usb - v-link192 - m1dac

[kdwykleingeld]

Hi, thanks for this great forum. I have a simple question that i cannot get the answer to ..

 

I have a M1DAC from MF

 

I have a PC that i use with jriver as mediaplayer and that is attached to the M1DAC using USB

 

As far as i can see this usb interface on the computer goes up to 96K and the M1DAC performs upsampling to 192

 

Question:

 

Would there be any added value to add the v-link192 from MF in between my PC and the M1DAC .. connecting the v-link192 by means of s-pdif coaxial to the M1DAC ?

 

I would say no... but i am not sure .. if .. yes .. what would be the added value ?

 

thanks for any replies

 

regards Koen

[phatoldsun]

Welcome to CA. Simple questions don't always have simple answers:)

Which MF M1DAC do you have? If it is the older version (2011) you may benefit from adding the V-link. It essentially provides a cleaner path from PC to DAC (grossly simplified) by providing an asynchronous connection. I believe the newer M1DAC has an asynchronous USB connection built in so I wouldn't imagine the VLINK helping.

 

I have an original 96k V link between my MacMini and my Marantz receiver and it made a noticeable improvement in focus, clarity and soundstage vs. a direct optical connection.

 

Chris C. reviews the original VLink and M1DAC here:

Computer Audiophile - Musical Fidelity M1DAC, M1HPA, and V-Link Async USB Converter Review

 

There are other positive reviews of the 192 VLink on this forum you can search for too.

 

Have fun!

[crisnee]

As far as i can see this usb interface on the computer goes up to 96K and the M1DAC performs upsampling to 192

 

Hi Koen,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You seem to be saying that the computer is only capable of putting out 96khz but that the dac can accept 192khz. That doesn't really make sense to me. But in any case, if the dac is capable of accepting 192 via USB, there's no real reason to duplicate that ability with the V-link, unless you know that the V-link's USB implementation is better than the M1Dac's.

 

Anyway, you're probably talking about minor differences at best. How good is the rest of your system and is the price of the V-link just spare change to you or a significant expense? If it's a significant expense I might look in other places to put the money as it might make more of a difference.

 

-Chris

[HiFiInsider]

I understand what you're saying and I own both. I do find the 192 feeding AES input on the M1 yield a much better performance than either the M1 USB and original v-link to M1. Hope this helps.

[crisnee]

I understand what you're saying and I own both. I do find the 192 feeding AES input on the M1 yield a much better performance than either the M1 USB and original v-link to M1. Hope this helps.

 

This is one of those responses that bugs me (nothing personal HiFiGuy) on audio forums. It tells you almost nothing, but makes it sound like you've really got to buy the new converter. I'm sure that's not what to you mean to say HiFiGuy but....

 

How much better is much better? What is better about what? What's the difference in SQ? What does better mean to you? What kind of system/setup do you have? What you're saying is vague and virtually meaningless, but yet sounds so good. Sorry HiFiGuy, this is not directed only at you, but all the similar answers one get on Audio forums that gets people to feel they should make purchases that they often end up regretting.

 

-Chris

[kdwykleingeld]

hi good morning to all ! Thanks for your great replies.

 

I have bought the M1DAC in may 2012 so its the model providing asynchronous USB i would assume. Is there some way to recognize if i really have the 2012 or the 2011 model ? I also have the M6i Amplifier and a pair of B&W CM9 Speakers

 

According to the specs (i quote MF website documentation) the M1DAC accepts the following inputs :

 

 

• 1x XLR AES balanced digital input
  
• 1x RCA coaxial connector SPDIF 32-192 kbps (16-24 bit stereo PCM)
  
• 1x TOSLINK optical connector 32-96 kbps (16-24 bit stereo PCM)
  
• 1x USB type ‘B’ connector for computer/PDA - 16-24 bits, 32-96 kbps (Determined by source file/computer settings)
  

 

I guess they have made a typo here meaning kHz i.s.o. kbps !! ... agree ? imho the maximum bitrate (coax - 24 - 192hKz) would be 24*2*196000=9.216.000 bps

 

According to the MF specs the V-Link192 accepts the following input:

 

Input data: 24 Bit 192kHz USB stream (maximum)

 

And the V-Link192 provides the following outputs :

 

balanced / coax / optical .... although i see no optical on either the pictures on the website or in the documentation.. and i would assume the output being also 24bit 192kHz max over these outputs...

 

So there aree 2 cases :

 

1) if i play a ripped CD (44.1 kHz - 16 bit) from my pc i guess all interfaces on the M1DAC can handle that and there is no need for using the vlink192 since my model is already async

 

BUT ...

 

2) if i play a 192kHz 24 bit file from my PC it would have to be provided to either the COAX or the Balanced input of my M1DAC in order to preserve max signal quality ....

 

So when using the usb interface on the PC this would mean that in that case the v-link192 would make sense in order to convert 192kHz/24 bit USB into 192kHz/24 bit s/pdif over coax / or the balanced output .. in order to satisfy the M1DACs requirements ....

 

And of course the USB 2.0 interface on the PC must be capable of otputting at 192/24..

 

So my conclusion (assuming the 2012 M1DAC model) and purely looking at it from a technical / specs perspective :

 

1) for playing ripped CDS there is no (0.0) added value in the vlink192 in my case

2) for playing HQ 192/24 bit songs there is added value due to m1dac requirements of accepting this only on coax/balanced ports

 

agree ?

 

reg koen

[Audio_ELF]

At a simplest level you need to ask yourself "do I want/need to be able to play 24/192 files?"

 

If the answer is yes then you need to use the V-Link 192 (or another device). However if you are happy with being limited to 24/96 then the DACs capabilities are file.

 

On the other hand there *may* be a sound quality improvement switching to using the V-Link 192 but you would have to demo and decide for yourself if such an improvement was worthwhile for you.

 

Up sampling to 192k is nothing to do with 24/192 files.

 

Eloise

[kdwykleingeld]

hi thanks, i always love it how i can get confused again by , and from there -- learn from, reading forums... i was not talking about upsampling .. lets not discuss whether i am happy with cd or hq files... or if something "may" sound better etc..

 

Just simply looking technically : for me to understand the concepts ...

 

1) If i have a 196/24 bit song

2) and i use USB as output from the PC

3) and i use MF M1DAC for D/A conversion

4) And i want to perform the best possible D/A conversion with the MF M1DAC for this 192/24 bit hq song

 

Than ..

 

5) I would have to provide input to the M1DAC with either COAX or Balanced (since M1DAC USB stops at 96khz) and NOT throogh its USB interface

 

6) So i would need some convertor from 192/24 USB to 192/24 COAX

 

7) So in this case i could use a device such as the vlink192 to act as 192/24 usb to 192/24 s/pdif convertor ... right ?

 

thanks

[ensrettet]

I've had good results using a SOtM dx-USB HD converter to feed my M1DAC (original model) via the AES/EBU input. Wider soundstage and placement of instruments and vocals seems better defined, easier to identify the components. (compared with using coax and a Vlink1)

 

I also have a Vlink 192 which i've not tried with the M1DAC but have tried with my Audiolab MDAC via coax and it suffered drop-outs at the start of tracks. This was before I upgraded the MDAC firmware so this may be resolveable. The MDAC reported a small difference in the frequency compared with the direct async USB connection (maybe the reclocking is part of the timing issue).

 

The June 2012 issue of hi-fi news has a USB DAC review where they gave the M1A DAC "highly commended" and reported that the async USB had a low jitter of 14ps. For material of higher resolution than 24/96, the balanced input, fed by a USB-S/PDIF converter would be the way to go.

If you can get a demo model (converter) on loan to try before you buy, even better.

[kdwykleingeld]

hi, thanks for your reply. I conclude my (technical) assumtoions are right ..

 

So a 192/24 usb-spdif convertor is the only way to get native 192/24 data into my m1dac when using usb to output from the PC..

 

thanks reg koen

[crisnee]

I'm pretty sure that JRiver will allow you to down sample 192 files to 96khz, so if you don't have many you can always use that option for the time being.

 

-Chris

[kdwykleingeld]

hi, ok i understand that.. i was just wondering (technically) what the usage of the vlink192 in my case would be in order to keep the signal quality to the max throughout the whole chain.. it is now clear to me ..

 

Thanks

[Audio_ELF]

Just simply looking technically : for me to understand the concepts ...

 

1) If i have a 196/24 bit song

[...]

4) And i want to perform the best possible D/A conversion with the MF M1DAC for this 192/24 bit hq song

 

Than ..

 

5) I would have to provide input to the M1DAC with either COAX or Balanced (since M1DAC USB stops at 96khz) and NOT throogh its USB interface

 

6) So i would need some convertor from 192/24 USB to 192/24 COAX

 

7) So in this case i could use a device such as the vlink192 to act as 192/24 usb to 192/24 s/pdif convertor ... right ?

 

thanks

Yes... That's completely right!

[Downrange]

The real issue is, what resolution will the rest of your system provide? Frankly, the V-Link 192 is so good, that, unless you're rolling with somewhere around 15K plus in equipment, you're never going to get close to what it's actually delivering. It makes CD sound better than most mid-fi systems do 24/192...

[kdwykleingeld]

hi, thanks, and looking to what you pump into the vlink192 over usb 2.0.....

 

...does adding stuff like "sata filters", "linear power supplies for each voltage and device", "special sotm usb cards" , "fan filters" etc.. to a modern / powerfull PC running a proper (memory) media player (such as jriver / foobar etc) playing properly ripped and verified cds (dbpoweramp) and outputting this asynchronously through its native motherboard USB port using proper drivers ..

 

have any potential and /or significant impact on the quality of the sound ... ?? (actually i mean on the quality of the signal that the vlink192 combined with the DAC must make analogue ....

 

thanks

 

regards Koen

 

 

thanks

[liquidsmoke]

Hi 'ensrettet'; I was wondering if you had the chance to try the V-link 192 between USB and M1DAC yet? I'm thinking about this combo.

[Audio_ELF]

Hi 'ensrettet'; I was wondering if you had the chance to try the V-link 192 between USB and M1DAC yet? I'm thinking about this combo.

If you've not already bought the M1DAC; you may want to wait see what Musical Fidelity's M1-SDAC brings (adds 24/192 via USB, pre-amp functionality and headphone amp to the original M1-DAC).

 

Eloise

[liquidsmoke]

Thanks for the heads up. Interesting that, but it seems expensive as I can pick up the M1 DAC and V-link 192 for £500. Seen as I don't need pre-amp ability or bluetooth etc. Plus I'm impatient. lol.