USB to SPDIF converter or USB DAC with current pre\pro DAC

[anubis73]

In looking at USB to SPDIF converters it dawned on me that I might just want to get a USB DAC for a little bit more money. Question is do I need it or how much improvement of SQ would I get with the USB DAC vs. Converter and my current pre\pro DAC? I think I have narrowed my search down to the MF V Link 192 or Audiophilleo 2 for the converters however pretty lost with DACs “if needed”. MF has a M1DAC that sells for approx 750.00 has the features of the V Link 192 with a DAC. I have an Integra DHC 80.3 pre\pro using its DACS right now. I listen to a combination of Hi-REZ music 24/96 and CDS ripped from XLD. I use a Macbook Pro for music server right now with plans on new Mac mini.

 

So any suggestions on either the MF V link 192 or AP2 would be great. Other converter suggestions welcomed. Or Do I scratch the converter and buy a USB DAC because it’s that much better in terms of SQ.

 

Thanks

[bhobba]

So any suggestions on either the MF V link 192 or AP2 would be great. Other converter suggestions welcomed. Or Do I scratch the converter and buy a USB DAC because it’s that much better in terms of SQ.

 

I have checked out many many DAC's over the last few years and only one DAC, a PDX, has a USB input not improved by an external USB converter. The Audiophellio easily bests the V Link - I have checked out many many converters and the Audiophellio is the best value for money option only exceeded by the much more expensive Berkeley, Wavelength, and Off-Ramp.

 

Thanks

Bill

[earflappin]

Bill, I knoW you are a big proponent of the PDX. Can you shed any light on why it fared so poorly in the Darko review of the M51? I know that article talks about a lack of system "synergy", but I'm sure how to interpret that when the other DACs sounded good in the same system. Thanks. The PDX doesn't seem to have much of a following here in the USA.

[BobP63]

I'll second Bill's recommendation of the Audiophellio units, with the Audiophellio 2 being my choice for best value.

[xyz]

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't rely on reviews. There are countless ways that you can mess up by taking advice like that. If you question your own ability to make the decision, try this. Find reviews that you have not read and go listen to the component in question and read the review after demo the component. I think you will be very suprised at what you find.

 

One other thing about the DAC's you are looking at. Nobody every mentions this, but you have to take into account the DAC's analog section. It's just as important as the digital section.

[mayhem13]

There's absolutely no performance design standard that makes USB DACs perform better over other methods of transmission. It's all in the implementation and design choices.

 

I'm not sure there would be a valuable increase in SQ using and external DAC and the analog ins on your Integra Pre. Feeding your Integra a digital signal via USB to SPDIF would be my personal choice if the Integra Pre accepts native 24/96 digitally.

[crimsondonkey]

Given the variety of presentations that different DACs can offer, I'd concentrate on finding one that you like and fits in with your system, rather than focussing on a particular design over another.

 

So unless your one of those who needs to buy on the sole basis of graphs then I would go listen to a few, preferably in your own set up.

[Purite Audio]

The best converter is no converter, I would plump for n async USB or FireWire dac,

Keith.

[BobP63]

The best converter is no converter, I would plump for n async USB or FireWire dac,

Keith.

 

From experiance I'll have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Best to try for yourself, like a number of others on this forum I'm currently feeding my asyncronus USB DAC with a converter and can confirm it has advantages.

[Paul R]

I would definitely try out the V-Link with your existing gear. Generally you can get it with an option to return it if you are unhappy. It does a remarkable job for a very reasonable price. The 192 model will do up to 192k, while the model embedded into the MF-DAC will do up to 96k, so I would not buy the DAC for it's usb capabilities. You really need to hear the things in your own system to decide what sound you like, and how much, if any, difference they make for you.

 

If you are considering the MF-DAC, you might consider spending an extra $150 and look at a Wavelength Proton. On the other end,Audioquest just put out a $250 USB DAC that is supposed to be hot stuff and running high quality USB code from Streamlength. I ordered one but have not listened to it yet, but as a stepping stone to learn about USB sound, it might be a possibility. And I understand it works very well indeed as a headphone amp on a MacBook.

 

Paul

[Purite Audio]

The V link is poorly designed and implemented, one 'clock' not galvonically isolated, async data transfer is technically the best way to transfer timed data, with the usual caveat that it must be properly designed and implemented,

Keith.

[Paul R]

Well, I appreciate your opinion - that isn't my experience with it however. All the V-Link models provide a remarkable improvement to most lower cost DACs, and they are all clearly superior to the USB interface on some DACS ranging up into the 4 significant figures range. For example, any V-Link is far superior to the USB input on the Bryston DAC. The 192K model is quite superior to the original, with XLR output and two clocks, and subsequently, better sound.

 

It's hard to beat the V-Link, V-Link II, or V-Link 192 convertors based upon price and performance. As I said, even the original model makes a significant improvement, even on some middling expensive DACs. That's something, for a $100 box.

 

-Paul

[Rob McCance]

I've got three data points for you.

 

Musical Fidelity V-DAC II - SPDIF input via Audiophilleo sounded magnitudes better that straight USB input. No surprise.

 

NAD M51 - SPDIF input via Audiophilleo sounded magnitudes better that straight USB input here as well. This was surprising given the M51 technical marketing.

 

Metrum Octave - SPDIF input via Audiophilleo sounded much better than the TosLink in, using a short real glass cable. No native USB input on this one.

 

For some reason, a Audiophilleo or Off Ramp type device is superior to straight USB input on nearly all devices. (according to lots of web talk, and my own experience)

[DanRubin]

For some reason, a Audiophilleo or Off Ramp type device is superior to straight USB input on nearly all devices. (according to lots of web talk, and my own experience)

 

Does this mean that USB DACs are inferior to using a USB --> S/PDIF or AES/EBU converter and feeding that to DAC's S/PDIF or AES/EBU input?

[Purite Audio]

Does this mean that USB DACs are inferior to using a USB --> S/PDIF or AES/EBU converter and feeding that to DAC's S/PDIF or AES/EBU input?

 

You have to be more specific, some dacs are surprisingly poorly designed, I would place any NOS dac into this category ,but some people enjoy distortion.

If a dac has a poorly designed/implemented input (any input) then it may well sound better through another.

All methods of data transfer CAn be designed and implemented properly but they seldom are, Aysnc USB is the neatest and technically the best way of transferring timed data.

Keith.

[spacey]

I agree with Keith on this one, I've had lots of SPDIF DAC's with and without USB inputs. Some were better via the SPDIF. However, when using async and a proper galvanically isolated USB2.0 input, it easily surpasses the SPDIF inputs.

[anubis73]

I would like to first thank everyone for the discussion here. My hope is to avoid buying a DAC all together and go with a converter, MF V link 192 or AP2 or……… My thought is my current pre\pro DAC should be pretty good and does go to 192. I guess I’m looking for a little validation on this thinking? I see allot of threads talking about SQ improvements with different DACS so I didn’t really know if I needed to add another component (DAC) to have a large increase in SQ. A Marginal increase does not make sense. Another part of my question is power supply. MF and Audiophilleo offer separate power supplies like MF V-PSUII. Can anyone give me any kind of idea how big of deal a separate power supply is vs USB powered?

 

Also, sorry I’m new how do I add my current equipment at the end of posts like I see with others?

[firedog]

If you like your DAC and are just looking for good quality USB feed, then yes get a converter. Much cheaper than getting a quality DAC. But get the best converter you possibly can afford. If the AP2 is the top of your range, get that. I think you will be pleased with the results.

 

As far as a signature, click on your "Settings" link at the top of the page, the edit signature function is there (assuming you are logged in).

[anubis73]

Firedog - Thanks for sig info

[ecwl]

Anubis,

I may be wrong about this but doesn't the Integra have networking functionality? Have you tried playing a music file using your MacBook Pro as a DLNA music server and using your Integra as a DLNA Media Renderer? How do you find the sound quality compared to Toslink straight from your MacBook? Obviously, you may get better sound with a USB-S/PDIF converter or a new USB DAC but I'm not sure if you can't achieve what you're looking for, using the networking features of the Integra.

[Sumflow]

http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DragonFly-4pg-Brochure-EN-web.pdf

 

supposed to be hot stuff and running high quality USB code from Streamlength. I ordered one..

Why was it you went with this Gordon Rankin design, instead of his Halide Design?

[jhwalker]

http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DragonFly-4pg-Brochure-EN-web.pdf

 

Why was it you went with this Gordon Rankin design, instead of his Halide Design?

 

They are two different devices - one is a portable, high-quality DAC + headphone amplifier (DragonFly), the other is a small, high-quality DAC with RCA out (Halide). Not really for the same purpose at all.

 

Not to say you couldn't use the DragonFly with it's "line-out" feature + splitter to convert to RCA out . . . but if I were looking at a fixed system, I'd be looking at something more like the Halide or other box-based solutions (e.g., Schiit Bifrost).

[Paul R]

Mostly personal experience I suppose. I am impressed with every DAC Gordon deigned and built I have had the pleasure of listening to. I was not impressed with a Devilsound DAC.

 

I do have a Halide Bridge, but find it on a par with the original VLink, when the VLink is used with a synergistic USB cable. In other words, I think Halide might be overpriced a little in comparison to the new competition.

 

Shiit I would buy but for the name, DAC*IT, Dragonfly, etc.

 

We live in really great times you know, we are surrounded by great equipment at great prices, especially for hobbyists!

 

Paul

 

 

In short, I expect the Dragonfly to sound very good and be a bargain the price. I am looking forward to Chris' review of it to, and wondering if it will take a place on the CASH lst. Not having heard it yet, I have no real opinion of course.

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Mostly personal experience I suppose. I am impressed with every DAC Gordon deigned and built I have had the pleasure of listening to. I was not impressed with a Devilsound DAC.

 

I do have a Halide Bridge, but find it on a par with the original VLink, when the VLink is used with a synergistic USB cable. In other words, I think Halide might be overpriced a little in comparison to the new competition.

 

Shiit I would buy but for the name, DAC*IT, Dragonfly, etc.

 

We live in really great times you know, we are surrounded by great equipment at great prices, especially for hobbyists!

 

Paul

 

 

In short, I expect the Dragonfly to sound very good and be a bargain the price. I am looking forward to Chris' review of it to, and wondering if it will take a place on the CASH lst. Not having heard it yet, I have no real opinion of course.

 

I thought the Dragonfly sounded pretty fine at Newport.

[anubis73]

Anubis,

I may be wrong about this but doesn't the Integra have networking functionality? Have you tried playing a music file using your MacBook Pro as a DLNA music server and using your Integra as a DLNA Media Renderer? How do you find the sound quality compared to Toslink straight from your MacBook? Obviously, you may get better sound with a USB-S/PDIF converter or a new USB DAC but I'm not sure if you can't achieve what you're looking for, using the networking features of the Integra.

 

 

ECWL -

The intergra does not regonize the macbook thru cat5 networking, apple does not use DNLA. Integra setup this model to use windows media player only. I think their may be a workaround booting the mac in windows or using something called parallea but I'm trying to avoid this