Oppo BDP-95 issue with Bluray Audio disc

[les pako]

I just purchased the bluray audio disc of Patricia Barber's Modern Cool and was looking forward to hearing the 24/192 stereo mix.

My system includes the Oppo BDP-95 connected to my Naim DAC via coax/spdif. My Oppo was set so that the Coax out was LPCM and the sampling rate was 192. Upon playing the disc I noticed that DAC's hi-def light was not illuminated meaning it wasn't receiving a sampling rate above 48k.

 

I called Oppo who told me that specifically with bluray audio (not DVD-Audio) the coax connection cannot output higher than 48k due to industry restrictions. As HDMI is not part of my system my only choice was to listen through the Oppo analog outs which is not preferable as I'd like to hear things through my Naim DAC with its external power supply.

 

So if I want to hear Modern Cool in all its glory I'm going to have to rip the bluray stereo file.

 

Fellow BDP-95 owners take heed.

 

Les

[tomE]

Thanks for the heads up Les. I don't have any Blu ray discs as yet and may reconsider getting any. If this is an industry restriction I guess it would apply to all Blu ray players. Is ripping them difficult? Anyway, I do have the Barber material on vinyl so that specific example isn't a big deal to me:-)

 

Tom

[orgel]

I guess we can take it as a given that this applies to the BDP-93 as well.

 

Kind of disappointing. I was looking forward to purchasing this Blu-ray, but in order to take advantage of the hi-res content I'd have to (1) purchase Blu-ray Audio Extractor once it's released (not so bad), and (2) purchase a Blu-ray drive (starting to get bad, given the paucity of available Blu-ray audio titles).

 

I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed that Modern Cool and, I hope, other Barber high-res PCMs will show up on HDtracks, Qobuz, or somewhere similar.

 

--David

[les pako]

Thanks for the heads up Les. I don't have any Blu ray discs as yet and may reconsider getting any. If this is an industry restriction I guess it would apply to all Blu ray players. Is ripping them difficult? Anyway, I do have the Barber material on vinyl so that specific example isn't a big deal to me:-)

 

Tom

 

 

Remember this is only for coax (and probably toslink) connections.

 

If you google bluray ripping you'll find numerous options for getting it done. I'm a Mac user and had no trouble finding appropriate software.

 

What got me excited about the PCM 24/192 stereo file on the bluray disc was that Ted_b mentioned that Modern Cool was recorded to PCM. Ted, if you're reading this, where did you get that info?

[accwai]

I just purchased the bluray audio disc of Patricia Barber's Modern Cool and was looking forward to hearing the 24/192 stereo mix.

My system includes the Oppo BDP-95 connected to my Naim DAC via coax/spdif. My Oppo was set so that the Coax out was LPCM and the sampling rate was 192. Upon playing the disc I noticed that DAC's hi-def light was not illuminated meaning it wasn't receiving a sampling rate above 48k.

 

I called Oppo who told me that specifically with bluray audio (not DVD-Audio) the coax connection cannot output higher than 48k due to industry restrictions. [...]

That's actually at the bottom of page 16 in the user manual:

 

Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection [...]

 

If you take this at face value, they don't have enough bandwidth to output multi-channel at higher than 48k, so they down sample the whole thing regardless, even though the player may be in stereo only mode. Perhaps we could suggest to Oppo not to down sample stereo output as a possible improvement in the future.

 

Andy

[les pako]

That's actually at the bottom of page 16 in the user manual:

 

 

 

If you take this at face value, they don't have enough bandwidth to output multi-channel at higher than 48k, so they down sample the whole thing regardless, even though the player may be in stereo only mode. Perhaps we could suggest to Oppo not to down sample stereo output as a possible improvement in the future.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

I did read that section of the manual but didn't think it applied to my situation as I was attempting to play PCM stereo which isn't included in that list as having a limitation. Between that and the fact you can choose LPCM output via coax at 192 led me to think I'd be ok. I don't know how cooperative Oppo will be as their explanation for the down sampling had to do with industry restrictions, not technical issues.

 

P.S. I have not been able to successfully rip the stereo 24/192 files though I've had no trouble with bluray audio 24/96. Any ideas anyone?

[accwai]

[...] I don't know how cooperative Oppo will be as their explanation for the down sampling had to do with industry restrictions, not technical issues. [...]

 

Is Blu-ray audio's industry restrictions explicitly spelled out anywhere? A quick Google search on the topic doesn't seem to yield much solid information. (It doesn't find the current thread though) In any case, the manual also has this at the bottom of page 16:

 

• Due to copyright restrictions, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to SACD, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
  

 

and this:

 

• Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, full resolution audio from DVDAudio discs cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to DVD-Audio in full resolution, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
  

 

So looks like the manual text does make distinction between bandwidth limitation and copyright restriction. And the latter is not mentioned in the case of Blu-ray audio. Assuming, you're taking this at face value of course.

 

So what are Blu-ray audio's industry restrictions exactly?

 

Andy

[ted_b]

Remember this is only for coax (and probably toslink) connections.

 

If you google bluray ripping you'll find numerous options for getting it done. I'm a Mac user and had no trouble finding appropriate software.

 

What got me excited about the PCM 24/192 stereo file on the bluray disc was that Ted_b mentioned that Modern Cool was recorded to PCM. Ted, if you're reading this, where did you get that info?

 

Yes, Modern Cool (and many of PB's catalog) were first trnasferred and edited/mastered in 24 bit PCM. So I was looking forward to hearing PB in true 24 bit, rather than her very-nice-sounding-thank-you SACD's (which went through analog-PCM-DSD) or even her nice redbooks.

 

I am listening to PB's BluRay of Modern Cool in full 24/192. How? I use the very inexpensive HDMi de-embedder solution for now, until I have a BD ripper. The HDMi de-embedder solution is to find a Monoprice or Atlona HDMI de-embedder that takes in HDMi and passes it through to an HDMi back-end (receiver, etc) but in the process grabs the hirez 24 bit content (BluRay LPCM or SACD player downrezzing DSD to 24 bit PCM) and send it out coax or toslink. The boxes are like $50 and some of them do not require an HDMI handshake at the back end (receiver saying "yes I can do 24/192 so send it"). Those simply require a one-time setup to that receiver/processor to memorize the handshake. There may be even some tricks to not have to do that even.

 

I discovered this a couple years ago and wrote extensively about it on my Audio Circle HiRez Circle forum pages. I don't want to publicize other forums here or add links so simply go to AC and find my Circle (subforum called HiRez Music) and you'll see a stickied thread called "Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!". Since I am now fully native DSD capable, I don't do this anymore with SACD, and have so few BluRay audio only discs that my de-embedder gets used sparingly.

[JohnMH]

My guess is this is a DRM issue common to all BluRay discs. Since the Oppo BDP 95 has good DACs I would just hook up to the analog outputs and enjoy. HDMI will pass the DRM handshaking as well, if the receiving device is up to one of the more recent HDMI standards. My understanding is that the Oppo's DAC sections are considered to be very good, so why send to an outboard DAC?

[accwai]

[...] My understanding is that the Oppo's DAC sections are considered to be very good, so why send to an outboard DAC?

Some outboard DACs can be significantly better than merely very good you know...

[les pako]

My guess is this is a DRM issue common to all BluRay discs. Since the Oppo BDP 95 has good DACs I would just hook up to the analog outputs and enjoy. HDMI will pass the DRM handshaking as well, if the receiving device is up to one of the more recent HDMI standards. My understanding is that the Oppo's DAC sections are considered to be very good, so why send to an outboard DAC?

 

 

Hi John,

The Oppo DAC is very good. My Naim DAC with XPS power supply is much better.

[les pako]

 

I am listening to PB's BluRay of Modern Cool in full 24/192. How? I use the very inexpensive HDMi de-embedder solution for now, until I have a BD ripper. The HDMi de-embedder solution is to find a Monoprice or Atlona HDMI de-embedder that takes in HDMi and passes it through to an HDMi back-end (receiver, etc) but in the process grabs the hirez 24 bit content (BluRay LPCM or SACD player downrezzing DSD to 24 bit PCM) and send it out coax or toslink. The boxes are like $50 and some of them do not require an HDMI handshake at the back end (receiver saying "yes I can do 24/192 so send it"). Those simply require a one-time setup to that receiver/processor to memorize the handshake. There may be even some tricks to not have to do that even.

 

Thanks Ted. I'll check into the de-embedder.

 

My frustration has gone up a notch after discovering that my method for extracting LPCM bluray audio (on a Mac) only seems to work for 24/96 and not for 24/192.

[intermediatic]

As I understand it, Oppo's restriction on outputting SACD, DVD-A, and Blu-Ray audio at full resolution is not a bandwitdth limitation but a licensing limitation.

 

I have one of the Monoprice switchers. It works ok, but requires the TV to be on to output sound from my BPD-95. My Cary Audio Xciter DAC is a wee better than my BDP-95's onboard DAC.