB -19.88 dB A3 I Know What I Know .aiff

DR12 -5.73 dB -20.32 dB A4 Gumboots.aiff

DR15 -3.24 dB -21.24 dB A5 Diamonds On The Soles Of Her Shoes .aiff

DR16 -0.71 dB -18.69 dB B1 You Can Call Me Al .aiff

DR15 -1.51 dB -20.15 dB B2 Under African Skies .aiff

DR15 -4.02 dB -23.31 dB B3 Homeless .aiff

DR14 -2.16 dB -20.35 dB B4 Crazy Love Vol II .aiff

DR13 -3.63 dB -19.15 dB B5 That Was Your Mother .aiff

DR13 -3.81 dB -20.00 dB B6 All Around The World Or The Myth Of Fingerprints .aiff

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of files: 11

Official DR value: DR14

 

==============================================================================================

[kurb1980]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed folder: /Users/Icarus/Music/Profire 610/Master Files/Paul Simon/Graceland/Graceland 192khz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR15 -1.16 dB -18.69 dB A1 The Boy In The Bubble .aiff

DR13 -1.47 dB -18.99 dB A2 Graceland .aiff

DR14 -4.11 dB -19.88 dB A3 I Know What I Know .aiff

DR12 -5.73 dB -20.32 dB A4 Gumboots.aiff

DR15 -3.24 dB -21.24 dB A5 Diamonds On The Soles Of Her Shoes .aiff

DR16 -0.71 dB -18.69 dB B1 You Can Call Me Al .aiff

DR15 -1.51 dB -20.15 dB B2 Under African Skies .aiff

DR15 -4.02 dB -23.31 dB B3 Homeless .aiff

DR14 -2.16 dB -20.35 dB B4 Crazy Love Vol II .aiff

DR13 -3.63 dB -19.15 dB B5 That Was Your Mother .aiff

DR13 -3.81 dB -20.00 dB B6 All Around The World Or The Myth Of Fingerprints .aiff

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of files: 11

Official DR value: DR14

 

==============================================================================================

 

This is my rip of the original US press I would never listen to anything else...well unless you have a near mint of the UK press of course.

[burnspbesq]

FWIW, the vinyl of the 25th anniversary reissue sounds fabulous.

[jmdesignz2]

HD Tracks still has this available and says it is 96/24 with the exception of 3 tracks? Is it worth buying now?

[dallasjustice]

I have both the original CD and the HDTRACKS version. I listen to the original CD version. I think it sounds more authentic. This is one of those HDTRACKS releases that is so different from the original that I would have to not like the original release to consider listening to the hi-rez.

 

I have other HDTRACKS stuff that I really like and is an improvement over original release. This is not one of them.

 

HD Tracks still has this available and says it is 96/24 with the exception of 3 tracks? Is it worth buying now?

[Boris75]

I don't think we can blame HDT, as the compression is added in the remastering. Simon's last studio album had even higher volume compression. I find it unlistenable.

 

HDT (Chesky) has said in interviews that he considers the amount of volume compression an artistic decision, and doesn't think it has anything to do with "sound quality" per se. In other words, a matter of taste.

 

That said, I agree that it is up to those of us who don't like the heavy volume compression to be aware consumers, and we should also make our preferences known to vendors like HDT. Maybe at some point the record labels will think to release versions with and without added VC, as Apple Records has done with recent re-releases.

 

Even if the folks at HDTracks sincerely believe that strong volume compression can be "artistic", it would be very easy for them to include the DR value in the description of what they are selling. Another, more complicated step would be to ask the labels to provide files without VC (or with less of it) and to sell it in addition to the standard version. Who knows, maybe we audiophiles would be ready to pay much more for that and this would be a win-win situation: more money for the labels and HDTracks, better sound for us?

[DaQi]

So, doesn't the argument about artistic choice kind of fall on its face here?

 

According to the analysis by DallasJustice the dynamic range of the original release is somewhere around 16 while the dynamic range from HDTracks is 8. Seems that the artist made a choice with the original recording that is being violated with the HDTracks release.

 

A few too many unknowns here to get pry my wallet open which is why after a few purchases at HDTracks I haven't been back. I don't have the time or interest to research my purchases or to roll the dice. It is too bad that HDTracks isn't addressing these concerns a bit more transparently to reassure consumers that their premium product is in fact premium.

[firedog]

So, doesn't the argument about artistic choice kind of fall on its face here?

 

According to the analysis by DallasJustice the dynamic range of the original release is somewhere around 16 while the dynamic range from HDTracks is 8. Seems that the artist made a choice with the original recording that is being violated with the HDTracks release.

 

A few too many unknowns here to get pry my wallet open which is why after a few purchases at HDTracks I haven't been back. I don't have the time or interest to research my purchases or to roll the dice. It is too bad that HDTracks isn't addressing these concerns a bit more transparently to reassure consumers that their premium product is in fact premium.

 

Well, not exactly. One, we don't know that Simon wasn't involved in the remastering. Two, even if he wasn't, the producer is also an "artist" as far as the production on an album is concerned. So this can also be a producer decision. My memory of what I read from Chesky is that he regards what he receives from the label to be the result of "artistic" decisions about how recordings should sound.

 

Since Chesky doesn't seem to think VC is an issue, we audiophiles need to make him aware that we don't want to buy albums that are heavily volume compressed.