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Official Computer Audiophile Windows 8 Thread


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A few notes so far.

 

 

JRiver Media Center 18 works well.

 

Windows 8 Professional is required for Microsoft Remote Desktop.

 

Most USB drivers won't install without using compatibility mode on the 32 bit version.

- Right click Setup File > Properties > Compatibility Tab > Check Run this program in compatibility mode for: > Select Windows 7.

 

I haven't been able to install any USB drivers on the 64 bit version.

 

Native USB 3.0 drivers.

 

No Start button.

 

Interface takes a while to get used to, but once setup it doesn't really matter for a music server.

 

Services and programs galore running in the background.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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A few notes so far...

Does it support USB Audio 2.0 out of the box or are drivers still needed?

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I'd like to get a general impression from users of the OS - in addition to music server comments - some comments about general usability as a PC.

 

Reviews in the press (see David Pogue in the NYT and others) have not been so complimentary. Most of the complaints seem to be around the "problem" that the OS is sort of schizophrenic: has the "Metro" touch screen interface and the desktop interface, but doesn't let you exclusively use either - some functions only in "Windows 8 mode", others work only in desktop mode.

 

Is this a problem?

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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A few notes so far.

 

 

I haven't been able to install any USB drivers on the 64 bit version.

 

Native USB 3.0 drivers.

 

Services and programs galore running in the background.

 

No installable drivers on 64 bit, no native USB 2.0 drivers (they just skipped from 1 to 3, eh? and the native 3.0 drivers aren't backward-compatible?) and a bunch of stuff to turn off in the OS are all sizable botherations for me - especially the 64 bit thing, that would just be a non-starter.

 

I held on to Windows 2000 until Windows 7 came out (skipping Millenium/Me, XP, and Vista), and I think I will hold on to Win 7 for the time being as well.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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I'd like to get a general impression from users of the OS - in addition to music server comments - some comments about general usability as a PC.

 

Reviews in the press (see David Pogue in the NYT and others) have not been so complimentary. Most of the complaints seem to be around the "problem" that the OS is sort of schizophrenic: has the "Metro" touch screen interface and the desktop interface, but doesn't let you exclusively use either - some functions only in "Windows 8 mode", others work only in desktop mode.

 

Is this a problem?

 

Hi firedog - Most of the negative attention has more to do with people's natural reaction to change. Most people hate change. What, remove my start button that I've been using for 17 years since August 24, 1995 (Windows 95)!!!

 

Microsoft has made Windows 8 an OS that hides everything from end users. For most people clicking on the big blocks will be great. People who like to get under the covers of the OS will be a little frustrated at first but I've figured out ways to get around nearly everything. It's just a new way to do things. The Metro screen is very similar to Apple's Launchpad. Most Apple users no nothing about how the OS works or about behind the scenes OS business. It works great for an OS that has never exposed all the options to all users, not Microsoft has to get people to forget about the distractions of using a traditional PC and just use it as a tool to get things done or watch movies etc...

 

With a little customization the "power user" or savvy user can get used to Windows 8. The tough part is the fact that Windows 7 is a really good OS and the desire to upgrade just to upgrade always fights the desire for homeostasis.

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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No installable drivers on 64 bit, no native USB 2.0 drivers (they just skipped from 1 to 3, eh? and the native 3.0 drivers aren't backward-compatible?) and a bunch of stuff to turn off in the OS are all sizable botherations for me - especially the 64 bit thing, that would just be a non-starter.

 

I held on to Windows 2000 until Windows 7 came out (skipping Millenium/Me, XP, and Vista), and I think I will hold on to Win 7 for the time being as well.

 

Hi Jud - In the last 24 hours I've made real progress figuring stuff out with the final RTM version and talking to a few people about what's going on. The deal with 64 bit drivers is a Code Signing Enforcement issue. The USB drivers have unsigned code/drivers. The 32 bit version just asks if the user wants to install. The 64 bit version doesn't even let the user decide. USB DAC manufactures will have to update their drivers for 64 bit Win 8. Or, there is a round about process to install unsigned drivers that involves rebooting into a mode that ignores this signed code enforcement policy, installing the driver, then restarting into normal mode. Roundabout for now but it's possible.

 

The USB 2.0 drivers are Class 2.0 Audio not USB 2.0 as most people think of it. Microsoft elected not to natively support it for some reason. I guess it's no change from Windows 7 on this front.

 

Windows 8 does natively support USB 3.0 (NOT Class 3.0 Audio). This is a great thing for people using the SOtM PCIe card. No need to install sketchy TI drivers.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I held on to Windows 2000 until Windows 7 came out (skipping Millenium/Me, XP, and Vista), and I think I will hold on to Win 7 for the time being as well.

 

Me too, and I am still not happy with Windows 7.

 

Chris's description of what one has to do about the driver signing issue, is like a black magic ritual right out of Hogwarts !

 

Seriously, it is nothing like anything most Windows folks are are used to. I've had my share of troubleshooting and configuration on my own PCs, and some on servers at work. But this Win 8 stuff is nothing like that. Looks like a big learning (and unlearning) curve. To what purpose ?

 

Fortunately I do most of my computer stuff on a Mac :)

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Been using Windows 8 release code since it came out for devs, technet, corporate users and msdn subscribers on Sept 1. It works very well for me, but I use hdmi audio output not usb. This enables me to have multichannel PCM, DSD, et. al. It still does not natively support output over 2 interfaces at the same time, but will allow software to drive multiple interfaces if it is programmed in. I created a very rudimentory player to test it, and it does work... now if only jriver and foobar2000 would do this...

 

The storage pool is an excellent addition for your network storage server and the boot times are phenominal. The network stack is greatly improved as is file handling. User interface religion aside, I like windows 8.

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No installable drivers on 64 bit, no native USB 2.0 drivers (they just skipped from 1 to 3, eh? and the native 3.0 drivers aren't backward-compatible?) and a bunch of stuff to turn off in the OS are all sizable botherations for me - especially the 64 bit thing, that would just be a non-starter.

 

I held on to Windows 2000 until Windows 7 came out (skipping Millenium/Me, XP, and Vista), and I think I will hold on to Win 7 for the time being as well.

 

same here. Windows 7-64 works good for my needs.

The Truth Is Out There

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No installable drivers on 64 bit, no native USB 2.0 drivers (they just skipped from 1 to 3, eh? and the native 3.0 drivers aren't backward-compatible?) and a bunch of stuff to turn off in the OS are all sizable botherations for me - especially the 64 bit thing, that would just be a non-starter.

 

I held on to Windows 2000 until Windows 7 came out (skipping Millenium/Me, XP, and Vista), and I think I will hold on to Win 7 for the time being as well.

 

Then, OS developers are against us, crazy compute audiophiles (CCA®)???

 

Mac Lion removed integer mode capability...

 

Windows 8 are moving to USB 3, and not fair support to USB 2.0...

 

Hackintosh forums are warning us about Win 8 for this...

 

Should I move to plain Linux? I don't believe so, I don't like the interface.

 

Then I'll stay under Mountain Lion 10.8.1, no iTunes. (I'm building my own music database, File Maker Pro® based). And stay also on Audirvana Plus 1.3.9.10 (V1 or V2).

 

I will not buy another DAC trying to match USB 3.0 !

 

This remembered me a very close friend, 5 times married (now with a fiancé). Some time ago I had serious problems with my actual and only wife. He called me and said "Please stay with R..., at this time of my life (it was on his fourth wife) I think I should stayed with the first one..."

 

Roch

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I'm still in Windows 8 Preview release, but amanged to buy and format-for-USB-boot-drive-clean-install my $40 Windows 8 pro full version.

 

Yes, the "safe mode" process of booting into Windows mode called "disable Windows Digital Signature Verification" is a somewhat PITA, but after that I have had no issues whatsoever with installing 64 bit drivers. Now I feel I have control (thanks to Chris and TJHub) with my incredibly wonderful sounding Windows 8 CAPS V2+ music server (full thread here and on Audio Circle). I truly believe this version of Windows is the best sounding OS I've come across, at least in my small world (vs Mac Mini and OSX's SL, Lion and Mtn Lion..or Linux's Voyage MPD via Auraliti or Alix). My server is headless so I use Splashtop (VNC) but may revert to simpler Remote Desktop since I use my iPad for jremote but very seldom for any keyboard intensive servicing via the iPad's Spalshtop version.

 

I have tweaked several sections of Windows 8 (features, security, services) and in each case found less is more..except when I went to do the Upgrade Assistant to buy the full Win 8 Pro. I had to re-enable services to do that or my download wouldn't work. Took me 20 minutes to undo what i had done, no big deal.

 

The first thing one notices is no start menu, no real easy way to restart and shutdown (for changes to take place), etc. But soon things like alt-f4 become your friend. And I have it now so any real major servicing is a thing of the (recent) past. The music server is 24/7 now.

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Hi

 

I had issues initially tying to load the vlink 192 drivers, on a Mac Mini running the 64bit version of the pre release version under boot camp. ( well someone had to try didn't they)

 

However I persevered through the advanced settings to force windows to run it under compatibility mode. After several tries, and each time telling windows it didn't work it did.

 

The result was win8 running under boot camp with MC18 and the vlink 192 drivers all happily playing together. Roll on the OSi version of MC though.

 

Iwf

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For those who are put off by the Metro interface, I can't recommend ClassicShell (see note #11, above, for link) enough. It's free and it makes Metro completely irrelevant. My desktop looks suspiciously like XP (from which I upgraded). I am tech-curious enough to know that I will play around with Metro at some point, but, for now, I have not lost productivity to the upgrade nearly as much as I feared I would.

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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Sorry for maybe stupid question, what native class 2 support means... I will still need drivers for my HiFace EVO in Win 8, and if native was supported I could use EVO without drivers?

Or I'm missing something.

 

 

Hi Music Matters - That's not a stupid question. Let me know if this help or only serves to confuse :~)

 

USB Audio Classes are completely different from USB specifications 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, and 3.0 that most people are see every day.

 

 

USB Specifications:

The original USB 1.0 specification, which was introduced in January 1996, defined data transfer rates of 1.5 Mbit/s "Low Speed" and 12 Mbit/s "Full Speed". The first widely used version of USB was 1.1, which was released in September 1998. The 12 Mbit/s data rate was intended for higher-speed devices such as disk drives, and the lower 1.5 Mbit/s rate for low data rate devices such as joysticks.

 

 

The USB 2.0 specification was released in April 2000 and was ratified by the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) at the end of 2001. Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Lucent Technologies (now Alcatel-Lucent), NEC and Philips jointly led the initiative to develop a higher data transfer rate, with the resulting specification achieving 480 Mbit/s, a forty times increase over the original USB 1.1 specification.

 

The USB 3.0 specification was published on 12 November 2008. Its main goals were to increase the data transfer rate (up to 5 Gbit/s), to decrease power consumption, to increase power output, and to be backwards-compatible with USB 2.0. USB 3.0 includes a new, higher speed bus called SuperSpeed in parallel with the USB 2.0 bus. For this reason, the new version is also called SuperSpeed. The first USB 3.0 equipped devices were presented in January 2010.

(source: Wikipedia)

 

 

 

USB Audio Classes:

USB Audio Classes for the purposes of this discussion are like a subset of the USB Specifications except the Audio Classes dive very deep into audio playback. Most people recognize the USB Audio Classes by support for different sample rates and the need for device drivers on certain operating systems.

 

USB Audio Class 1 supports up to 24/96 using native device drivers from most operating systems like OS X, Windows, and Linux.

 

USB Audio Class 2 supports up to 24/192 (possibly higher?) using native device drivers from operating systems like OS X 10.6.4+, and some versions Linux.

 

 

 

The thing about Windows 8 that is disappointing is this was a chance for Microsoft to implement native Class 2 USB Audio support in the OS but it mustn't have been a good business decision for MSFT.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I just installed drivers for Musical Fidelity V-Link192 on a 64-bit Windows 8 without problems. Since the installer checks Windows version, Windows 7 compatibility mode needs to be selected to make the installer proceed.

 

Due to some WASAPI changes in Win8, I recommend more strongly than before to use ASIO drivers if available. Luckily MuFi V-Link192 comes with proper ASIO drivers, so no problems.

 

Took me less than five minutes to get the drivers and player installed on freshly installed 64-bit Win8 machine. The start menu disappearance is not such a big deal, since lower-left corner anyway acts as a "start button" on Win8 too.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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