Rel repair timeline

[wgscott]

You will doubtless remember I purchased a Rel R-218 in early October. It failed on me in February. It started running and even idling very hot (especially since it is a Class D amp), and then failed completely. I brought it back to the shop for a warranty repair, and they turned it over to Sumiko, the distributor.

 

That was well over a month ago now, and after several calls, I was told they were told by Sumiko that a part was shipping by container and would take another couple of weeks to arrive.

 

WTF? Is this standard in high-end audio? I've been fairly patient, but I am starting to get worried. I still have no idea what went wrong with it or anything.

 

At what point would I be justified in asking for my money back? I had originally planned on adding a second one, but this has really put me off.

 

Anyone have any similar experiences, positive or negative, with this distributor or Rel? Any advice?

 

[PeterSt]

No real advice here; all I can say is that shipping a part by container costs about nothing, while doing so by UPS can cost $200 easily. That compared to the price of your REL ...

 

So what I know is that I'd have psychological problems with servicing guarantee by means of spending that $200 while it also could be $10 and send it by normal mail (which could take 4 weeks if it not gets lost at all).

 

Thus, just a sort of explanation; not any advice ...

Regards,

Peter

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

As the interface between you and the distributor, the dealer should let you know what's going on and offer you options fo shipping etc... so there are no surprises. Would it be that hard to talk to the customer and let him know warranty repairs include free shipping by container but other paid shipping options are available? Or even better, does the dealer have a demo unit you can use until your unit is repaired? That may speed up the repair.

 

Maybe I talk to dealers who are the exception to the rule, but they always keep the customer up to date on repairs and almost always offer options to at least make the customer happy until the purchased product is back in the customer's hands in working condition. If absolutely nothing can be done at least there are no surprises about shipping by container etc...

 

[coot]

I am (was?) considering the purchase of a pair. Maybe I should reconsider.

...and maybe they'll read this and shape up.

 

[Paul R]

At is point I would be either demanding a replacement unit or all my money back. And not tomorrow, but *right now*. That's ridiculous. It failed within the warranty period, no?

 

Whatever dealer is pulling that line is one to avoid working with in the future. They should have at least offered you a unit to use while you were waiting for repair.

 

At this point, the unit has been broken longer than it worked!

 

I admit, waiting for some high end gear to be built can seem endless, but REL is stocked market, not custom built, and even custom built, 90 days for a repair is quite unreasonable.

 

Paul

 

 

[Bear]

Sorry about your troubles. Had similar experience with my Martin Logan sub after 2.5 years. They shipped new sub replacement immediately under their 3-year warranty. Was happily up and running in less than a week. REL should be company of same caliber and should offer same type of service. Remember it seems sometimes whoever screams the loudest gets their way so take your gloves off and tell them how it should be handled.

 

[wgscott]

Thanks, everyone, for the advise. It may come as a bit of a surprise to you folks that I actually really hate these kinds of potentially confrontational situations, and have yet to have one go well. So I guess I am a bit chicken-shi'ite. I don't honestly think the dealer (said to be the best in the Bay Area) is yanking my chain, or else they are extremely good at apologizing.

 

As for a loaner, I instead bought a $100 costco one so the kids could watch dinosaur movies, but I haven't felt the need to use it for music...

 

With computers (Apple, Dell), the turnaround time is incredibly fast. I was wondering if things just worked a lot slower in the audio world.

 

[wgscott]

Definitely take a long hard look at the competition, These do cost a lot for what they are.

 

[Akapod]

In the interests of disclosure, I write as a guy who with two RELa, both of which have been working well (and sounding great) for years.

 

I suspect the break-down lies somewhere between your dealer and Sumiko. As your sub-woofer weighs in at 30 lbs. (more with shipping material), I think it's reasonable that Sumiko/REL wouldn't want to fly it to England for repair. But, as Chris noted, they should have let you know (or the dealer) what you were doing.

 

Similarly, your dealer should have been on the ball and asked what the time-frame for repair was. I certainly wouldn't have expected two months.

 

And, at the end of the day, REL should have seen that the model was under warranty, given you a new one and refurbished the defective model.

 

What about contacting REL and letting them know why you're no longer interested in adding a second R-218?

 

[Paul R]

Just state the facts, I bought this on this date, it broke on this date, and you guys have had it here for repair for x number of days. This is unreasonable, I would like either a full refund, or a brand new replacement unit. Today please.

 

And if they say they have to get back to you, remind them they have already had more than sufficient time to do that. Who is the person who will make that decision? Please get them on the line for me.

 

If they waffle or won't give you a name and number, be ready to back yourself up with a call to the consumer affairs division of your state, or the state attorney general's office. Don't threaten, but you can mention that this shameful affair has gone on long enough, and you feel like you are being backed into a corner. They are leaving you with no choice but to ask the state to intervene.

 

Essentially, put any confrontation on their shoulders- you are the wronged party here.

 

Pretend they are difficult students and put them in the position where they can make you happy by doing the right thing.

 

They really should have, you know. This isn't your problem, it is their problem, and you should properly land it right back in their laps to solve. Now.

 

I definitely would not use that dealer again, Perhaps even if they fix this issue immediately. Something is seriously shady in that store.

 

Paul

+44 1656 768 777 is RELs main number. Probably worth a call in the morning to ask them if there is anyone who can investigate and help you out, if the dealer doesn't deal with it immediately today.

 

Or call SUmiko directly and complain at 1 510 843 4500.

 

 

 

 

[REShaman]

wgscott,

I purchased two brand new JL Audio F112s. They arrived by freight (weighing a small ton). Never more excited. Left them boxed for a day or two. Then one late morning, I unpacked them. Set them up. Curiously my eastern exposure lit up the top of each F112 and my heart sank. Having ordered the Black High Gloss finish, the sun was just at the right angle to highlight spiderweb swirls on the surface of the tops of each F112, as if someone had taken an orbital buffer and inadvertently abused the finish.

Long story short, my dealer was agitated with me and even combative as if I was responsible. I'll avoid using his name but some of the CA members have consulted with him. He expected me at my cost to return the F112s to the manufacturer not to be replaced, rather to be examined to determine what action to take. I was beside myself by his attitude toward me.

Refusing to absorb such behavior, I called JL Audio the next morning and asked to speak directly to the President. He had not yet arrived and I was given over to his assistant. In less than a week she replaced both F112s with pristine, unblemished, brand new (not refurbished) F112s arranged for the simultaneous return via the same freight carrier who brought the replacements. I was not charged any cost. The returns arrived were examined and not a one objection. Perhaps the best service I had ever received, except for the President of Sony USA who answered his phone one afternoon while his secretary was out to lunch and turned everything upside down and arranged for me to receive an Anniversary BetaMax VCR (which allegedly no longer existed) to replace a lesser model with a long history of repair after repair.

In my experience, it pays to find the right person with the authority to do right by a good customer.

I realize I am OT, merely offering my experience in support of you as you deserve to be respected as a customer and to be happy with your purchases.

Imagine this will work out for the best.

Good fortune,

Richard

 

[Akapod]

But I'd go directly to REL, as they probably don't have all the facts. And because they are in a position to sell you a second R-218 at cost, to make up for your troubles.

 

[Akapod]

Deleted.

 

[Boy Howdy]

wgscott:

I have several Rel subwoofers and have found them to be very reliable over the years. I really like the Rels because I have several set ups in smaller rooms where I prefer stand-mounted speakers with a subwoofer and meshing the Rels with other speakers is very straightforward and produces very good results. I have had a couple of "near brushes" with Sumiko over the years and, in my experience their customer service is is very "lax" (to be overly polite). I'm sure if I spent $20K with them their customer service would be better - at least for a while. I avoid them at this point. I would reinforce the confrontation-less approach of going directly to Rel. When I have done this, a letter is the way to go - not optimum in terms of speed but reliable, I have been very well-treated. Good luck.

Mike

 

[wgscott]

Someone from Sumiko did get in touch with me and I definitely got the message that they want to do the right thing.

 

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I appreciate it.

 

[wgscott]

To follow up, I finally got it back early in May.

 

I've been even more cautious this time, only hooking it up to my Peachtree Nova via the speaker-level connection, and turn it off via the built-in power switch at the back whenever it is not in use. Thus I have completely avoided any potential problematic interaction with a class D amp.

 

This worked fine this morning, but now it looks like I am back to a variant of the original problem, and it blows the 6.3 Amp slow-blow fuse every time I try to turn it on.

 

I'm quite discouraged now, to say the least.

[Jud]

To follow up, I finally got it back early in May.

 

I've been even more cautious this time, only hooking it up to my Peachtree Nova via the speaker-level connection, and turn it off via the built-in power switch at the back whenever it is not in use. Thus I have completely avoided any potential problematic interaction with a class D amp.

 

This worked fine this morning, but now it looks like I am back to a variant of the original problem, and it blows the 6.3 Amp slow-blow fuse every time I try to turn it on.

 

I'm quite discouraged now, to say the least.

 

When something like this happens, it can be discouraging enough to foster inaction. But of course the thing to do is precisely the opposite, to act quickly and return it to get the purchase price back. Time to go in another direction, whatever that will be. Again, confrontation isn't necessary - treat them as if you know they are the sort of folks who of course will do the right thing. The fault is with the unit, certainly not with them. Regrettable, but you just can't stick with a piece that's let you down twice this way. (At least, all the foregoing is the mindset I think you ought to project.)

 

I'm just very sorry to hear of this happening to you. Feels like we all spend entirely too much time chasing after things that, or people who, don't do what they're supposed to.

[wgscott]

From what I have seen so far, they are those kind of folks. I think I probably got a lemon somehow, or at least there is a persistent problem with the electronics upstream from the board they replaced. I've had to go through this with $600K X-ray machines, so I know what it can be like...

 

I actually really like the thing when it is working.

[mwheelerk]

To follow up, I finally got it back early in May.

 

I've been even more cautious this time, only hooking it up to my Peachtree Nova via the speaker-level connection, and turn it off via the built-in power switch at the back whenever it is not in use. Thus I have completely avoided any potential problematic interaction with a class D amp.

 

This worked fine this morning, but now it looks like I am back to a variant of the original problem, and it blows the 6.3 Amp slow-blow fuse every time I try to turn it on.

 

I'm quite discouraged now, to say the least.

 

When you say only hook it up "via the speaker-level connection" does that mean you had both types of connection previously hooked up, the speaker level and the line level?

[wgscott]

Yeah, it is designed so that you can simultaneously use speaker-level and LFE for home theatre applications, but the "only" in the sentence you have quoted meant that I avoided hooking up to a Class D amp, but instead "only" to a class A/B amp (the Nova). Previous generations of Rel subs had some problems with balanced class D amp output. (My class D amp has unbalanced output, fwiw.)

[mwheelerk]

Yeah, it is designed so that you can simultaneously use speaker-level and LFE for home theatre applications, but the "only" in the sentence you have quoted meant that I avoided hooking up to a Class D amp, but instead "only" to a class A/B amp (the Nova). Previous generations of Rel subs had some problems with balanced class D amp output. (My class D amp has unbalanced output, fwiw.)

 

I have owned a few REL subs and really liked them. I became aware of the grounding issue relating to Class D amps. The notice about connecting the black lead from the Neutrik Speakon to chassis ground has been removed from the 'Serie' series like yours versus the previous 'Series' series (now those can be seriously confusing set of models). I did not know the Nova was A/B.

[wgscott]

I loved the thing when it worked. But I think they must not have done the repair right the first time, or I just got a dud. I emailed the distributor and the guy who sold it to me, who took care of it last time. I haven't heard anything yet... so I am starting to think about other options.

[tweaver7777]

For what it's worth, I've been have the same troubles. I paired a REL T3 sub (that I bought from best buy's Magnolia store) with a peachtree nova. Two months ago, the two year warranty ended. Last week, the subwoofer went kaput. Best Buy has been absolutely worthless with repair options--never buying from them again. I wish there were more quality dealers in my neck of the woods.

 

But yeah, what's going on with these REL subs?

[wgscott]

I thought the warranty was for three years:

 

Sumiko Audio : REL

 

Contact Sumiko. It took a bit of persistence, but they helped me out.

[mav52]

I had a r-218 it was ok, sold it and got a Rythmik D15SE I found the Rythmik to be more musical", also Funkywaves, SVS but it depends on where you live as shipping these beast overseas could be expensive.