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    The Computer Audiophile

    By The Computer Audiophile •

    EMM Labs DAC2X Review

    thumb.pngGerman novelist Berthold Auerbach once said, "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." That quote rings true for many audiophiles as they sit down for an evening listening session after a tough week. That quote is also apropos for millions of iPod users riding noisy trains home from work each day. The power of music reproduced through the best and worst audio systems can't be denied. Our favorite songs are just as powerful through an AM radio, iPod, or bank breaking high end system. Or are they? The short answer is no. Our favorites songs are more powerful and bring out more emotion when we feel closer to the music or artists creating the music. I found this out the easy way. Over the last couple months I've had the pleasure of using the new EMM Labs DAC2X digital to analog converter. Listening to my favorite music through this DAC was unlike anything I've heard in my listening room. The same tunes I've played hundreds times were somehow different. The songs were much more emotionally powerful as I heard artists exhale after each verse and felt the raw energy of a symphony orchestra like never before through my system. The illusion of sitting in the Kansas City Symphony Orchestra's pit or sitting on stage while Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds play Christmas Song was more realistic than I've ever experienced from my listening chair. The EMM Labs DAC2X has the ability to transport me from my home in Minnesota to any music venue in the world better than any DAC I've heard to date in my system. This DAC not only earned a spot on the C.A.S.H. List but is the front runner for CA Product of the Year 2012. It's unequivocally the best DAC I've heard in my system.[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]

     

     

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    Close But Not Really

     

     

    logo.jpgThe EMM Labs DAC2X physically looks like the Meitner Audio MA-1 (Review ex.png) both inside and out. In fact both DACs share some features such as the XMOS USB receiving chip and support of PCM and DSD playback over USB. Both DACs even have the same screen printing on the circuit boards. This really threw me for a loop when I opened the DAC2X for internal photography. I saw what looked to me, and every other armchair audio engineer, like a sheep in wolf's clothing or an MA-1 in a DAC2X chassis. A call to EMM Labs removed my suspicion of a PCB board error or even worse an attempt to pull a Lexicon move ex.png on consumers and sell the same hardware in a more expensive chassis. Greg at EMM Labs explained the major differences between the two units. A major difference is the use of many proprietary and specially made components just like the flagship disc spinner XDS1. These components are hand selected and matched for optimum performance. In addition the DAC2X contains standard EMM Labs technologies such as MFAST, MDAT and hand built 5.6 Mhz proprietary discrete dual differential D-to-A converters.

     

    P1010520.pngWhat separates the DAC2X from the MA-1 and many other DACs is EMM’s proprietary ceramic PCB which is difficult to manufacture and to populate thus greatly increases the overall costs. These multi-layer ceramic circuit boards appear like any old PCB from the top but when viewed from the edge it's easier to notice the differences. The ceramic PCBs in the DAC2X spread heat better than traditional boards and quickly bring the temperature to a uniform level after the unit is powered. The red colored ceramic analog board contains the DAC chips and clocking circuitry under metal covers. These grounded covers do more than simply look nice. For example, the clock cover protects the sensitive analog circuits on the board from the digital clock circuitry and protect the clock form the rest of the DAC.

     

    P1010525.pngThe DAC2X also has a higher quality power supply than the MA-1. The X Power System v3.1 in the "2X" has better filtering and better isolation. Upon close visual and physical inspection the DAC2X's 26.5 lbs. all machined aluminum chassis, and even remote control, is much nicer than the MA-1. Rapping the top of the DAC2X with a pen or small nondestructive tool reveals a pretty dead chassis. Underneath the top cover of the DAC2X is what EMM Labs calls its Charge Management Technology. This plate full of copper circles stabilizes the electric field and further dampens the chassis against resonance. EMM Labs admits the charge management plate is controversial but insists its own listening tests, and Ed Meitner's decades of design experience, suggest the plate contributes to the sound quality of the DAC.

     

    P1010522.pngThe DAC2X has two USB inputs. One is for software and firmware updates. EMM Labs is capable of releasing new features (hint, hint) for the DAC2X that are installable via this USB port. The other USB port is high speed class 2 audio compliant. EMM Labs wisely selected the XMOS USB receiving chip that works without software / driver installation on both Linux and Mac OS X platforms. Connecting the DAC to a Windows computer requires the somewhat standard Thesycon driver that in my experience works very well. This high speed USB input accepts PCM audio up through 24 bit / 192 kHz and pure DSD audio at 1 bit / 2.8224 MHz using the newly created DoP v1.0 standard. The DAC2X's USB high speed USB input is not galvanically isolated. This isolation is not mandatory to achieve great sound but it can be beneficial in many situations. Users requiring isolation can use products like the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB that converts USB to AES or S/PDIF while providing excellent isolation from noisy computers and music servers.

     

    Note1: Shortly after reviewing the SOtM sMS-1000 music server (Link ex.png) *my unit was updated to support pure DSD over USB playback using DoP v1.0. I tested this with the DAC2X. Playback was flawless without any special drivers to install for the DAC.

    Note2: Current owners of the DAC2 can upgrade their existing units to the DAC2X at an additional cost.

     

     

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    Where No DAC Has Gone Before

     

     

    Readers of Computer Audiophile know that I don't wax on too much about sound quality and subjective listening impressions. I give my opinion and share a few listening experiences then wrap it up. Like it or not that's just my style. This review is a bit different. The EMM Labs DAC2X left such an impression on me I want to share much of what I heard during the review period. The DAC2X was like an addictive drug in my system. I always wanted more and thought about the music I could be listening to while I was busy doing other things. This DAC brought me so close to the music and evoked such emotion when the music called for it that I seriously wanted to delay writing this review indefinitely. That's no joke. The following subjective listening impressions sound a bit like I was listening to the equipment or a HiFi demonstration and looking for details rather than enjoying the music. Nothing is further from the truth. My impressions below detail why the DAC2X is so enjoyable, so emotional, and brought me closer to the music and further from reality than every before in my listening room.

     

     

    Artist A.A. Bondy's track World Without End features him on an acoustic guitar and vocals. With the lights in my room out, the track felt personal. I felt like I was back at a party in college where there was always one or two people with a guitar sitting in the corner picking and singing. Bondy's vocals came through so pure through the DAC2X. Playing Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba's Meet Me In London at 24 bit / 192 kHz really let the DAC2X shine. Sabina's vocal sounded silky smooth while Antonio's guitar was appropriately sharp. This was most apparent on the track Take Five. Sabina's smooth vocal eased from the left channel while the prickly rhythm guitar emanated from the right channel. This rhythm guitar sounded so fabulous I could hear the wood body vibrate beautifully. When the lead guitar entered the illusory sonic picture it was dead center and sounded stunning. Every pluck of a guitar string was distinct with transient starts and stops that didn't memorialize the sonic event.

     

     

    The EMM Labs DAC2X reproduced male vocals and acoustic guitar better than any DAC in recent memory in my system or otherwise. Ben Harper's Welcome to the Cruel World isn't the best example of a rangy vocalist but through the DAC2X I heard tiny changes in Ben's voice from syllable to syllable. Even better than the vocal was the decay of the acoustic guitar in the background while Ben ominously sings, "Welcome to the cruel world, hope you find your way." This isn't the most "audiophile" song but it's an emotional gem when played through such a transparent system. Continuing the male vocal trend I opted for pure DSD playback of Keith Greeninger and Dayan Kai's Looking for a Home from the first Blue Coast Collection. The details that could be heard on Keith's words were wonderful. After the last word of each verse I could hear what I would call a breath trail. Like Keith was pouring out his emotions and everything he had when singing the track. The illusion of Keith and Dayan sitting on stools in front of me performing this track made me giggle. Seriously. Another pure DSD release I used was Keb' Mo's self titled album. The track Every Morning was very realistic sounding with a touch of raspiness in the vocal. Comparing this to the PCM 16 bit / 44.1 version I immediately heard a very compressed vocal via PCM playback. The center image was very tight but the vocal sounded weird compared to the DSD version. I'm not sure there is a "right" version but I've never heard this track sound better than playing the pure DSD version through the DAC2X.

     

     

    One of my all time favorite albums is Chet Baker's Chet. The track Alone Together can be good on any system but stunning through the best components. There's no doubt I've never heard this track sound this good. As Chet nears the end of some notes one can hear excellent detail in the small changes of the notes. The changes are so delicate but so clear through the DAC2X. Depending on Chet's physical and mental state at the time of recording he may have ran out of breath toward the end of the notes. Throughout the track one can hear excellent air around the cymbal in the right channel. In addition to this, as each note of Chet's trumpet fades a terrific decay can be heard from the left to right channel as it crosses from microphone to microphone during the recording. Similar to the album Chet is John Coltrane's Standard Coltrane. Don't Take Your Love From Me is a nearly ten minute lush track that, to paraphrase Berthold Auerbach's aforementioned quote, truly washes away the dust of each day. The sound quality of this track with its horn on the left and bass & drums on the left was really great. Each of Paul Chamber's bass notes was terrifically clear as John wailed away on the smooth tenor sax though the opposing channel. Similarly stunning was Joe Morello's drum solo about 2:30 into Dave Brubeck's Take Five. Through the DAC2X the drums sounded so real from the left channel with the decay drifting to the right channel. Meanwhile Eugene Wright's impressive bass plucking can be heard in the center of the sonic image. The DAC2X reproduces the bass notes without bloat or added unnatural vividness.

     

     

    The DAC2X's ability to transport a listener to a concert venue is terrific. Listening to Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds play Christmas Song live from Luther College gave me a sense of being at the live show. The illusion was really good for a pop record. A sense of ambiance and spaciousness at the venue could be felt during as people coughed during the track. The DAC2X brought out the most in this recording. Looking at it like the "2X" brought out more flaws only decreases one's enjoyment of the listening experience. I elected to sit back and enjoy this performance. To misquote English poet Robert Graves. "A remarkable thing about Shakespeare Diana Krall is that she is really very good in spite of all the people who say she is very good." The sense of being at the actual venue was even better on Diana Krall's Live in Paris album. The emotion in her voice during A Case of You was very clear. I could sense the pride she has for her home country of Canada when she sang, "On the back of a cartoon coaster, In the blue TV screen light. I drew a map of Canada, Ohhhhhh Canada." The detailed, delicate, yet powerful sound quality brought this track to the next sonic and emotional level. Another female vocal I enjoy very much is Christina Aguilera's Save Me From Myself off her double album Back to Basics. XTina's very close mic'd vocal sounded incredible. I noticed for the first time how much of a role the violin plays throughout this track. Now I hear the violin throughout the entire track on all DACs but it was the DAC2X that enabled me to notice this seemingly obvious detail.

     

     

    Moving to R&B and Hip-Hop I listened to the twelve minute version of Isaac Hayes' Walk On By at 24 bit / 96 kHz. Standing out immediately in this track was the electric guitar. Each note was delineated from the next in a crisp fashion. It was also impossible not to be affected by Isaac's emotional and soulful vocal. Most listeners would never guess Walk On By is a Burt Bacharach song as Isaac sings it with convincing soul. One of my favorite Hip-Hop albums is the new Kanye West / Jay-Z album Watch The Throne. The best track on the album is Ni**as In Paris. I've heard this track sound ear splitting on some systems with sloppy bass and eardrum piercing highs. I'm not sure if there's a "real" instrument played on the entire track, but I really don't care. Good music is good music. Through the DAC2X the massive bass on the track was extremely controlled and as powerful as I've heard. Vocals remained clear even with massive sound effects bouncing around in the background.

     

     

    Please pass the Grey Poupon and queue the classical music. Only kidding but the juxtaposition between the previous and next tracks couldn't be better. Two classical albums I like more every time I hear are the 24 bit / 176.4 kHz HRx versions of Crown Imperial and Britten's Orchestra from Reference recordings. Crown Imperial's Niagara Falls was a stunning listen through the EMM Labs DAC2X. Each time a percussionist struck a bell I felt like a metallurgist listening for identifiable characteristics of the bells' composition. The bells were so crystal clear I could visualize them in a space way beyond my speakers. When I need to hear stunning dynamics and transients I always turn to Passacaglia from the "Britten" release. Through the DAC2X I heard amazing clarity and detail during the most complex parts of the track.

     

     

    Throughout the entire review period nothing made a bigger or more memorable impression on me than listening to Ottmar Liebert's One Guitar at 24 bit / 96 kHz. I've never heard a better reproduction of this album than through the EMM Labs DAC2X. Period. The air around the entire recording space is stupendous. I'm willing to bet some CA readers can identify what material this floor is made of and how large the room is after listening to this album through a great system and the DAC2X. The decay of each guitar note is unsurpassed by neither the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC with Alpha USB nor the dCS Debussy. The difference in decay reproduction was easily and immediately identifiable when comparing all three DACs. Another major difference between the Alpha/Alpha combo and the DAC2X is reproduction of the upper midrange and higher frequencies. The Alpha/Alpha combo can sound a skosh thin up top compared to an appropriately fuller sounding DAC2X. Comparing the Debussy to the DAC2X the first and largest sonic difference I heard was the in the lower midrange and bass frequencies about 600 Hz and below. The Debussy appeared to emphasize the lower frequencies or even play guitar and bass notes lower than I thought sounded correct. Granted I was not present at any recordings and don't know what's more accurate. On the other hand the EMM Labs DAC2X reproduced this lower midrange and bass extremely well. I consider the DAC2X the most "up-the-middle" DAC I've heard in my system. It isn't bass heavy or thin on top or anything other than neutral. I've previously discussed the sounds of the Alpha DAC and Weiss DACs as being on one side and the dCS DACs as being on another side. Both have different sounds that attract most users to one or the other. The EMM Labs DAC2X is a DAC that's smack in the middle of these two groups. The "2X" doesn't borrow the best of each DAC rather it's a different animal that beats to it's own drum.

     

     

    Conclusion

     

     

    cash-logo-black-thumb.jpgThe EMM Labs DAC2X is the most detailed, neutral, and transparent DAC I've heard in my system. A better power supply, ceramic circuit boards, and well damped chassis are the foundation that elevates the DAC2X well beyond the capabilities of the Meitner Audio MA-1 and many of its competitors. At $15,500 the DAC2X should perform better and it clearly does in all areas. No DAC has brought out so much emotion or brought me closer to my favorite music that the DAC2X. This wonderful hobby is first and foremost about music and its reproduction. Well engineered components that reproduce our favorite music are only tools. These tools are built to be invisible or disappear as soon as the play button is clicked. The DAC2X produces the best musical illusion and performs a better disappearing act than all other DACs I've heard in my listening room and many other rooms. To remove any doubt I will state with emphasis, the EMM Labs DAC2X is unequivocally the best DAC I've heard in my system.

     

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    Product Information:

     

    • Product - EMM Labs DAC2X digital to analog converter
    • Price - $15,500
    • EMM Labs - Link ex.png
    • Product Brochure - Link (1.2MB PDF) ex.png

     

     

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    stumil
    stumil,

     

    I recently set up my EMM DAC2X on Sunday and have only listened to it sparingly at this point, as I really don't like to judge equipment until I feel there has been that change in character that almost always accompanies new products. I will also be reporting my findings in the next couple of weeks. My comparison will be to a previously owned PS Audio MKI, ARC DAC 8 which the EMM is replacing as well as a comparison to an older dCS Debussy, the latter while a wonderful piece, just wasn't my cup of tea. I am not criticizing the dCS, but it's characteristics were just my taste.

     

     

    My system is all ARC gear, including a REF5SE preamp, REF 250 monoblocks driving Nola Baby Grands II. My initial impressions of the DAC2X is very positive but not overwhelming at this time, compared to my outgoing DAC 8. This is not a slight on the EMM as I know it has not yet reached its full character at this point and is improving everyday. Last night I believe was a breakthrough in the burn in process where my expectations are starting to close in on reality, but there is still a gap. (as an economic Noble Prize winner who developed his groundbreaking psycho-econometric model concluded, Economic Happiness = Reality/Expectations; which can really be applied to just about all things). My "happiness" with increasing daily BUT, my expectations for this product are very high.

     

    So I will give a follow up when I believe the system is ready. Right now it has about 120 hours on it and is really starting to sweeten up. Since I the DAC8 is outgoing, I can say, I am amazed this incredible dac didn't get better accolades. I will miss some of its unique characteristics, but can already, at this short period of time with the EMM, see it will be surpassed in many areas by the DAC2X

     

    One nice thing is that Chris uses my favorite transistor gear, namely Spectral and I use my favorite tube gear namely ARC, so I think together our opinions will give a nice spectrum to those considering the unit.

     

    Will report back later.

     

     

    Priaptor,

     

    Thanks for your post. We have similar systems (although you are flying at loftier levels) in that I have the ARC Ref3, ARC Ref110, and Vandersteen 5a combo. With your similar gear, and the fact that you are an "old hand" on this forum, your observations are going to carry much weight with me. I am really looking forward to seeing how your EMM improves over the next 100-200 hours. Keep me informed!

     

    I just had the pleasure of auditioning the Aesthetix Romulus vs. Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.0/Alpha USB for a week here in my system. Both are excellent but have distinct strengths and (minor) weaknesses. They both sound so good, but I still want more. Just not sure if I want to dump $10k-$15k more into digital.

     

    Regards - Stuart

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    Priaptor
    Priaptor,

     

    Thanks for your post. We have similar systems (although you are flying at loftier levels) in that I have the ARC Ref3, ARC Ref110, and Vandersteen 5a combo. With your similar gear, and the fact that you are an "old hand" on this forum, your observations are going to carry much weight with me. I am really looking forward to seeing how your EMM improves over the next 100-200 hours. Keep me informed!

     

    I just had the pleasure of auditioning the Aesthetix Romulus vs. Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.0/Alpha USB for a week here in my system. Both are excellent but have distinct strengths and (minor) weaknesses. They both sound so good, but I still want more. Just not sure if I want to dump $10k-$15k more into digital.

     

    Regards - Stuart

     

    I understand. One can go broke with this hobby. I will definitely keep this site updated when I feel the unit is fully broken in.

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    ted_b

    Priaptor,

    1) i think the Meitner really blossoms into its full potential at about 300 hours, although Gregory (Meitner) will tell you it doesn't take that long. He's been right about so many things that maybe mine is some sort of expectation bias, since most of my best stuff takes that long. :)

     

    2) I have so much invested in DSD (600+ SACDs ripped, 2 DSD dacs, etc) that hearing about DSD from me might seem biased; it is, but only because it hooked me. :) I find it to be soo much more effortless than even 24/176 PCM (24/192 native PCM recordings are damn good too, but few and far between), but it might be a very individual thing. And I am speaking about that large-but-subsetted-collection of DSD that is either pure DSD recordings or analog-to-DSD. Any PCM sourced converted material sounds fine, but I'd much rather have the PCM source. However, in the case of many of these PCM-based SACD's the hirez PCM source is not available, so it's as good as we can get (EMI's hdtracks releases and BIS's own eclassical downloads of the original PCM notwithstanding). For me the sound of piano is sublime in native DSD.

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    edorr

    Let me jump in with a question if I may. am considering the purchase of a DCA2X. I m currently using the PS audio PWD MKII. I am using the DAC in the following chain: CAPS 2.0 -> Offramp 5 -> trinnov ST2 processor -> DAC -> Class A Monoblocks - Evolution Acoustics MM3.

     

    I am currently using the digital volume control in the Trinnov. I was actually in the market for a DAC with a build in analog volume control (have my eyes on the new MSB analog DAC), but I am very seriously considering a DAC2X as an alternative. In this scenario, I would either have to continue to (1) use the Trinnov digital volume control (64 floating point processor based DSP), or (2) build a dedicated volume control using passive transformer based modules. Buying a high grade switching preamp is not an option.

     

    Any thoughts on the merits of of (1) versus (2). Would the DAC2X be able to drive my 200watt class A monoblocks? Input impedance is 100Kohm. Would the digital volume control degrade the performance of the DAC2X? I need up to 50db attenuation. I am close to pulling the trigger on the DAC2X, but a little hesitant because of these volume control issue.

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    Priaptor
    Let me jump in with a question if I may. am considering the purchase of a DCA2X. I m currently using the PS audio PWD MKII. I am using the DAC in the following chain: CAPS 2.0 -> Offramp 5 -> trinnov ST2 processor -> DAC -> Class A Monoblocks - Evolution Acoustics MM3.

     

    I am currently using the digital volume control in the Trinnov. I was actually in the market for a DAC with a build in analog volume control (have my eyes on the new MSB analog DAC), but I am very seriously considering a DAC2X as an alternative. In this scenario, I would either have to continue to (1) use the Trinnov digital volume control (64 floating point processor based DSP), or (2) build a dedicated volume control using passive transformer based modules. Buying a high grade switching preamp is not an option.

     

    Any thoughts on the merits of of (1) versus (2). Would the DAC2X be able to drive my 200watt class A monoblocks? Input impedance is 100Kohm. Would the digital volume control degrade the performance of the DAC2X? I need up to 50db attenuation. I am close to pulling the trigger on the DAC2X, but a little hesitant because of these volume control issue.

     

     

    edorr,

     

    I have been waiting to ensure that my unit is properly broken in, which I believe it now is, as well as ensuring my system is properly set up, which it now is, as well as giving the DAC2X extended listening sessions, which I now have before I gave my somewhat lengthy opinion (subjective) with personal caveats about this unit. It is a very positive experience which I will post, however, you will need a preamp. Needless to say, I am enjoying my music like I have before. The unit is fabulous.

     

    I had a PS Audio, ARC DAC8 have tried many other units in my system including a DCS Debussy among others.

     

    Once again, just my opinion, but I believe that JRiver, with CAPS 2, set to WASAPI-Event mode is the way to go. I used my Mac players with the unit and while I do not want to insult anybody or take anyone's wrath once again for my subjective analysis, I think JRiver set to WASAPI-Event blows away the Mac alternatives-in my opinion, not a close call.

     

    I will post more on this unit later. My bit of advice after having heard over 10 DACs in my system-get it if you can afford it.

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    edorr

    Thanks for the input. I can just about swing the DAC2X if I do NOT need an expensive switching preamp. I could build 2 channel passive transformer based volume control for around 2K though. Why do you think the DAC2X would not work without a preamp (i.e. using digital volume control downstream). Do you think the passive transformer base volume control would work? Are you using CAPS with USB into the DAC2X, are do you use a USB converter?

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    Priaptor
    Priaptor, like you I use the DAC2X with ARC Reference gear and I have owned pretty much every emm player since they entered the audiophile market. In my experience, you will start being able to fully appreciate the DAC2X at around 200 hours, but full break-in will take about 400-500 hours. Also, if you are using it with ARC gear, you should IMHO at least try to hear it from its balanced outputs before committing to single-ended (I believe from your posts in another thread that you might now be using single-ended interconnects).

     

    dmnc02

     

    Trust me I have always used balanced cables in my system and this was no exception.

     

    However, I was so startled by the uniqueness of the High Fidelity CT-1, which at this point is RCA only (and I doubt will ever be balanced, although who knows) that I can't go back to any of my alternatives. I don't want to start another war on these threads as I did when I innocently gave my views about my experience with these fine cables, BUT, I just want to say, I knew nothing about them when my dealer and friend brought them over, he nor I had any idea about these cables or the pseudoscience on his website, neither one of us had even known there was a website for his cable until after the fact and tried them strictly because of recommendations of a prominent speaker builder and old time reviewer from the Absolute Sound (whose opinion I trust). Needless to say, all of us who tried this cable had similar opinions. None of us shared our opinions with each other until we tried it. The first I heard what these others had to say about them was after our session with them. You are going to be hearing a lot about these cables and for good reason.

     

    I much rather use XLR cables, trust me, but these cables are just that good. Those of us that have tried them are replacing our much more expensive cables in our reference systems, yes, including Odin XLR.

     

    If you can get a pair to try I recommend doing so.

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    Priaptor
    Thanks for the input. I can just about swing the DAC2X if I do NOT need an expensive switching preamp. I could build 2 channel passive transformer based volume control for around 2K though. Why do you think the DAC2X would not work without a preamp (i.e. using digital volume control downstream). Do you think the passive transformer base volume control would work? Are you using CAPS with USB into the DAC2X, are do you use a USB converter?

     

    I am not using a switching converter. I am using a USB cable direct from CAPS into the DAC2x.

     

    You could probably do just fine with what you are talking about building. My point, was that there was no digital volume built into the unit so some interface would be needed. How good it will sound, I don't know. I am using an ARC REF5SE and am loving it.

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    edorr

    Ahh. So when you said preamp, you referred to volume control. I used to have a modwright 36.5 LS/PS and ditched it for the digital volume control after I got the PWD MKII upgrade and never looked back. May be I should get the DAC2X, see how well it works with upstream digital volume control, and if it appears to compromise (how would I know though), build the 2 channel analog volume control.

     

    You could help me out tremendously by taking your REF5 out of the chain and using the digital volume control in JRiver and see how it compares. This is close to what I am thinking of doing. robably way too much of a hassle though .....

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    barrows

    I find it quite amusing all the time how people think a transformer based volume control will be a good idea. A transformer in the signal path like this adds huge amounts of wire for the signal to travel through, and more distortion than a good active circuit. If one must use an analog volume control, I would suggest that better performance will be had with a really, really good active device, with a really, really good stepped attenuator, using really, really good resistors and switches. Alternatively, some of the newer IC based volume controls appear to be really good (as I believe ARC uses).

    Unfortunately, a really good analog, active, volume control is going to be expensive, there is no way around this, and it requires great power supplies, great switches, and lots of high quality parts throughout.

    Well implemented software (digital) volume control is a good option. The one in Pure Music is very good, I do not know anything about those available for Windows, but there must be something worth trying, perhaps HQplayer, or XXHighend...

    Of course, generally, it is good to components which are well matched from a gain standpoint in order to take advantage of a digital volume control, the need for 50 dB of attenuation seems a little high to me for critical listening. Perhaps the amplifier can have its gain lowered a little?

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    edorr

    50db would be extreme. common use would be 30-40 db. It would helpful if I could notch down the output of the DAC2X by 10db...

    The passive VC I had in mind would be based on the bent audio stagleformer units (BentAudio.com :: TAP) (look on the OEM / DIY TAP Modules page)

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    NiHo

    I should comment as somebody who uses a transformer based pre-amp, the Audio Zone Pre-T1 Pre T1 Preamp - Audio Zone. I have found it to be a significant improvement over my former active pre-amp (Bryston BP-25). There is much lower self-noise, ie I hear much more detail than with the active pre-amp. In my case all wiring is balanced. Maybe a more expensive active pre-amp would perform even better, but you are getting into some very expensive equipment.

     

    Having said which the volume control in Pure Music does perform even better, but I don't find it particularly easy to use, particularly as I'm not the only user of the system.

     

    Technically the Bent stagleformer is an autoformer, not a transformer.

     

    Nigel

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    edorr

    Nigel, that is helpful. Are you saying you prefer doing digtial volume control upstream from the DAC over using your passive pre behind the DAC, but you are using the pre for practical reasons and input switching? That would bode well for usability of the DAC2X in my configuration.

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    edorr

    With so many folks using just digital sources, any new DAC should have a volume control (digtial, analog or hybrid) in my opinion. The DAC is effectively becoming a preamp (i.e. switch + volume control). I'm surprised EMM has not picked up on this. The older EMM DAC with volume control uses the anlog circuitry from their switchman preamp I believe.

     

    I think the cheapest way to do this without comporomise is to build a digital volume control, and have a gain switch that gives you 3 or 4 output voltage levels. This would allow you to match output of the DAC to the sensitivity to your speakers, and control volume in the lossless digital range (say up to 25db attenuation). The PS audio crowd is screaming out for this (the output voltage adjustment), and it is one of their great regrets they did not include this in the original design.

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    edorr

    The ATT202 is 7K. Trow in a set of additional cables and before you know it you're talking serious money. I think using four stagleformers in a full balanced design in a DIY project will get you 95% (if not 100%) of the way there, for $2500. I would hardware a short run of input cable into the box. If a manufacturer did this this would be a $7K passive preamp, based on component prices and dealer margin.

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    edorr

    Someone mentioned on a forum "If you read the comments following the review on Computer Audiophile, variable output should be coming soon via firmware upgrade. Audio Midi Setup on the Mac already recognizes the variable output." I cannot find this reference.

     

    Chris also alludes to "enabling the digital volume control". Am i to conclude digtial volume control is in the works for the DAC2X???

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    NiHo
    Nigel, that is helpful. Are you saying you prefer doing digtial volume control upstream from the DAC over using your passive pre behind the DAC, but you are using the pre for practical reasons and input switching? That would bode well for usability of the DAC2X in my configuration.

     

    Yes, you are correct. I also have an tuner hooked-up so the Pre-T1 selects between the sources, as well as controlling the volume. Experimenting with volume control in Pure Music, and hooking the Dac directly to the amplifiers gave a slightly clearer sound, much less than the difference between the Bryston and the Pre-T1. However running a mac mini in headless mode through screen sharing, I found the volume control on PM or A+ to be clunky. It wouldn't be practical in my household.

     

    Nigel

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    edorr

    OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

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    The Computer Audiophile
    OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

     

    Excellent edorr.

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    edorr
    Excellent edorr.

     

    As I am typing this up, I am listening to my PS audio PWD MK II wondering how much better can it really get? We'll soon find out I guess.

     

    I was actually about to get the new MSB analog dac in for audition, but could not resists when the DAC2X showed up. If you can get your hands on the MSB for a review you should. The DAC IV line is to insanely priced for consideration, but the analog DAC is almost realistically priced at 10k.

     

    I might still get it myself for 30 day trial for a shoot out against the DAC2X at some point...

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    Encore
    OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

     

    Interesting. Any word on whether it would reach the Meitner MA-1 too?

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    dmnc02
    As I am typing this up, I am listening to my PS audio PWD MK II wondering how much better can it really get? We'll soon find out I guess.

     

    I was actually about to get the new MSB analog dac in for audition, but could not resists when the DAC2X showed up. If you can get your hands on the MSB for a review you should. The DAC IV line is to insanely priced for consideration, but the analog DAC is almost realistically priced at 10k.

     

    I might still get it myself for 30 day trial for a shoot out against the DAC2X at some point...

     

    Edorr, I own the DAC2X and I am also curious about comparison with the MSB Platinum IV. I would have already borrowed one for comparison were it not for the fact that I have decided that my next upgrade will be the addition of an analog front end. I would be extremely interested in reading the result of your shootout.

     

    BTW, I was the author of the post from another forum you quoted. I am glad you got confirmation of the upcoming volume control.

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    dmnc02
    dmnc02

     

    Trust me I have always used balanced cables in my system and this was no exception.

     

    However, I was so startled by the uniqueness of the High Fidelity CT-1, which at this point is RCA only (and I doubt will ever be balanced, although who knows) that I can't go back to any of my alternatives. I don't want to start another war on these threads as I did when I innocently gave my views about my experience with these fine cables, BUT, I just want to say, I knew nothing about them when my dealer and friend brought them over, he nor I had any idea about these cables or the pseudoscience on his website, neither one of us had even known there was a website for his cable until after the fact and tried them strictly because of recommendations of a prominent speaker builder and old time reviewer from the Absolute Sound (whose opinion I trust). Needless to say, all of us who tried this cable had similar opinions. None of us shared our opinions with each other until we tried it. The first I heard what these others had to say about them was after our session with them. You are going to be hearing a lot about these cables and for good reason.

     

    I much rather use XLR cables, trust me, but these cables are just that good. Those of us that have tried them are replacing our much more expensive cables in our reference systems, yes, including Odin XLR.

     

    If you can get a pair to try I recommend doing so.

     

    Priaptor, I am in no way questioning what you heard, but it is not clear from your posts whether your evaluation of the High-Fidelity CT-1 was done with the broken-in DAC2X as the source or with a different source. The DAC2X has a dual differential architecture and using it with ARC gear allows you to maintain a fully balanced configuration from source to end. Also, since the REF250's we both use have balanced inputs only, you need to mix balanced interconnects from a different brand from preamp to amp or use an adapter. Most importantly, I heard my previous emm XDS1 in a friend's system which, although very high-end, is single-ended only and was unimpressed with the performance, especially in the bass, which was much leaner than what I was used to hearing in my system or in my friend's system with his regular source. While there were admittedly several variables at play other than the outputs being used, it seemed to warrant a suggestion to experiment with the DAC2X's outputs in your system if you have not already done so.

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    barrows

    Interesting:

     

    The EMM and Meitner DACs both convert to analog in a single bit architecture, I wonder how a digital volume control is going to work? Most digital volume controls need a large bit rate in which to operate, the best ones use a 32, 48 or 64 bit path in order to maintain high resolution. I wonder what EMM/Meitner is doing here?

     

    EMM vs. MSB: I could imagine two more fundamentally opposed approaches to D/A conversion. EMM/Meitner, and Ed Meitner himself appear to believe that a single bit system, with very high sample rate, with a Delts Sigma modulator is the best way to go, and so they convert all incoming rates to a single bit high sample rate format for conversion. MSB, on the other hand, appears to believe that Delta Sigma converters are "bad", and so they convert all incoming rates to a multi bit format (including DSD) and then convert to analog using a discrete, resistor based, ladder DAC.

     

    I have no opinion myself, but I do find it interesting that these two companies, both who seem committed to the best possible sound, have entirely opposite points of view on the best way to achieve the result they are looking for.

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