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Budget integrated amplifier with onboard DAC for Dali Zensor 1 speakers?


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I had my first foray into hi-fi territory when I recently bought a Denon M39 with Dali Zensor 1 speakers. It sounds great - relative to what I was used to. But I know that before too long I'm going to outgrow it (its happening already …. ) and I'll want to swap the micro-system for some separates. Now I mostly play music out of my laptop. This is being piped via an airport express into the Denon with iTunes/Audirvana being the player and using mostly ALAC, FLAC, MP3 and AAC files. I don't really need a CD player and I can't see myself really wanting to use that format again on a regular basis.

 

I'm looking to swap my Micro for a good integrated amplifier - either with an inbuilt DAC or a separate amplifier and DAC.

 

1)The amp should be integrated and should be decent enough that I don't feel like an upgrade for a few years.

2) Its should pair well with the speakers.

3) Also since the primary source is computer audio, I think the DAC is important. The idea of an internal DAC appeals to me, but I'll be happy to sacrifice it if I can get a decent DAC with amp with same or better value and options as I can see a completely integrated package reduces my options. Second hand is fine.

4) I'm looking at a budget of £400 - 500 max

5) Must accept ALAC and FLAC source

 

I was looking at the ….

 

Cambridge Audio 651A - apparently has a decent onboard DAC but some bad reviews ??

Rega Brio - R - Great Reviews on What Hifi but worried about cruddy cosmetics ( although chrome finish looks quite decent) and lack on inputs esp. optical in

NAD 356BEE - but I guess optional dac would push the price up a bit?

Rotel RA11 - sounds great! but specifications don't mention support for FLAC or ALAC??

 

 

I'm also open to separate DAC and amp solutions as I understand that approach has its advantages

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I'm looking to swap my Micro for a good integrated amplifier - either with an inbuilt DAC or a separate amplifier and DAC.

My first question is have you considered connecting the laptop directly to the Denon. A couple of options would be a USB to SPDIF converter (supporting TOSLink) such as Musical Fidelity's V-Link (MkI or MkII but not the 192 version). Or add a DAC such as Cambridge Audio's DACMagic 100. This would be your cheapest option and may be as good as replacing the amplifier if it drives your speakers well already.

 

1) The amp should be integrated and should be decent enough that I don't feel like an upgrade for a few years.

2) Its should pair well with the speakers.

The first point is very subjective, the second less so and all (at least most) of the amplifiers you listed should drive the speakers well.
3) Also since the primary source is computer audio, I think the DAC is important. The idea of an internal DAC appeals to me, but I'll be happy to sacrifice it if I can get a decent DAC with amp with same or better value and options as I can see a completely integrated package reduces my options. Second hand is fine.
One option may be to spend most/all of your budget on a DAC and use either the Denon D-M39 as the amplifier or a good/cheap second hand amplifier.
4) I'm looking at a budget of £400 - 500 max.
Should be sufficient to get something decent.
5) Must accept ALAC and FLAC source
The ability to accept ALAC / FLAC is actually a red herring. If you are connecting a computer via USB then its the computer that has to support ALAC / FLAC that's important. A few amplifiers have the ability to connect a USB stick direct and it's using it this way that file format support is important.

 

I was looking at the ….

Cambridge Audio 651A - apparently has a decent onboard DAC but some bad reviews??

First off, while the 651A does have a USB input, it is very limited. I would consider it a bonus feature for occasional use (for someone adding Spotify or internet radio via a laptop on an occasional basis) rather than as an alternative for a dedicated DAC. For one thing its input is limited to 16/44.1-48 which will play only CD resolution. If you were looking at the Cambridge Audio then I think you would very quickly also be looking at adding a separate DAC. From Cambridge Audio you'd probably be better off with the 351A and a DAC Magic 100.
Rega Brio - R - Great Reviews on What Hifi but worried about cruddy cosmetics ( although chrome finish looks quite decent) and lack on inputs esp. optical in
Great amplifier, but thats it. No DAC so you would need to add that - Rega's own DAC (again very good) is another £500 plus £100+ for a USB convertor.
NAD 356BEE - but I guess optional dac would push the price up a bit?
Probably pushing your budget as the NAD 356BEE is (RRP) £595) and the DAC module is another £195
Rotel RA11 - sounds great! but specifications don't mention support for FLAC or ALAC??
As I say above, there is no need to worry about FLAC or ALAC support as you'll be connecting a computer which will take care of that for you. The Rotel is probably closest (that you've listed) to being perfect for your requirements. The downside of the Rotel is there is no USB input - £100 for a Musical Fidelity V-Link or M2Tech HiFace 2 will solve that issue for you.

 

Another options...

Teac A-H01 Silver - available from Richer Sounds for only £250 (I hope I assumed right you are in UK?) a small amp (like your Denon), similar power output to the Denon also so should drive your speakers well. Possibly the best option under £500 for an integrated amp with DAC and USB input.

 

If looking at separate DAC and amplifier then there are literally 100s of combinations to choose from...

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I'm also open to separate DAC and amp solutions as I understand that approach has its advantages[/font][/color]

 

I'd clearly go for separates. Amplifiers by now are a mature technology, except for better Class D I don't see any major advances here in the next 5 to 10 year.

 

DACs however are in a state of flux. In the last 2 years, the sector has exploded, and we don't see an end to this yet. In 5-10 years the market will look completely different.

 

So get my recommendation would be in this price range, get a good integrated, and a separate budget DAC, from the many that have been discussed here on the forum (Audioquest Dragonfly etc.), and then upgrate the latter in a couple of years.

 

The plan B, if you're willing to spend a little bit more could be to get a DAC that has a decent digital volume control and then go for a power amplifier only, like the Exposure 2010s2 power or the Audiolab 8200P.

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Wow thanks! This is just incredible information. I'm being edjikated yo!

 

Eloise I have not tried plugging in the computer directly due to a lack of the USB/Toslink connect. I have plugged in my iPod directly to the USB though and the difference is not audible (with files I was using i.e: alac and mp3) I will definitely get it as it is cheap enough and worth trialling.

 

Having done a fair bit of browsing on various forums, I've hear that spending more/all on a good amp vs. a DAC was the way to go but your post seems to indicate otherwise? Having said that I suspect that there a fair bit of olde world bias out there.

 

I got your points on the FLAC recognition and importance of good USB connect. The Teac AH01 sounds great! The Denon is good but I suspect not the greatest way to drive those speakers.

 

Musicophiile - I get your point regarding the maturing of amp technology vs. DAC. That's something I'm hearing consistently all around. Those 2 amps you mentioned though are out of my price range. Esp. seeing that I'd have to buy an additional DAC as well.

 

OK I'm not absolutely wedded to buying an all in one amp and int. dac if that limits my options. Can you guys recommend any separate good amplifier and DAC combinations for a price of about £400 ( USD 650 ). Eloise I live in Australia but it seems I get get most things shipped here from the States or UK/Europe for a very competitive price vs. buying it here.

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In the entry price range, traditionally NAD and Marantz tend to be best value for money, as you get the benefit of a great audiophile tradition (Björn Edvard Eriksen or Ken Ishiwata) plus the economies of large scale manufacturing. The Rega you mentioned is a great amp as well.

 

At this point in time, I'd probably rather spend a higher % of your funds on the integrated, as this is then most likely there to stay, and only a smaller fraction on the DAC; with the idea that you may consider upgrading in 3-5 years. Ideally, you'll find yourself a local dealer with home loan option, as with amp/speaker there can be synergies, but also disappointments.

 

In terms of <$200 DACs, the usual mentions is stuff like the HRT Streamer or the Project DAC box.

 

Another option would be to get a used "1st generation" DAC off Ebay etc., like the original DAC Magic or MF V-Dac. Many people are upgrading these days, so there's a lot of stuff available.

 

However, in this price range I'd probably be tempted to try one of the less known Asian manufacturers, like Audio-GD, Calyx, Yulong, etc. . There's some firms who are right now building a lot of expertise on this topic, but simply don't have a famous name yet.

 

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 

Calyx Coffee

 

ºÍ§Ó­µ响

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Well I did a bit of impulse buying and got the Dacmagic 100. Even with my so-so years and budget micro, I can tell that its gives a lot of tracks a lovely finish ( although I think occassionally it misses ) Thankfully I'm very happy. I'm going to do a bit of research over the next year and probably sell the M39 and use the money to fund a good amp. Probably a NAD or a Marantz like you mentioned musicophile. I'll be looking for bargains on ebay too!

 

This may be a question for another thread but I've noticed that when I plug USB in the incoming sample rate always shows 192. This seems to stay even when I play tracks that are 44.1, 16.0, 32.0 or whatever. Similarly when I switch to toslink mode it always reads 44.1 as the incoming sample rate ( it is receiving an input from airport express) Can anyone explain why this is?

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Airport Express always sends 44.1 resampling as necessary.

 

Via USB, are you using Mac or Windows?

 

Windows you are stuck (using iTunes) with a fixed sample rate - use J.River as an alternative.

 

iTunes on the Mac is also fixed at the sample rate selected in Audio Midi control panel. Add BitPerfect for £5 from the App Store for output sample rate to follow sample rate of the files. Other options to do the same include Pure Music, Audirvana and Amarra.

 

NAD and Marantz are good options for amps. I would add Rotel and Cambrdge Audio to that list; and if looking at second hand Arcam, Cyrus and Roksan (amongst others).

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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