Civility

[Paul R]

Ok, let's consider a different example: Apple OS X tweaking. Although I know a lot less about audio than most folks here, I have spent a lot of time with OS X, so I thought instead of arguing about whether tweaking OS X was necessary or even a good idea, I focused on trying to help others to do what they wanted to do with OS X tweaks, made a few shell scripts, blog posts, and so on.

 

I guess that is civilized. [/Quote]

 

I would call that civilized, but more, I would call that kind.

 

-Paul

[Jay192]

Politeness, civility or decorum issues seem to get discussed with such regularity that perhaps they need their own sub-forum!!

[Julf]

I've said what I have to say.

 

Clearly not. But that's OK... We are not big on truthiness...

[Julf]

I am morally certain

 

We know

[souptin]

To the community at large, I apologize if I offended any. It was not my intent. I can also assure all I have absolutely no financial interest in the company or any other high end audio.

 

Hi Priaptor. Thanks for the comment, and the interesting bit of background. Having recently replaced my TT cartridge I can easily understand the appeal of having someone with medical/surgical skills come and set it up - darn things can be insanely fiddly. I also got interested in audio way back in the 80s. I recall the magazines started writing about cables as being worth some attention, but that it was quite difficult to find dealers stocking a selection for you to see & try. Personally I just wanted something that was better made than the flimsy generic options, but I can understand how the market grew in response to people like me. Pet hate was having to repeatedly re-solder my mate's guitar cable, which was nicknamed, with some foresight, "monster cable" on account of it's absurdly massive girth, which was in sharp contrast to the pitiful few strands of grubby looking metal inside it.

 

But anyway, thanks also for putting to rest any lingering doubts mistaking your enthusiasm for stealth marketing. Personally I don't always find it easy to sort out personal accounts from press releases, ditto the measurements vs hearing, science vs technobabble etc. So I welcome it when people bring their own fields of expertise and experience into play and start asking questions and adding observations.

 

I figure we should all be grown up enough to be able to handle a bit of disagreement. As demonstrated by the civilised discussion taking place right here.

 

ps - I did literally LOL (well, quietly) at "You pathetic propeller heads". I get that it came from some frustration, but it was also pretty funny. I don't see any particular need to apologise for it, though of course I can't speak for the *ahem* "self-proclaimed" propeller heads here. Would it be un-civil or provocative of me to suggest you adopt it as your slogan to go under your user name?

[wgscott]

@Paul: sshhh -- you will ruin my reputation.

 

@souptin:

 

[Paul R]

Did I forgot to include you in that comment? Shame on me!

 

We know

[souptin]

F**k me, that's awesome!

 

[video=youtube;FPvDGjGlz-s]

[Jud]

I don't have the faintest idea who is, but I am morally certain neither you nor I is the smartest guy in this "room." It is probably one of those silent thousands of people out there who read everything but do not post.

 

-Paul

 

You can stop wondering, it's me.

 

 

;-P

[esldude]

You can stop wondering, it's me.

 

 

;-P

 

Finally, we know.

 

Okay Jud how should this be handled?

 

And I suppose we do/don't need to discuss whether the smartest person is always right or was that whole smartness thing a red herring there?

[Blake]

Relativity.

 

This forum is a virtual hippie commune compared to the Teton Gravity Research forum (backcounty skiing blog in which I participate). You gotta "nut up" if you are going to post on that forum because you are guaranteed to be crucified from time to time.

[Jud]

Finally, we know.

 

Okay Jud how should this be handled?

 

And I suppose we do/don't need to discuss whether the smartest person is always right or was that whole smartness thing a red herring there?

 

Scarlet as can be.

 

I do have some thoughts, but they'll have to wait 'til later.

[Paul R]

Hey now - Red Herrings have their purposes! Better than bloodletting, virtual or not!

-Paul

 

 

Scarlet as can be.

 

I do have some thoughts, but they'll have to wait 'til later.

[mitchco]

Relativity.

 

This forum is a virtual hippie commune compared to the Teton Gravity Research forum (backcounty skiing blog in which I participate). You gotta "nut up" if you are going to post on that forum because you are guaranteed to be crucified from time to time.

 

 

Well, hey, that's like, just your opinion maaaannnnnn! ;-)

[Blake]

the Dude!

[shum3s]

Why? Bill Scott usually does a great job of making his opinion clear without making an ass of himself. At least unless he intentionally decides to do so.

 

You twist the point and meaning with your questions to a point of view satisfying to your sensibilities.

 

Ask instead, why do you feel your opinion is so valuable that you think it is justified to bully someone else? Why do you think that I, or Barry, or anyone else here needs to be protected from fraud in this subject area? What makes you believe that I, or Barry, or anyone else wants that kind of protection? What decree makes it okay for you to pass judgement on other people's ideas for me? Did I ask you to? Did anyone ask you to?

 

That isn't to say you don't have a lot of bright ideas, and it is enjoyable sometimes discussing them with you. But you did ask, and the answer is you need to ask yourself different questions.

 

I don't have the faintest idea who is, but I am morally certain neither you nor I is the smartest guy in this "room." It is probably one of those silent thousands of people out there who read everything but do not post.

 

- "It is probably one of those silent thousands of pepole out thre who read everything but (rarely post) do not post"

 

Thanks Paul or the compliment!!! Sam

[wdw]

Whew...that was a ride...everyone settled down? Propeller heads OK?

Tomorrow we're ready to start again?

 

Happy Listening.

[chg]

Yes, but that is a fact. Facts are merely inconveniences when you are filled with Righteous Moral Indignation.

 

Julf,

You're always advocating discussions involve purely "fact" and you decry subjectivity. There is a site that follows that exact formula called Hydrogen Audio, yet you're always here instead of there. That tells me that you dislike interacting with hard-line fact oriented objectivists just like the rest of us. I'm genuinely interested in hearing why you are here and not there. The only answer I can come up with is you just like to argue. Hydrogen sounds, to me, like it would be your dream site. I'm not trying to make a suggestion, I'm just making a logical observation.

[chg]

Well, it is also about what we (well, Chris, above all) want CA to be. Yet another cosy social corner for exchanging your listening experiences, or a valuable resource and source of knowledge for people interested in computer audio

 

Smart enough to debate the technical issues, but unable to use common sense in the most simple concepts. Of course, both examples should exist. The problems are, as stated a hundred times, when a small group continually attack every day/all day any hint of subjective discussion. No offense, but why can't you get that?

[chg]

If it is to the point that a large majority of the posters or Chris doesn't wish to allow calling BS on BS then I for one would simply leave.

 

You would simply leave! That would be a darn shame. I doubt that that's even possible. You would then actually have to find something else to do with your time.

 

Of course you would "simply leave", if you were no longer able to act as the self-appointed BS police. With that comment you just confirm that that's really your only interest here on CA. If you can't call BS on everything and run around spreading your objectivist agenda (everyday/all day) then CA is of no other value to you. The same can be said of Julf who agreed with your "simply leave" statement commenting "likewise". But, it was no secret that that's all both of you seem to be interested in here.

 

If I were Chris I would be more concerned about losing people like Barry than to lose a few of you characters, especially when it's apparent that you're more interested in contributing to trouble rather than assistance. This site is fortunate to have Barry's participation, and what do a few of you do… act disrespectful. I can't believe that someone, if they were truly interested in CA, would put a respected expert like BD on their ignore list, and on top of that publicize it.

[4est]

Smart enough to debate the technical issues, but unable to use common sense in the most simple concepts. Of course, both examples should exist. The problems are, as stated a hundred times, when a small group continually attack every day/all day any hint of subjective discussion. No offense, but why can't you get that?

 

chg:

 

Give it up, you are talking to a brick wall, and it is most likely not lack of common sense, but self righteous indignation.

 

From what I have seen, it is like the semi smart kid that was always bringing up the exceptions and fact checking in an attempt to prove himself. Never realizing that he was bogging down the entire class with stupid shit, and that everyone thought him as a putz.

 

Some do not understand courtesy, others do not care...

[chg]

chg:

 

Give it up, you are talking to a brick wall, and it is most likely not lack of common sense, but self righteous indignation.

 

From what I have seen, it is like the semi smart kid that was always bringing up the exceptions and fact checking in an attempt to prove himself. Never realizing that he was bogging down the entire class with stupid shit, and that everyone thought him as a putz.

 

Some do not understand courtesy, others do not care...

 

A teenage Julf in one of his classes... I'd pay to see that.

 

How about the kid with hand in the air oh! oh! oh! Mrs.xxx oh! oh! oh!, desperate to answer every single question. One of those in every class.

[Paul R]

Yes, but that is a fact. Facts are merely inconveniences when you are filled with Righteous Moral Indignation

 

Julf,

You're always advocating discussions involve purely "fact" and you decry subjectivity. There is a site that follows that exact formula called Hydrogen Audio, yet you're always here instead of there. That tells me that you dislike interacting with hard-line fact oriented objectivists just like the rest of us. I'm genuinely interested in hearing why you are here and not there. The only answer I can come up with is you just like to argue. Hydrogen sounds, to me, like it would be your dream site. I'm not trying to make a suggestion, I'm just making a logical observation.

 

I suspect the quote you read might have been just another dig at me, but it honestly doesn't matter. It's like feeding a troll to reply to that kind of stuff, and it is best ignored. Sooner or later people will get tired of paying attention to people who only post stuff like that.

 

In the meantime, yes, it is certainly tiresome to have so many discussions everywhere on the system rudely stomped on - as indeed was one of the original points of this thread. And yes, it is, or at least can be a learning experience, for everyone. Some may be slower to learn than others.

 

You might think of it like this; here some folks appear to be big fish in a small pond, while on the gasbag forum, they would be little fish in a much bigger pond - like minnows swiming with the sharks. It is easier to compete against some of the folks here because, well- because people here listen.

 

That is a matter of manners, politeness, and civility. You do not find a lot of that in say, the gasbag forums, though of course, it does exist there in some measure.

 

I think CA is pretty unique by that measure; most people here are naturally polite, and want to listen to what other people have to say. They certainly do not always agree with each other, but usually manage to disagree without bruising each others feelings. It's a good expression of what I think Chris envisioned when he started the joint.

 

So really, the best measure is to just ignore posts driven by the big fish little pond syndrome. Like the one you originally replied to. If you find you just can't, then the ignore list works pretty well, at the cost of missing some interesting comments.

 

As an aside, I find it amusing some of our non-US brethren feel their societies are more tolerant and free thinking than the U.S. is, but apoear to have much more restricted rights of expression than ours. The video that half the muslim world is rioting and killing people about would have been illegal in most of Europe for example. Here, people just find it in poor taste, but certainly nothing to get upset over.

 

In other words, there are real culture differences in play too. As usual, American, Brits, and Canadians are probably going to have to be the ones that cut some slack. Common "dinner conversation" in other parts of the world would start fistfights, or worse, here. I suspect the reverse is also true.

 

I wonder how much that will change as the Chinese become more and more dominant in World affairs? The way they think, now that they are "on top of the heap" so to speak, is going to make a ton of changes in world affairs very quickly.

 

Just my $0.02. Can you see the teeth gleaming of that pirahanna fishie circling over there? (grin)

 

-Paul

[Julf]

Tomorrow we're ready to start again?

 

Seems so, yes. And as usual, it's that pesky group of hardcore objectivists that have crapped all over this thread again.

[chg]

Can you see the teeth gleaming of that pirahanna fishie circling over there? (grin)

 

-Paul

 

Yes, I certainly do.

 

I get you're meaning, i.e. big fish small pond. Some around here think they're Weiss, Pass, Johnson rolled into one, minus the accomplishments.