Best way to get a bit perfect stream to my Anthem AVM30's DAC on a $400 budget

[ctmorsejr]

I am a new member of the CA community and have searched for any threads that may already be discussing this or a similar topic to no avail. I was initially planning on going with something like a Logitech Squeezebox Touch but then I started thinking about using a PC based solution for audio streaming. I am a Network Administrator by trade and also an avid PC gamer. Because of this my home network is very robust (HP and Enterasys GB managed switches all behind a SonicWall router/FW) and the pool of spare PC hardware I have sitting around is extensive (as a PC gamer I upgrade often). I currently have 5 active PCs as well as 2 ESXi Hosts running on the network and over 35TB of unused storage space. My managed network is running several different VLANs and regardless of which approach I end up taking the streamed audio (and eventually video) will be on a dedicated and prioritized virtual network.

 

I have been an audio enthusiast for almost 30 years and my main system consists of the following (not state of the art but better than an old Realistic console):

 

Aragon 8008ST and 8008x5

Anthem AVM 30

Kuzma Stabi turntable with a Kuzma Stogi tonearm and a Benz Micro Glider cartridge

Michael Yee PFE-1 phono preamp

OPPO BDP-95

Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

6 Wharfedale 9.6s with a Wharfedale 9.CM center speaker

2 custom made subs based on Peerless 10” drivers powered by an Acurus A250

 

So now that I’m finished with the long winded preface here’s my question: Knowing that I want to get as close as possible to bit perfect streaming of my downloaded HD and ripped CD files (mostly in FLAC format) and the plan for now is to use the DACs in my Anthem AVM 30 would I be better served getting a standalone streaming device like the Squeezebox Touch or using a USB to S/PDIF converter and a PC? Either way I’ll be building a virtual media server and storing the files on a GB networked server and sound quality is the most important aspect to me.

 

I have also looked at USB DACs like the Audioquest Dragonfly, Halide Design DACs and HRT Music Streamer Pro but figured maybe I’d be better off using the slightly dated but good quality DACs (AKM AK4382 24-bit/192-kHz) in the Anthem AVM 30 with a converter. But, I may be way off base here so please let me know if I am. Another option is using the digital out on a good sound card but I figured the converter would be a more flexible and future proof option. Plus I’d like to start off for $400 or under if possible and then after I have a little more experience I can upgrade if necessary (the U-bug hits pretty regularly of late).

 

 

If anyone knows of any threads already covering this please let me know but as I stated, I searched and didn’t find anything. I don’t want to annoy anyone by starting a duplicate thread.

 

Thanks, Carl

[thrand1]

Carl,

 

Welcome to CA, hope you enjoy your stay. Sounds like you got a really nice IT setup at your home...as an aspiring network engineer it sounds like something I'd like to have in a future home

 

This is probably a very simplistic question but...have you tried using the UPnP/streaming facilities on the Oppo 95? If you can set up a UPnP server like Asset, then you should be able to read your music folders using the Oppo's GUI. Although the Oppo's interface is not nearly as nice as something like JRiver, you could then leverage either the Oppo's excellent built-in DAC or feed it via optical/coaxial to your Anthem processor. Best of all, this option is free!

 

Since I don't own any of these products, take all of this with a grain of salt...in my opinion, if you were to build a computer and connect it directly to the Anthem, it might be difficult to ascertain differences between USB DACs in cases where you are using the Anthem's digital signal processing (DSP) in the signal chain. The reason I think this is because if the Anthem takes the output from your USB DAC and ends up performing an A-to-D conversion to perform DSP, then another D-to-A before amplification, then some/most of the differences would be marginalized.

 

If you are really interested in using the Anthem's DACs and want to build a computer/server, I think focusing on a high-quality USB-to-SPDIF converter would give you the most bang for your buck. There are several available at your $400 budget, from the hiFace Two to the Musical Fidelity VLINK 192.

 

Just some food for thought to get you started, good luck with your search!

-Tyler

[johnemcgregor]

Hello and welcome,

In one of my setups, I use an Asus Xonar Essence with an spdif interface to the DAC and manage that with JRiver. Chris wrote an excellent tutorial on using this setup and I found this transport to rival cd transports at much less cost. Good luck with your search for superb sound!

John

[ipeverywhere]

I would stay away from streaming. I opened a poll a couple weeks back and almost 75% of the respondents do not stream their files but use local mounts. You've got plenty of good network there and with your background I think you'd be better served by building a music server and mounting the network drive locally to that server. This also gives you the advantage that it's the most versatile beginnings to go in any direction with regards to sending the "bit perfect" data into a DAC. I also recommend you use an audio player that can play from memory. This will allow the server to suck the file across the network at full speed directly into memory and then the player will read it out of memory directly.

 

With your budget I'd acquire or borrow or however you can get it, some kind of S/PDIF converter. Something like the Musical Fidelity v-link 192 or a HiFace2 or a sound card with S/PDIF out (although I'm not a PC guy so have no recommendation there). This will allow you to plug into the digital inputs on the Anthem.

 

Once you get to hear the Anthem in this set-up you can decide if it's good enough or you want to move onto a better stand alone DAC. If you set yourself up this way going to another DAC is as simple as moving your coax cable.

 

One other recommendation is to keep your file server and music server on the same VLAN. You don't want to "route" between these two networks as it will add just a tad bit of latency you don't want.

 

On a personal note, any protocol that uses a multicast broadcast to find devices isn't working between my wireless APs and my wired network very well. I think it's a problem with either my switch or the APs not sending the broadcast but it's one more annoyance that can be avoided by not using a streaming protocol like AirPlay or DLNA which relies on multicast broadcasts to find services. Some day I'll get around to fixing it but right now I just avoid the situation.

 

BTW, what do you use as a NAS type device?

[mayhem13]

I second UpnP streaming to the Oppo95

[thestewman]

Here are some items you might want to consider.

Most important, the Anthem AVM30 DAC can only do 24/96 not 24/192

The OPPO 95 has an excellent built in DAC so to start out you might use the OPPO 95 as your DAC and network device.

You can store and play your files from a storage device connected by eSata ,ethernet or USB to the OPPO 95

From experience I found that using the balanced 2 channel inputs on the Anthem is the best sounding and the single ended analog as next best. Setting the Anthem at Analog Direct bypasses the Anthem processor and sounds the best. This eliminates the Anthem from adding a second stage of Digital conversion. If you like what you hear you can then add an external DAC of you own choice.

I personally use either a Logitech Transporter, a Weiss Dac 202 or a Mytek Stereo 192 through an Anthem.

The Mytek sounds the best.

[ctmorsejr]

Tyler,

 

Thanks for the reply and I can envision being quite active at CA. I have over 5000 vinyl LPs and love the way a properly setup and adjusted turntable can sound but I am finding that digital music has made many strides over the last 30 years and that I can now enjoy it as well (which wasn’t the case when I first started to listen to CDs back in the 80s). And there is no arguing that digital music has many advantages including no physical wear, an ever expanding catalog and ease of use.

 

Most of my IT experience comes from setting up and maintaining a Microsoft domain environment at home and I eventually turned it into a career. I can’t over emphasize how beneficial setting up a “virtual server” at home is and it can be invaluable in not only the virtualization and server management aspects of IT but the networking as well. Routing, VLANs, firewalling and basically any networking task can be all accomplished virtually and the basic logic is the same as a physical network. And with a free Hypervisor like ESXi (and Hyper-V now has a free version as well) and a decent PC with pretty standard hardware you can setup a Host for cheap. Sorry, that was a bit off topic.

 

I use the streaming functionality of the BDP-95 all of the time and it was one of the features that prompted me to get it over the BDP-93 (that and the improved audio section). It is a bit clunky (especially for network streaming) and I actually have a 120GB SSD in an external eSATA dock that I store music files on. It led me to secure ripping with EAC and dBpoweramp and I proved to myself I could extract a sonically outstanding copy (I’m not going to say exact because I have seen that lead to some pretty terse discussions on other forums) that I couldn’t distinguish from the original. That led to the discovery of HDTracks and I have downloaded a few excellent sounding high-rez albums. The reason I’m moving beyond the BDP-95 is:

 

1) I now have access to a 32’ x 32’ listening room with 9’ ceilings (it’s actually my PC repair shop) so I have my main system there and another secondary system in the living room at home

2) There is no real, usable, on-board display for navigating the music files on the OPPO so it requires a TV or monitor. And the interface on the OPPO is quite limited and it doesn’t support gapless playback at the moment

3) Being in the PC and networking business now and having worked in the audio business in the 80s and 90s I can see this as a fascinating and rewarding hobby and even potentially a business opportunity (helping people setup their own PC based audio systems). Most importantly it has gotten me back into listening to music after about a ten year hiatus

 

Your point about the USB DACs being fed into the DA converter of the Anthem is what I was considering when I started looking into a USB to S/PDIF converter vs. a USB DAC. Wanting to stay in the under $400 range for now made me wonder if the DACs in the less expensive devices would compare to the DACs in the Anthem. I can say from personal experience that the converters in the BDP-95 sound better to me than those in the Anthem but both sound quite good. The review of the AudioQuest DragonFly makes me wonder if technology has progressed far enough that a $250 USB DAC might sound as good or even better than the converters in a device that was $3K 10 years ago.

 

Right now I am leaning towards the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 connected to my AVM 30. It has gotten several glowing reviews and is on the C.A.S.H. list to boot. And my plan for the near future is to get a Parasound Halo P7 7.1 balanced analog preamp and feed the BDP-95 directly into it. Since the Oppo can handle the processing, bass management, speaker level matching and time alignment I really don’t need a dedicated processor. I know I give up some features but the sound is of the first and foremost importance to me (and I don’t need video switching, the TV can handle that). Then I’ll just need a dedicated DAC for the audio files and hopefully I’ll end up with an audio and HT system that does sonic justice to both.

 

Thanks, Carl

[ctmorsejr]

John,

The Asus Xonar cards are on the short list of what I was considering and even though I don’t think I'll be going that route now I am certain I will give it a try in the near future. I’m always looking to get the best sound I can with my limited Network Administrator’s salary and I have been curious about the capabilities of such a setup for some time now.

Thanks for the input, Carl

[ctmorsejr]

IPeverywhere,

 

My plan for critical listening is to use direct attached storage on the PC I’ll cob together to use with my audiocentric (?) system over at my shop (which is right next door to my house and the two are connected with a bonded GB pair running on CAT6). I am also planning on creating a virtual media server (I still need to research the best approach for that but I’m sure there is plenty of good info on that at CA as well). It was just today that I discovered that there are audio players that can play directly from memory. I read a review on JPlay and learned the benefits of such a player. It’s the same in the PC/server world; running from RAM is far preferable to thrashing the hard drives.

The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards using a Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 bridging the PC to my Anthem AVM 30. And I discovered that they can be purchased online for $200 which is well below my $400 budget. With Christmas fast approaching and a 14 year old daughter with an extensive list already the other $200 won’t be burning any holes.

 

I am planning on having a dedicated VLAN for media streaming only but as I mentioned before, for critical listening I’ll copy the files to DAS on the PC connected to the audio system. I had very limited success with streaming files from my Win7 PC to the OPPO which is why I decided to use the SSD I had laying around and there was nary an issue playing anything from that. But to be fair, the DNLA “server” I was using was Windows Media Player with the FLAC plug-in. I am sure there are much more capable audio streaming software options available.

For clients and at work I have used Buffalo LinkStations and various models from the NetGear ReadyNAS line both with good results (the ReadyNAS line can be used as iSCSI targets). At home I have two 3U SuperMicro servers with fifteen 3.5” removable hard drive trays (and 760W redundant power supplies), dual socket quad core AMD Opteron CPUs, 32GB of ECC DDR2 memory and 15 2TB drives in 2 RAID 6 arrays (so I’m losing 4 drives to parity). That adds up to 22TB of storage in the main server but I don’t have the second server fully populated with drives yet. I use Areca 16 port SATA RAID controllers because they have a built-in management web-server that allows for monitoring the arrays independently of the OS (both servers run VMware ESXI 5.0 and there isn’t an ESXi management utility for the Areca controllers). The RAM and controllers I bought used while the cases, motherboards and CPUs were new but I found all the parts on eBay for a lot less than what they originally sold for. I am using hardware that although is still very viable is 2 generations old. I got all of the hard drives new at Newegg. I am running around 6 Guests on each server but have more than enough resources to add many more.

 

Thanks for the reply, Carl

[ctmorsejr]

TheStewMan,

 

You are correct on the limitations of the AVM 30 and it won’t be my permanent DAC but monetary constraints require it for now. It’s nice to hear from someone who has experience with an Anthem unit as well.

 

I also agree on the DAC in the BDP-95. I have compared it to the DAC in a CA Azur 640C and to the AVM 30 and I prefer the sound of the OPPO. It is smoother, more detailed and also more dynamic and it only has about 100 hours on it so it may not even be fully broken in yet. I currently play files from an SSD connected by eSATA to the OPPO and it works very well. But for the time being the OPPO will be staying in the HT system with the 3D plasma TV which is what prompted my request for advice. If I can’t get similar quality sound using a PC and USB to S/PDIF converter then I will try another route. I also researched the Logitech Transporter as well as a few other media players and am not opposed to such a setup. But for the time being I can get up and running in the second location for $250ish (for the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192and a decent cable) and that is all I can really afford at the moment. Plus, I’m intrigued with making the attempt.

 

Thank you for the advice on using the balanced inputs as I have not given that a try. I’ll certainly look into the Mytek as well. After a cursory search I see that there is a DSD capable version. This is intriguing as I have a decent collection of SACDs that I’ve been enjoying with the OPPO. It is priced at an achievable price point for me as well.

 

Thanks, Carl

[mayhem13]

You threw me off track with using the analog inputs of the 95 and processing. I'm sure you're arame that in order for the Oppo to accomplish this, It's going to be using an AD-DA converter. Not sure that's the path you're looking for with 2channel music.

 

The V link is a good unit and does exactly what it prescribes to do. But I must admit, I could not distinguish it from my glass optical cable connected to the same PC playing the same content no matter how much I tried or wanted it to sound better.

 

Yes, the Oppo is clunky no doubt, and I don't use mine in the way I supported earlier but instead it's used as just a stand alone BD player with the occasional SACD being dropped in the tray.

[mav52]

The OPPO 95 uses the ESS Sabre 9018 DAC vs the AKM AK4382 DAC in the AVM30. Use your OPPO

[ctmorsejr]

Mayhem13

 

I think you misunderstood. What I meant is that I am using the 7.1 channel analog outputs of the OPPO (only using 6 channels now counting the sub) and running them into the AVM 30 using its 5.1 channel analog inputs. This allows me to enjoy SACD and DVD-A discs and also allows for 5.1 channel, uncompressed surround sound (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD on BRs that offer it) utilizing the BDP-95’s surround sound processing features. So the OPPO is doing all ofthe DA conversion as well as the surround sound processing and outputting it to my AVM 30 using the single ended, analog connections.

 

My hope for the future is to get a fully analog, 8 channel preamp like the Parasound Halo P7 and let the OPPO handle all of the DA conversion and surround sound processing. This should allow me to have nice 2 channel and surround sound systems all in one with the sound quality being the primary goal over extra SS processing features. And it should be cheaper as well since the newer processors with HDMI inputs to accommodate the new uncompressed SS formats are quite pricey. Plus you can use a SS processor with the P7 as a pass-through device.

 

I actually ordered a V-Link 192 this morning as it will work with my current as well as future goals. It may end up just being a stepping stone as it were but from what I’ve read it should be a good start.

 

 

Mav52,

I agree with your assessment of the 2 DACs but the OPPO will stay in system #1 for now (connected to the 8 channel, analog inputs of an Aragon Stage One) and the PC/V-Link 192 will be used with the AVM 30 in system #2. Hopefully sooner than later I can implement the 8 channel, analog preamp option and then I’ll be in the market for a DAC to use with the PC/V-Link 192.

 

Thanks to everyone for the input.

[bp-plickner]

I just got a V-link 192 up and running on my system. It replaces a squeezebox touch. The sound stage is really improved.

The V-Link 192 goes through a Wyred4sound DAC1 which I am also happy with.

 

Have Fun!

[ctmorsejr]

My V-Link 192 arrived on Tuesday but I haven't had a chance to try it yet. I'll throw together a PC out of spare parts this weekend and have at it.

 

Thanks and I'll look into the Wyred4Sound DAC1 when I can afford a new DAC next year sometime.

 

I got an email from OPPO last week and the new BDP-105 is now available and it has a built-in USB DAC and a better DMP (supposedly) along with digital inputs (coax and optical) and some additional video features. It'll be interesting to see if it gets as warm a reception as the BDP-95.