Meitner Audio MA-1 DAC Review

uvrmd · September 22, 2011

If you think that that's scandalous, consider his assertion that a cheap plastic toslink from Monoprice is as good or better than name brand versions! My unit is on order and I'm going to connect it via a Cardas Clear USB cable. The only toslink output on my iMac is the headphone output, so I'm pretty sure it will be inferior, but I will buy a toslink interconnect and compare.

-Uday

Ghasley · September 22, 2011

Hey, cut Chris a break!

He was only stating what he heard regarding the Playback Designs unit at that time. While I believe the MPD-3 is a phenominal sounding DAC in my system, it is brand new and he probably hasn't heard it.

We can all admit that the USB implementation prior to the introduction of the external box was likely less than optimal on the MPS-5 SACD player/DAC. I chose the MPD-3 because it seemed to me to be a clean sheet, computer audio optimized DAC. The USB implementation is fantastic.

Other DACs I have owned, in order of most recent:

Berekley Alpha DAC

Audio Research DAC8

NAIM

Wadia 581i

Mcintosh MDA1000

CARY 306SACD

Benchmark

In my system, the Playback Designs MPD-3 is the best digital I have heard (analog like in its delivery) but I am also positive the Meitner is a fantastic DAC as well. Horses for courses as they say.

I will again reiterate that we are ALL very fortunate that even marginal products these days are terrific! Sound quality in the sub-$1,000 DAC arena rivals ANYTHING you could purchase 10 years ago.

Keep up the great work Chris!

dapost · September 23, 2011

Hi Tarik, all,

I have been listening to the Weiss DAC202 for the last year and I agree that its 2.12Vrms output setting sounds more punchy / dynamic but less natural. Hence, I use the 1.06Vrms setting.

Great review, by the way!

pawel8 · September 23, 2011

I agree with your evaluation of previous USB implementations.

Also we all should appreciate Chris for his work and this website.

For past 6 months I have been searching for perfect DAC and I was unsuccessful.

I have tried Debussy,DAC 8,simaudio dac100d,Primare I 22,Hegel H10 and H20 and Berkeley Alpha.

Only twice I was smiling to MacMini ripped CDs:Alpha DAC and Audio Research DAC 8.

I returned both to the dealer for 2 reasons:

Berkeley is coming with series II and Audio Research with DSPre(preamp with built in DAC 8.

What would be your ranking in order of best sounding DAC?

Currently I am using Mcintosh C50(no high resolution)

Priaptor · September 23, 2011

I have heard and owned a lot of equipment. I thought the DAC 8 was very good, started realizing the synergy with the system compared to others. Their combo Pre/DAC is interesting and appears to be price competitive.

As a standalone, the DAC 8 is 5K + price of preamp. So I think evaluating the DAC 8 as a standalone needs to be put in this price context. I use a REF 5 and DAC 8, which together is more than most of the "top tier" price wise, if you are going to use the DAC without a preamp. Their new unit will obviously be much cheaper.

The point I make and I can't stress enough is how much synergy makes a difference. By no means do I think I have the "best" system but have come to appreciate that when buying from a company like Audio Research there is a synergy among their components much greater than the sum of their parts. I have recently taken delivery of their new REF 250 monoblock amps (to replace my very good McIntosh MC2301 monoblocks and the 250s now replace their prior REF 210) and can say, IMHO, I have yet to hear any system anywhere matching what I am now achieving through my Nola Baby Grands.

Lastly, while waiting for REF 250s, I did send back the DAC 8 in order for AR to rebuild the USB circuit (replace the power board and USB board and connectors) as I was having "intermittent" issues through the USB connector. They now solder all components and it is hard for me to tell if sonically there is a difference because the addition of the REF 250 happened at the same time. All I can say is that the synergy of DAC 8, REF 5 and REF 250 is like nothing I have ever heard, including the some very fine gear such as DCS.

Once upon a time I was an audio dealer, sold and had access to a ton of equipment and must admit I was NOT an Audio Research fan. Their new gear is truly unique and while the benefits of each component can and does stand on its own merit, their synergy when combined as a "system" is truly unique.

Happy hunting.

barrows · September 23, 2011

I have to applaud Chris for this review, and his honest and straightforward approach of stating his preferences amongst the DACs mentioned.

Funny, that those who seem to take issue with Chris' comments re the Playback Designs DACs have not even heard the Meitner! You guys might actually want to listen to the DAC under review before questioning Chris' opinion. Additionally, remember, that this is only one person's opinion, and you might not agree-Chris did not say the Playback Designs sounded "bad", just that he feels the Meitner is better.

Interestingly, many here seem to criticize the reviews of the mainstream publications in the high end, specifically for not comparing components against each other-kudos to Chris for doing so.

On toslink: if the Meitner does incorporate a truly asynchronous buffer for de-jittering SPDIF inputs, providing complete re-clocking with a very accurate clock, the optical connection should indeed be able to perform at a very high level. A true asynchronous buffer is a very unusual feature, and is expensive and difficult to implement.

USB isolation: I am beginning to wonder how advantageous this can be. After investigating the options what I have found is that USB 2 HS cannot be isolated with presently available affordable technology, as the isolators do not have enough bandwidth. The common approach is then to provide isolation at the I2S output of the USB receiver: unfortunately, the devies used to provide this isolation add jitter (the best isolators appear to add ~100 pS jitter or so). Right now, I am using a non-isolated asynchronous USB-I2S receiver in my DAC. With a laptop this approach is providing excellent performance, better than I had with the Wavelink-SPDIF (powered by an external supply) which is isolated by a transformer on the SPDIF output. It may be, that with proper attention to playback details, a non-isolated USB interface can actually outperform an isolated one. Note that my interfcae runs on an internal, isolated, power supply, not the USB bus power.

4est · September 23, 2011

"Funny, that those who seem to take issue with Chris' comments re the Playback Designs DACs have not even heard the Meitner! You guys might actually want to listen to the DAC under review before questioning Chris' opinion. Additionally, remember, that this is only one person's opinion, and you might not agree-Chris did not say the Playback Designs sounded "bad", just that he feels the Meitner is better."

I applaud Chris' stating his preferences clearly. I do not always agree with him, but I find comfort in his not hiding those preferences.

gcorley · September 23, 2011

I can actually count on one hand the number of audio reviewers who state opinions clearly enough to be of any practical use and who actually compare competing products using controversial and dangerous language like "better"!

We obviously don't all have to agree with Chris' opinion, but I sure appreciate his directness.

Bravo and keep up the good work!

Priaptor · September 23, 2011

Compared to most other reviewers, I find Chris' reviews some of the most informative. Regardless of whether I am buying based on his recommendations, when I have been in the market for a change, I can always count on his unbiased reviews for guidance.

Several months ago, in my quest to review DACs, I found Chris's comments on the Debussy and Meitner most helpful. The only issue I found, as I have stated in my prior posts, was system dependency, something I think and not a criticism of Chris or his reviews, we all must take into account when determining what is "best" for respective purposes.

tmokbel · September 23, 2011

Hi dapost,

It's nice to see I'm not alone in my observations and from the sounds of it, you've found a good match you like with the Weiss DAC202, it's outputs and the rest of your system.

I agree, great review from Chris on the Meitner and his reply to my question was more or less right in that how dac's sound and the synergy found is system dependent. My power amps input sensitivity is 0.8v/30db and only requires around 1Vrms from a source to make it come alive. Many power amps have input sensitivities requiring higher voltage than that to make them sing so the standard 2Vrms or more would be a better match.

AudioCynic · September 23, 2011

The usual response to the mention of toslink to audiophiles is at best derision. Yet Meitner says its their BEST performing interface. How can that be?

budt · September 24, 2011

Hi Chris

I have been hanging around here for about a year now and finally decided to register..Great review by the way !!! As far as the PD owner crying foul, well I think we all have a good idea who that is.

I was wondering if you have had a chance to hear the new Invicta dac? ANy comments good or bad would be appreciated..

Erwin S · September 24, 2011

Maybe this review on 6 moons helps also.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/resonessence/1.html

catastrofe · October 14, 2011

especially the comment about the bass.

I've had the following DACs in my system for demo over the past 4 months: Meitner MA-1, Playback Designs MPS-5 (not a true DAC, but DAC capability nonetheless), Weiss DAC202, and MSB Platinum DAC IV. My reference DAC at the time was a PS Audio Perfectwave.

Each of these units provides different levels of functionality, and they have their own tonal signature.

The Meitner has excellent balance as Chris mentioned. I immediately noticed the bass performance. . .it was not subtle. I referenced this in a previous post about my MA-1 experience. The general improvement over the PWD was very clear. Unfortunately, the Meitner lacks some "creature comforts" that I wanted.

The Weiss was an all-around performer, and connection via Firewire sounded great. It was a little "lighter" sounding (going from memory as I didn't have the MA-1 on hand) than the Meitner, but slightly more coherent and solid than the PWD. Not significant, but definitely noticeable.

The MPS-5 sounded terrible in my system, connected via USB. To be fair, the unit was limited to 16/48 using this type of connection. I removed it from my system after about 30 minutes. . .it sounded lean and recessed. Unlistenable to my ears.

The Platinum DAC IV was the best performer in my system. It had the features I was looking for and provides for future upgrades. The sound is balanced and detailed, with nothing lacking or exaggerated. I ended up purchasing the Signature version of this unit.

If I were to rank these DACs in descending order it would be:

MSB Platinum DAC IV

Meitner MA-1

Weiss DAC202

PS Audio PWD

Playback Designs MPS-5

The ususal caveat applies. . .this was in my system with my ears. YMMV.

Bob

uvrmd · October 15, 2011

Just received my MA-1* via FedEx today. I'll let it burn in for a few days, then will let you all know how it sounds in my system:

Jeff Rowland Concentra (series 1)

Wilson Audio Sophia Loudspeakers (series 1)

Cardas Neutral Reference interconnects and speaker cables

Cardas Clear USB cable

Cardas Twinlink and Cardas Cross power cords

*replaces a Logitech Transporter with Halide Design S/PDIF bridge, which will remain in the system for internet radio.

Update:

With great anticipation, I hooked up the MA-1 and loaded an album into Amarra 2.3 running on my iMac. Nothing! Hmmm. I checked AudioMidi and lo and behold, it was not recognizing the DAC. I tried several times and managed to acquire the DAC a few times, but the sound was overlaid with pops and crackles, as if I was listening to a dirty LP. I dashed off an email to Meitner and got an immediate reply. Assuming something was wrong with the cable, I was asked to replace the Cardas Clear USB cable with a generic USB cable, which I pilfered from my printer. Immediately the DAC was recognized. I then loaded in the 24/96 version from HDtracks of Claudio Abbado conducting Beethoven's 9th. I've had this recording on CD since its release in 2000 and in 24/96 since its release on HDtracks and I have always felt that the sound quality was not up to the performance. No longer. Wow, what a difference. I was up way past midnight listening to one album after another, in varying resolutions from 16/44.1 all the way up to 24/192, and every recording was like a new revelation. All this, using a cheap USB cable and it's not even burned in yet...

SoundQcar · October 21, 2011

I just ordered an MA-1 today. Should have it Wed-Thurs next week. By far the most I've ever spent on hardware I didn't audition first.

Looking forward to it.

catastrofe · October 21, 2011

I don't think you'll be disappointed. . .;-)

SoundQcar · October 21, 2011

I don't think so either.

Beautiful sounding DAC you have. Just a bit out of my budget. Would love to have it.

hamsi · October 22, 2011

The ARC DAC8 is in yet another category of sound. It sounds really different from the Alpha/DAC202 and the MA-1/Debussy DACs. If you've listened to ARC gear in the past and like what you've heard you should absolutely love the DAC8.

----

Dear Chris,

I'm planning to buy one of the DAC's above to use with CAPS.

But I have no chance to listen any of them before ordering, because distributors here doesn't have them in stock, just accepting pre-orders.

So would you please explain what you mean they sound differently?

What I guess is:

DAC8: more spacious, less pinpoit imaging, more micro details, smooth treble, big images (good for acoustic music)

Alpha/DAC202 and the MA-1/Debussy DACs: more dynamics, more punchy, more palpable images (good for electronic music)

SoundQcar · October 22, 2011

Just a few things kept me from purchasing the DAC8. It really was the unit I was targeting, but its slight lack of focus and more importantly, larger-than-life center image portrayals shot it down for me - and I was sad about this - as I loved everything else about it.

I listen to a lot of jazz vocals, and as a result ultimately couldn't live with the 3ft wide mouth of the vocalist. Believe me, it's about the only thing I found to dislike about it.

In the end, I stretched my budget a couple of grand and went all in for the Meitner. We will see....

Priaptor · October 22, 2011

and would have LOVED to try the Meitner, which unfortunately I couldn't and doesn't seem like I will anytime in the near future as no one sells them in my region.

Here has been my experience with the DAC 8. For full disclosure a long time ago I distributed Meitner's awesome tiny preamp/amp combination in a gorgeous Rosewood exterior that was to die for especially driving Celestion SL600s. He makes some of the best electronics I have ever owned and/or sold. Story for a different time.

My path to the DAC 8 occurred via a somewhat bizarre set of circumstances. I tried it, couldn't stand it and after the second trial it turned out to be defective rather than "bad". I had already made a decision long before to buy their REF 5 to go with my PS Audio and loved it, better than the PS Audio alone. I was truly impressed more with the REF 5 than the PS Audio DAC. However, I was using McIntosh MC2301s monoblocks, as at the time, I thought they were better than the then current AR REF 210s, which I had auditioned first. I have to say, the image of the DAC 8 was larger than life and was indeed a slight shortcoming (something I disliked about my prior Wilson X1s), but I still found it more dynamically realistic and holographic than either the PS or Debussy (which I tried but not their new 192 capable one).

Then came the REF 250 monoblocks, replacing my McIntosh. What a difference. The image is pinpoint accurate, the sense of air, like nothing I have ever experienced and macro and micro dynamics incredible. I have since had to adjust my speakers (Nola Baby Grands) bringing them out about 6 inches further into the room and must say, that I have never experienced better imaging.

The point I am making is that(and this is coming from someone who was never a HUGE AR fan) AR, more than most, really does build integrated systems. That doesn't mean that each piece won't work great on its own, just that, as I have said before, the net sum of their total sonic picture is much greater than each individual piece alone; just my opinion. On the downside, I hate being tied to one manufacturer, although, at this time, I have no regrets.

Having said the above, I would still love to hear your experience and would likewise love to try the Meitner. From its description, it is my cup of tea. More than the Debussy which I did try and found very good (just not my cup of tea) just not as good as the DAC 8 to my taste.

Enjoy and good luck.

hamsi · October 22, 2011

surely I don't like to feel scary as if vocalist will swallow me; but on the other hand it would be so nice to feel the full length of the piano 6" or whatever big it is...

may be it's possible to solve this problem with Weiss INT202 or 203 at the times we don't need big images.

I wish the other DAC's won't present images smaller (i.e. 9/10) than real life.

Are the others lack of something that DAC8 have?

Priaptor · October 22, 2011

me nothing is more important than a "perfect image". I have been working on my system for close to a year now and believe, after getting these new REF250s, the missing link, I have achieved what I am looking for. My taste, let me say that, but #1 importance to me is an accurate image.

There is NO distortion (in my system) of image at all, unless the recording is distorted.

My prior reference systems in years past consisted of Spectral, still my favorite transistor gear, Mark Levinson in their good old days (although I never like their stuff compared to the "cheaper Spectral gear", Wadia, Wilson (first WATT/Puppy, then added WOW, then replaced for X1's). I have not heard Wilson's in a while, but when I had the X1s initially with Spectral and then with Levinson, that produced a distorted image that most people I played the system for loved; they loved hearing giant versions of Jennifer Warnes, etc. I hated it and hence one of the reasons I got out of high end audio 9 years ago; I made the fatal mistake of taking good and trying to make it better. The WATT/Puppies, IMHO, were a better speaker, but also too analytical (for my taste) and a little bright for my liking, but had incredible transparency and almost perfect imaging.

I guess what I am saying, is that synergy makes the system, no one component. For me the Debussy was a little too bright and analytical and the choice was clear. I didn't take me long to make my decision. In fact, without disclosing the dealer, who lent me both, after I returned the Debussy, he concurred and in his reference room where he uses the same speakers I have, uses the DAC 8 and not the Debussy.

The last thing I will say about Audio Research is that I have never dealt with a friendlier company, more willing to help and had an impressive turnaround in fixing my "broken" DAC 8.

hamsi · October 22, 2011

Dear Priaptor,

since imaging is important for me too, WATT Puppies was in my shortlist when I was choosing the speakers. but at the end I prefered the Harbeth. It seems ARC is probably better for you, and the opposing camp for me.

Priaptor · October 22, 2011

compared to the Wilson as I have never listened to them?

One of the reasons I stayed away from the Wilsons when I got back into this crazy hobby of ours is that Wilsons, while obviously excellent, to me at least, were somewhat fatiguing with extending listening.

I found NOLA to be a much more relaxed and enjoyable and open speaker that I can listen to for hours on end.

Meitner Audio MA-1 DAC Review

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