HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

7 hours ago, zorntel said:

So you are saying that both 44.1k and 48K rates work with the NAA and the IFI?  Because shifting from 44.1k to 48K was what appears to have gotten mine to work when it wasn't with 44.1k.

 

Yes both work with the Linux-based NAA image I was talking about. On Windows, you won't get 48k DSD because of ASIO driver limitation (don't ask me why they have such an artificial limitation).

 

[zorntel]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes both work with the Linux-based NAA image I was talking about. On Windows, you won't get 48k DSD because of ASIO driver limitation (don't ask me why they have such an artificial limitation).

 

My NAA machine only works when it receives 48k regardless of whether it is running windows or linux.  As far as I can tell the ASIO driver is running on the NAA machine so I'm not sure why that works.  The NAA machine does seem to be less finicky when running Linux which is good...but I still get the characteristic windows clunks when a track starts on the IFI...not when I'm running windows/AO.  Do you not get that on your machine?  I'm using Roon to serve the files.

 

Robert

[zorntel]

13 hours ago, zorntel said:

My NAA machine only works when it receives 48k regardless of whether it is running windows or linux.  As far as I can tell the ASIO driver is running on the NAA machine so I'm not sure why that works.  The NAA machine does seem to be less finicky when running Linux which is good...but I still get the characteristic windows clunks when a track starts on the IFI...not when I'm running windows/AO.  Do you not get that on your machine?  I'm using Roon to serve the files.

 

Robert

Sorry I meant to say Linux "clunks" when a track starts on the IFI.  No clunks on windows...but really poor reliability...the NAA drops over time and require multiple restarts on both machines to get it back up and running. The Microrendu folks appear to have fixed the clunking problem, but they can't reliably handle DSD 512 (static clicks that start about a minute into playing tracks).  No such static clicks with either windows or your Linux build.  I wonder if their fix solved one problem but created another.Thus everything is slightly broken in one way or another.  That said the sound quality on any of these options at DSD512 is leagues beyond DSD 256 in HQplayer or DSD 512 with Roon without HQplayer on the IFI.  Still amazing how good a $500 DAC can sound.

 

Robert

[zorntel]

On 12/22/2017 at 8:38 AM, zorntel said:

Sorry I meant to say Linux "clunks" when a track starts on the IFI.  No clunks on windows...but really poor reliability...the NAA drops over time and require multiple restarts on both machines to get it back up and running. The Microrendu folks appear to have fixed the clunking problem, but they can't reliably handle DSD 512 (static clicks that start about a minute into playing tracks).  No such static clicks with either windows or your Linux build.  I wonder if their fix solved one problem but created another.Thus everything is slightly broken in one way or another.  That said the sound quality on any of these options at DSD512 is leagues beyond DSD 256 in HQplayer or DSD 512 with Roon without HQplayer on the IFI.  Still amazing how good a $500 DAC can sound.

 

Robert

Jussi,

 

Interestingly the IFI clunks in Linux went away and now your image is working perfectly. Thanks!

 

I have a question about IO, however. Would your image be writing at all to  hard disk while the NAA is running? Or just during boot up? I'm curious about what the best hard drive delivery mechanism is to minimize noise.

 

Robert

[louisxiawei]

Guys, I need some help.

 

I was setting up optical connection for HQplayer NAA and met an annoying problem.

 

The setup as below:

 

1.  a Startech PCIE SFP network card https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/pcie-gigabit-ethernet-fiber-card-open-sfp~PEX1000SFP2

2. Gigabit Fiber SFP Transceiver Module (850nm 550m) in the NIC card https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/sfp/modules/Cisco-Compatible-Gigabit-Fiber-SFP-Transceiver-Module~SFPGLCSXMMST

3. HP 1920--8G ethernet switch (https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/default.aspx?cc=uk&lc=en&oid=6783312)

4. HP X121 1G SFP LC SX J4858C ProCurve Gigabit-SX Transceiver Module 850nm in the HP 1920 switch

The annoying bit is: Unlike RJ45 ethernet port, every time I turn on the PC, there will be no connection between my NIC and HP switch, I have to unplug and re-plug the LC-LC cable, then there will be a connection to the internet. 

 

I also find out that if the connection has been built, restarting the PC will not lose it. I have no idea whether it is my NIC's problem or HP switch needs to be set in a certain way.

 

Has anyone had these kind of problems before? Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

 

[tboooe]

3 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

Guys, I need some help.

 

I was setting up optical connection for HQplayer NAA and met an annoying problem.

 

The setup as below:

 

1.  a Startech PCIE SFP network card https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/pcie-gigabit-ethernet-fiber-card-open-sfp~PEX1000SFP2

2. Gigabit Fiber SFP Transceiver Module (850nm 550m) in the NIC card https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/sfp/modules/Cisco-Compatible-Gigabit-Fiber-SFP-Transceiver-Module~SFPGLCSXMMST

3. HP 1920--8G ethernet switch (https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/default.aspx?cc=uk&lc=en&oid=6783312)

4. HP X121 1G SFP LC SX J4858C ProCurve Gigabit-SX Transceiver Module 850nm in the HP 1920 switch

The annoying bit is: Unlike RJ45 ethernet port, every time I turn on the PC, there will be no connection between my NIC and HP switch, I have to unplug and re-plug the LC-LC cable, then there will be a connection to the internet. 

 

I also find out that if the connection has been built, restarting the PC will not lose it. I have no idea whether it is my NIC's problem or HP switch needs to be set in a certain way.

 

Has anyone had these kind of problems before? Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

 

I assume you have a multi-mode fiber cable?  My experience is that SFP modules can be finicky especially non Cisco ones.  I purchased 4 from eBay for $25 so perhaps you can try another SFP?  Btw,. I have a dual port fiber nic pcie care in my HQP PC and it works without any issue.

[louisxiawei]

On 12/24/2017 at 4:34 PM, tboooe said:

I assume you have a multi-mode fiber cable?  My experience is that SFP modules can be finicky especially non Cisco ones.  I purchased 4 from eBay for $25 so perhaps you can try another SFP?  Btw,. I have a dual port fiber nic pcie care in my HQP PC and it works without any issue.

The problem i have is probably auto build-up connection when the PC starts up. I think my PCIE card fails to negotiate with the HP switch. I will talk to Startech soon for more help.

 

Thanks for replying to me on Christmas eve, hope you have had a good time during Christmas.

 

[Miska]

On 12/24/2017 at 3:16 PM, zorntel said:

I have a question about IO, however. Would your image be writing at all to  hard disk while the NAA is running? Or just during boot up? I'm curious about what the best hard drive delivery mechanism is to minimize noise.

 

It does write some logs and updates journal time stamps, but there's not much traffic. I've used USB memory sticks and microSD cards. Those end up on USB too, but as long as they are not on the same bus with the DAC there's no issue.

 

[zorntel]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It does write some logs and updates journal time stamps, but there's not much traffic. I've used USB memory sticks and microSD cards. Those end up on USB too, but as long as they are not on the same bus with the DAC there's no issue.

 

Thanks.  Ended up with a conventional 2.5in hard drive on SATA with an external power supply.  Seems to be working great and as you suggested way more reliable than windows!

 

Interestingly my windows machine is also working with the ASIO driver at 48k x 512.  They must have lifted the 44.1k limit...at least for the IFI anyway.

 

[MikeJazz]

On 27/04/2017 at 2:20 AM, ebrandon said:

 

This is why I really value your support.  Your intuitions are usually correct and steer me to finding the solution.  I figured out how to get ChromeOS to release the iFi USB DAC, and now the NAA running in Ubuntu can see it!

 

On my cheap and wonderful chromebook I can now simultaneously control HQPlayer on a remote PC, listen to my USB DAC from NAA running in Ubuntu, and use ChromeOS to read on the web, do email, etc.

 

Awesome!

Hi ebrandon.

What Chromebook are you using?

Could you elaborate a bit on how to use Chromebook ou Pixelbook to run HQPlayer.

Was there any trick to do or are you just using the Chromebook as standard? 

 

By "NAA running in Ubuntu" you mean in a different machine or you found a way to install Ubuntu on the Chromebook?

I was wondering if the more capable i7 based Pixelbook could be enough to run HQPlayer (and eventually a roon server).

The attractive part is that they are silent machines...

 

Sorry for so many questions, I am still new to this...

[bogi]

I am trying to setup Win10 HQPlayer Desktop (HQPD) with Win10 NAA. I'm using the latest SW versions of both. I am unable to see NAA in HQPD.

 

My network setup: LTE WiFi router Huawei B310 acts as DHCP server for both HQPD computer and NAA. The router has one LAN port, which is connected to D-Link DGS-108 unmanaged switch.
I tried all combinations – both HQPD and NAA as wireless, both wired into the switch and also mixed solution. No luck.

 

ping, access to shared folders, Remote Desktop, VNC etc. works OK between those computers - wired or wirelessly, IPv4 or IPv6. Regarding NAA, I see empty "Network Audio Adapter Naming" message box.

 

To check DAC connection through ASIO, I installed HQPlayer Desktop on the NAA computer and played a song through ASIO interface - it played OK.

 

I temporarily disabled firewall on both computers but it didn't help. Still my HQPlayer Desktop cannot see my NAA.

 

Some time ago I used NAA with direct LAN cable between HQPD and NAA. I tried it again but it didn’t work now. Few months ago it worked yet but now no luck. I tried also older versions of NAA as well as older versions of HQPD. Maybe some Windows Update caused the trouble?? My Win10 is now Version 1709.

 

I know there are people on the forum who use Win10 NAA. Could you please share your experiences? Any hint, what to check, what to try? What did you do in order your Win10 NAA is found by HQPD?

[Miska]

Check if you have any other active/enabled network adapters on the HQPlayer computer. Sometimes people have had problems with virtual adapters that some software install.

 

Also check the trace from NAA side if it ever receives the discovery messages from HQPlayer. If it doesn't, multicast routing is going wrong, or some equipment on the way is filtering multicast out.

 

You could also try with IPv6 and see if it works better.

 

[bogi]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

Check if you have any other active/enabled network adapters on the HQPlayer computer. Sometimes people have had problems with virtual adapters that some software install.

 

Thanks Jussi, that was the right hint!

 

After disabling the two on the picture all works as should: direct LAN cable, LAN only, WiFi only as well as mixed LAN/WiFi. In all cases both IPv4 and IPv6.

[ambre]

Hallo Jussy/Miska,

 

Can I use your latest distro for Raspberry 3 on a Sparky UsBridge?  Do you support this very nice USB render device?

 

Now using DietPI version 6.0 but do not need all applications that are available on Dietpi etc.....that's too much baggage for me

 

Keeping it KISS...... I need only your NAA image in combination with Roon.

Ps. Is there a difference in SQ using the NAA support within DietPi and yours on Raspberry and/or Mac mini as NAA?

 

Best regards, Andreas

[ambre]

Hello Jussy/ Miska,

 

3 Observations/ remarks/ problems:

 

1) The last few days I encounter problems in up sampling (HQ-player controlled by Roon Core) on my IMac. If I switch from records/discs which contains for 96/24/2 or 192/24/2 content the up sampling isn’t forced as requested by default to 44.1 X 128 DSD/SDM.

 

But 48 x 64 = 3072 which cannot be played by my Teac 501.  Only plays 2822 or 5645 DSD/SDM.

No problems with 44.1, 88,2 or 176,4 and DSD 64 and 128.

2) When I load the saved settings by means of import the so-called allow remote control from network button = ON isn’t captured respectively recovered?  Another remark is always auto on in the opening screed. Please see attached  picture of the settings

which I load every time during starting Roon & HQ-player. Ps.  I use Hq-player 3.20.1

 

3)  Also, I lose network connection with the NAA (= Sparky USbridge) when I try to alter resp. try to change the up sampling from 3072 to default. Switching from to Core to Network doesn’t help ......networking is lost. And I have to restart my NAA before I can reconnect.

 

Please advise.

 

Can also please answer my earlier post dated 29-01-2018

 

Thanks in advance.

Andreas

 

 

[ambre]

Hello Jussy/ Miska,

 

Concerning the upsampling issue . Most probably is it the Closed Form method what causes my ( may be others) problem as described earlier today.

 

Back to poly-sinc / poly-sinc-shrt-mp no problems occur. Everything is now propperly upsampled to DSD 128.

Strange isn't it

 

Regards, Andreas

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Hi Miska,

 

I have my MacMini (only on Wifi) direct cable connected with SOTM-sMS200ultra ethernet port to ethernet port. 

 

After applying "Internet sharing" on the Mac (with Roon Core and HQP installed) Roon will find SOTM and I can play music.

 

It took some time to find the SOTM GUI in this setup as it assigns a funny IP address to itself that is different from the one that OSX assign to that ethernet port, however, however, I can change to HQP replay in the SOTM menu BUT HQP Player does not find the SOTM endpoint. 

 

Do you know a workaround as Roon is working in this setup but HQP isn't?

 

Thanks

Chris

 

[Miska]

On 2/5/2018 at 7:48 PM, HardrockInMiniMac said:

I have my MacMini (only on Wifi) direct cable connected with SOTM-sMS200ultra ethernet port to ethernet port. 

 

After applying "Internet sharing" on the Mac (with Roon Core and HQP installed) Roon will find SOTM and I can play music.

 

That will be problematic setup because you have two network adapters active (wifi and ethernet). You need to route multicast traffic to the ethernet for it to work. That in turn may cause problems with some services on your wifi (depending what you have there).

 

Best fix is to disable that direct ethernet connection and connect the SMS200 to your wireless router instead. That way you have only one active network interface on your MacMini.

 

[Miska]

On 2/2/2018 at 8:20 PM, ambre said:

Concerning the upsampling issue . Most probably is it the Closed Form method what causes my ( may be others) problem as described earlier today.

 

Back to poly-sinc / poly-sinc-shrt-mp no problems occur. Everything is now propperly upsampled to DSD 128.

Strange isn't it

 

This is expected. closed-form cannot convert between sampling rate families while poly-sinc can (except -ext and such variants).

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

That will be problematic setup because you have two network adapters active (wifi and ethernet). You need to route multicast traffic to the ethernet for it to work. That in turn may cause problems with some services on your wifi (depending what you have there).

 

Best fix is to disable that direct ethernet connection and connect the SMS200 to your wireless router instead. That way you have only one active network interface on your MacMini.

 

Hi Miska, thanks.

 

I guess in this case best way is to use Thunderbolt/Gigabyte to ethernet bridge on the Mini (which will work for sure) and have SOTM still on direct cable connection. In this setup HQP must find a SOTM endpoint or SOTM would be inferior to ultrarendu because these guys can make this setup work with HQP quite easily as they report....

 

[Miska]

3 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

I guess in this case best way is to use Thunderbolt/Gigabyte to ethernet bridge on the Mini (which will work for sure) and have SOTM still on direct cable connection. In this setup HQP must find a SOTM endpoint or SOTM would be inferior to ultrarendu because these guys can make this setup work with HQP quite easily as they report....

 

I just completely fail to see a point in using ethernet for point-to-point networks. It is designed for network connections, not for point-to-point interfacing.

[HardrockInMiniMac]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I just completely fail to see a point in using ethernet for point-to-point networks. It is designed for network connections, not for point-to-point interfacing.

 

Well, you are true star here on this forum and I am just a user, maybe give it a try and figure it out yourself?

My interest is, this way I am saving a switch and its SMPS and with an ethernet bridge and a wireless media bridge on battery serving the MacMini there will be no SMPS in the way...

 

With the direct cable connection already in place SOtM sounds really awesome. Roon finds it regardless IP issues.

 

Chris

[Miska]

25 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Well, you are true star here on this forum and I am just a user, maybe give it a try and figure it out yourself?

My interest is, this way I am saving a switch and its SMPS and with an ethernet bridge and a wireless media bridge on battery serving the MacMini there will be no SMPS in the way...

 

MacMini has SMPS inside (pile of switching regulators on the motherboard). And it doesn't really matter anyway. But with extra switch you have couple of extra layers of isolation though.

 

I have typically three switches on the way from HQPlayer to NAA. Sometimes WiFi too.

 

25 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

With the direct cable connection already in place SOtM sounds really awesome. Roon finds it regardless IP issues.

 

I personally don't like the way Roon does the search and it wouldn't work for IPv6 networks anyway because the address space is way too big to scan through.

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

MacMini has SMPS inside (pile of switching regulators on the motherboard). And it doesn't really matter anyway. But with extra switch you have couple of extra layers of isolation though.

 

I have typically three switches on the way from HQPlayer to NAA. Sometimes WiFi too.

 

 

I personally don't like the way Roon does the search and it wouldn't work for IPv6 networks anyway because the address space is way too big to scan through.

 

My Mini has no SMPS inside, I am not this stupid that I talk about SMPS and then have one inside the computer I am trying to ring fence. I have Uptone's MMK installed....

[Miska]

26 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

My Mini has no SMPS inside, I am not this stupid that I talk about SMPS and then have one inside the computer I am trying to ring fence. I have Uptone's MMK installed....

 

That requires lot of modifications to the motherboard. Because CPU needs adjustable voltage regulators (switching type) which is adjusted by the SMC based on it's own firmware (it's a small processor running special firmware dealing with complex sequences like power up and sleep/wakeup and various power saving modes). So essentially this PMIC processor would need to be replaced with another one controlling external variable regulators with a new firmware. CPU and RAM typically also need voltages like 2.1V, 1.8V and so on.