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    austinpop

    By austinpop •

    My Quest for a New DAC - Introduction to the Series

    Editor's Note: This is the first article in a new series from CA contributor austinpop. I'm sure the anti-pseudonym crowd is already up in arms, but that's OK. I've personally met autinpop on a couple occasions and we've exchanged enough communications that I'm extremely comfortable with his credibility, experience, and knowledge. 

     

    I recently had a manufacturer email me to say he couldn't find a single review written by austinpop online and was concerned about credibility. Releasing a product to someone unknown to him could be a recipe for disaster. This was comforting in a way because the manufacturer really cared about who would write the review and wouldn't just supply products to anyone who could type better than a monkey and supply accolades. I told the manufacturer, and will tell the CA Community here, that I stand behind austinpop as a very credible person who will write his unbiased opinion and correspond with the Community in his usual professional fashion. 

     

    We may no agree on everything when it comes to audio, but that's part of what makes his new series of articles even better and what makes this hobby so wonderful. Plus, people have to be sick of me by now :~)

     

    Enjoy this introduction from austinpop and the followup coming later this week.

     

    - Chris

     
     
     
     
    My Quest for a New DAC - Introduction to the Series
     
     
    Earlier this year, Chris and I discussed the possibility of my writing an article (or series of articles) for CA's front page. I told him I wanted to be true to my voice, and write about gear the way I did in my forum posts: in the context of my own audio journey. To my surprise, he agreed! He also said it would pay handsomely, enabling me, and several future generations, never to work again. Ok - that second part never happened.
     
    While I've been active on CA forums for a couple of years, most CA'ers probably don't know my background. I'm your classic computer technologist, with a long career as a software architect and senior executive in the computer industry. My area of expertise is the performance and scalability of distributed computing systems, so tuning and optimization is in my blood. Despite my techie background, my approach to music and audio is subjective. My goal is to enjoy music in the deepest and most satisfying way I can afford. I trust my ears, and they are always the final arbiter in my decisions.
     
    If you've seen my posts here on CA, especially in the monster A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming thread, you know I've been spending a lot of time, effort, and money on optimizing the digital chain upstream of the DAC. If you'd asked me 2 years ago what the most important piece of digital gear in my audio chain was, I would have said - the DAC. What I wouldn't have said - since I had no idea - was that the chain leading up to the DAC matters too. Profoundly.
     
     
    My Gear
     
    For many years, my audio setup languished, as the demands of my career and raising my kids took up most of my time. A couple years ago, I became an empty nester, and made a career change to part-time consultant. This finally gave me the time to refresh and enjoy my audio setup. I wanted to build a high-end headphone setup - my home situation doesn't allow me the luxury of a speaker-based setup that I can drive to realistic levels. I started with the following system:
    • all my music on a Synology NAS, running minimServer as the UPnP server
    • Auralic Aries Mini streamer, as UPnP renderer, over USB to
    • Ayre Codex DAC
    • Cavalli Liquid Gold headphone amp
    • Sennheiser HD800 headphones, with Super Dupont (SD) mod
     
    Of course, this system took several steps to assemble in its own right, but followed what I would term a conventional path - of selecting or upgrading transducers, amplification, and the source (DAC). As far as I was concerned, the NAS, the network gear, and the streamer provided enablement, with no audio impact or consequence. After all, with a PhD in computer networking, I thought I knew a thing or two about CSMA/CD, TCP/IP, sliding windows, flow control, the lot. Bits were bits, after all. 9_9
     
    Fast forward to today, and the conventional part of my system has not changed, from the DAC downstream. I still have the Codex, the Cavalli and the HD800 (now joined by an Audioquest Nighthawk). But upstream of the DAC, there have been major change. Here is a picture of my current system.
     
     
    Audio-topology.png
     

    How I upgrade - where should I spend my next $?
     
    If you stare at this chain long enough, and start adding price tags, you'll see the upstream components dwarf the DAC itself in cost - in MSRP terms, by a factor of 5x or more. What madness is this?! Yet I can honestly say that I got to this point by asking myself at each point of upgrade: where should I spend my next $? And time after time, I found that the biggest sonic bang for buck came from upstream changes. Not only that, with every increase in refinement, my trusty little Codex scaled right up. Every sonic upgrade was truthfully reflected by the little guy.
     
    In fact, with a recent major upgrade - the addition of the Innuos Zenith SE server - I wrote in my CA review:
     
    It occurred to me that with the loaner (Ayre) QX-5 sitting in my room, I actually had the makings of a very interesting experiment - i.e, compare these two (approaches):
     
    • Upgrade the DAC: replace the Codex with the QX-5 in my current chain
    • Upgrade the music player: replace my current chain with the SE chain in finding 1, keeping my Codex DAC

     

    Cost wise, these are in the same ballpark, depending on whether you factor in retail vs. used cost, and the resale value of superseded gear. Not perfect, but an interesting comparison.
     
    ... Upgrading to the SE chain yielded more bang for the buck - to my ears - than upgrading the DAC. Now of course, upgrading both was to be transported to a divine plane, where you recline on a cloud, caressed by sunbeams, while angels sing. :D 
     
    With my current system, I am well and truly in the realm of diminishing returns in my upstream chain, so I am finally at the point where the answer to "where should I spend my next upgrade $" is resoundingly: the DAC. Which brings me - about time, they groan! - to the point of this article series. What DAC is a worthy successor to my beloved Codex, in my system?
     
     
     
    Picking my next DAC 
     
    In my experience, modern DACs almost universally sound good. Very good. I have personally heard great sonics all the way from a $99 Audioquest Dragonfly Black to a $13k Chord DAVE in my system. As I evaluate DACs in this series, the question will not be whether they sound good or bad, but whether they speak to my soul. My focus will be on synergy - with my system, my ears, and my preferences.
     
    If there's one DAC that I consider my reference, it would be the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. I've had it on loan from my friendly dealer a couple of times, and with it, my system really sings. It elevates everything I love about the Codex to a new level of refinement and physical authority. At its $9k price point, it's just too rich for my blood, but it sets a bar against which to gauge other DACs I evaluate.
     
    So what am I looking for in my next DAC? First and foremost, a significant improvement in sound quality, within about a $5k price budget. Next up, I'm interested to include DACs with full MQA decoding in my evaluations. I know MQA is a format that engenders strong feelings in audiophiles, across the spectrum from hyperbole to paranoia. My question is simply this - how does it sound? And to determine that, I need to hear a full MQA DAC in my system. The other question is: how important is MQA to me? Everyone has different musical tastes and habits. Some people amass vast libraries of music they own, while others rely almost exclusively on streaming from Tidal and Qobuz, etc. I wanted to explore Tidal for MQA content, and gauge not only how it sounds, but how much content is really out there.
     
     
     
    My Musical Tastes and Habits
     
    I listen predominantly to classical music, mostly orchestral and choral. Beyond that, I dabble in progressive and classic rock from the 60s and 70s, jazz, and Indian classical music. When it comes to formats, I may be atypical. While about 70% of my collection is redbook CD, in terms of what I actually listen to day to day, high-resolution formats predominate: DSD, various 24-bit PCM formats, followed by 16/44.1. This may be easier to understand when you consider that in classical music, SACD, i.e. DSD, is alive and well. I have 300+ SACDs in my collection, which have been ripped to DSF files - and my collection size is probably on the smaller end of the spectrum for classical fans.
     
    What this means is that DSD and 24-bit PCM performance are both equally important to me.
     
     
     
    Without further ado...
     
    With that background, let's dive in. In the first installment, I evaluate the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, along with the Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply.
     
     
     
     
     
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    austinpop
    4 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

    @Austinpop nice introduction - should be an interesting series.  My only concern is that you may be tempted to gravitate towards the $5000 'budget' that you appear to have in mind, as if price correlates to sound quality performance.  My career in consumer products marketing (together with my audio hobby) tells me to be deeply suspicious of this assumption.  You may well find all the DAC you need or want at $1000, if you can only put cost at the back of your mind.  I would find it much more revealing if you could use your analytical  skills to determine how much SQ actually improves as you climb the price ladder from products like the RME ADI-2 and Mytek Liberty through various Schiits, Exasounds and Benchmarks.  You obviously can't test everything but I hope you can offer a range of cost perspectives.  My prediction is massively diminishing returns as you increase expenditure. 

     

    Well, I'm not signing up to analyze dozens of DACs, but I do understand your point! 

     

    Let's wait for the first review to come out, and see what you think. My intent is to focus on comparative impressions, to highlight the differences, and to your point, put into context what value the extra $$$ are providing. Or not.

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    austinpop
    2 hours ago, Norton said:

    This looks good.   I’d say your situation is reasonably close to mine so I will be interested to see what you choose.

     

    My sense is that there is comparatively  little at the $3k>$5k mark that is MQA capable, either much less or much more.  Maybe timing will allow the Pro iDSd to be considered, on the assumption that it will be MQA capable?   Also interesting to see whether you conclude that a “full” MQA DAC is worthwhile or better just to stick with initial decode.  

     

    Good luck with the quest.

     

    Yes, I'm hoping to get a look at the Pro iDSD, since it accepts an external PSU, accepts an external 10 MHz reference clock, among other things. 

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    austinpop
    2 hours ago, davide256 said:

    Not surprising to see experience with vinyl duplicated with digital...source is the most important part of the chain for investment. @austinpop - one thing I am curious about is if you have any sense of priority observed in upgrading individual functions in the source chain? And yea, its hard to justify a new DAC when you know the source can do more with a next upgrade. Eager to see what you share on DAC's

     

    Hi Dave,

     

    Yeah, my path to where I am in my system has been rather convoluted, largely because it was a process of discovery for me, and been guided by the valuable discoveries of many others here on CA. Even now, I would hesitate to prioritize, as everything matters! There are multiple, somewhat correlated, axes of improvement, and rich sonic rewards accrue if you optimize along these multiple axes, which include:

    1. AC power
    2. DC power supplies
    3. grounding
    4. clocking
    5. regeneration/signal integrity

    The "A novel..." thread is the place where this has been chronicled over the past 16+ months.

     

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    mrmb

    Not limited to a budget of $5k, but nevertheless one of the best DAC's posts (with over 4k replies) I've followed is this one:  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd?sort_order=desc

     

    If anyone here hasn't seen this, it is a good read....

     

    Quote

    My prediction is massively diminishing returns as you increase expenditure. 

     

    Unfortunately, for the most part, this quote is a theorem in this hobby as with most others, where the question of price verses performance is concerned.  I say unfortunately, because my wallet wishes it weren't so.  For most of my audiophile life, I didn't delve deeply into the very high-end cost wise.  But once I crossed a particular milestone, I realized I wasn't getting any younger.  So, I began thinking that if I didn't extend my budget then, I may never have the opportunity to.  Hence, while my overall health and more importantly my hearing acuity were as good as they would ever be, I jumped into the very high-end first with amplification and later with other components and have never regretted  it.  

     

    But I do totally agree that price and results are oftentimes anything but correlative, which I suppose is one of the main reasons why we're involved with and interested in forums such as this.  

     

    Lastly, Austinpop, I look forward to reading what you uncover on your quest, thanks for sharing....

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    austinpop
    11 minutes ago, mrmb said:

    Not limited to a budget of $5k, but nevertheless one of the best DAC's posts (with over 4k replies) I've followed is this one:  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd?sort_order=desc

     

    If anyone here hasn't seen this, it is a good read....

     

     

    Unfortunately, for the most part, this quote is a theorem in this hobby as with most others, where the question of price verses performance is concerned.  I say unfortunately, because my wallet wishes it weren't so.  For most of my audiophile life, I didn't delve deeply into the very high-end cost wise.  But once I crossed a particular milestone, I realized I wasn't getting any younger.  So, I began thinking that if I didn't extend my budget then, I may never have the opportunity to.  Hence, while my overall health and more importantly my hearing acuity were as good as they would ever be, I jumped into the very high-end first with amplification and later with other components and have never regretted  it.  

     

    But I do totally agree that price and results are oftentimes anything but correlative, which I suppose is one of the main reasons why we're involved with and interested in forums such as this.  

     

    Lastly, Austinpop, I look forward to reading what you uncover on your quest, thanks for sharing....

     

    Thanks! And you raise a brilliant point - there comes “a certain age” where you realize that if you really want to experience the high end in audio in the time you still have your health and hearing, opening the wallet - assuming you can afford it - is warranted. And justifiable.

     

    And an understanding spouse!

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    rickca
    18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

    there comes “a certain age”

    Like a midlife crisis, only later.

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    leedom

    Okay, so I'm also in the Computer Systems/Networking Industry and "bits are in fact, just bits". If you don't buy off on that, then don't have a modern Bank Account, deal with Medical Imaging, etc.  All areas where the integrity of the data matter a lot more than Audio.

     

    I would be very interested to know whether your DAC is using Isochronous Mode and Asynchronous Mode + ASRC on its USB Input. If it's using Isochronous Mode, then there are any number of issues which can happen when the Source Device doesn't deliver the Audio Data at exactly the right time (jitter, dropouts, etc.).  I'd also be interested in knowing how good your DAC was in it Analog Section at insulating itself electrical (galvanic) noise.

     

    In the end of the day, you're supposed to be delivering Digital Audio Data to the DAC in a timely manner for it to do it's Digital-to-Analog Conversion. If the correct Digital Audio Data isn't making it through, or being corrupted, etc. that's a pretty simple problem compared to what we're doing in High-Speed Networking these days (with Banking Records, Medical Images, etc.).

     

    Casey

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    austinpop
    16 minutes ago, leedom said:

    Okay, so I'm also in the Computer Systems/Networking Industry and "bits are in fact, just bits". If you don't buy off on that, then don't have a modern Bank Account, deal with Medical Imaging, etc.  All areas where the integrity of the data matter a lot more than Audio.

     

    I would be very interested to know whether your DAC is using Isochronous Mode and Asynchronous Mode + ASRC on its USB Input. If it's using Isochronous Mode, then there are any number of issues which can happen when the Source Device doesn't deliver the Audio Data at exactly the right time (jitter, dropouts, etc.).  I'd also be interested in knowing how good your DAC was in it Analog Section at insulating itself electrical (galvanic) noise.

     

    In the end of the day, you're supposed to be delivering Digital Audio Data to the DAC in a timely manner for it to do it's Digital-to-Analog Conversion. If the correct Digital Audio Data isn't making it through, or being corrupted, etc. that's a pretty simple problem compared to what we're doing in High-Speed Networking these days (with Banking Records, Medical Images, etc.).

     

    Casey

     

    This topic engenders strong feelings on both sides of the issue, so I do not plan to debate this here. Suffice it to say that I, like many others, hear differences in the digital transport chain to the DAC, and I detailed my system to show my optimizations to those who are interested. Since I am an end user - not the designer or manufacturer - it is not incumbent on me, or even possible for me to explain why I hear these differences - I just do. You are of course welcome to consider all of it unnecessary, but for the topic at hand - DACs - the upstream chain is orthogonal.

     

    This series is about DACs, so let's focus there.

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    firedog

    austinpop-

    What's your max budget MSRP for the DAC? You mentioned $5000, is that it?

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    Audiophile Neuroscience
    5 hours ago, austinpop said:

     

     there comes “a certain age” where you realize that if you really want to experience the high end in audio in the time you still have your health and hearing, opening the wallet - assuming you can afford it - is warranted. And justifiable.

     

    And an understanding spouse!

     

    Yes Indeed.

     

    6 hours ago, austinpop said:

     

     this is my quest, so the only one I'm satisfying for sure is me. :D

     

    Yes Indeed.

     

     

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    austinpop
    10 minutes ago, firedog said:

    austinpop-

    What's your max budget MSRP for the DAC? You mentioned $5000, is that it?

     

    That's the ballpark. It's not a wall, just a target.

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    austinpop
    5 hours ago, rickca said:

    Like a midlife crisis, only later.

     

    Yes. 

     

    "Opening your wallet" can also be synonymous with "trading in the red convertible." ? 

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    agladstone

    @austinpop I look forward to reading your next installment and this entire series (along with your findings). 

    This introductory installment foreshadows your investigative nature, the history of your journey and upgrades and evaluation process very well. 

    From following your posts and reviews of products on CA over the past couple of years, I have no doubt in your capability and qualifications to provide us CA members with unbiased and well written reviews of the DAC’s you trialed for this series! 

    I am already looking forward to your next series after this one is completed :) 

    Congratulations! 

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    firedog
    1 hour ago, austinpop said:

     

    That's the ballpark. It's not a wall, just a target.

    I auditioned numerous DACs about a year ago, up to about $10000 ones.

    My favorite was the Playback Designs Merlot, that sells for $6500. But it does come up used occasionslly as people trade up. Might be worth auditioning

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    feelingears

    @austinpop +1 more excited vote for your efforts, and a suggestion/request:

     

    As you know, it's fascinating to hear about how others have found synergistic combinations. I'm supremely grateful to have lived thru a car accident around the same time I discovered @JohnSwenson and @Superdad's contributions to harnessing that which we don't "fully" understand, and I too found upstream improvements transformed my office system and then my living room system. I had the pleasure of many, many, many hours of physical therapy during which I experimented with all manner of component and cable changes and combinations to arrive at my own audio nirvana.

     

    So I'm hoping your comparisons will involve your other CA friends and their impressions too because the audio biases between us are difficult to convey. Some want more soundstaging, others better timbre, still others more resolution in the attack/decay of the waveforms, and on and on and it becomes challenging fun attempting to make consistent comparisons across recordings and genres. It's useful to have these comparisons because eventually price does play a role in the decision and we want to maximize those intangible qualities.    

     

    I just got the Yggy A2. It replaces the Gumby and an AGD DAC-19. Massively diminishing price returns? Well, not if you have an ear for the intangibles, and certainly not if you amortize the cost! Music is by far the most flexible and cost effective entertainment and for me, it's consistently exciting and satisfying on an emotional and intellectual level. Especially on a good sound system. I owe this in large part to people here because I've learned that yep, in audio everything matters. 

     

    Thanks @The Computer Audiophile, for making this possible. We look forward to even more massively novel explorations–cheers!

     

     

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    kirkmc
    16 hours ago, austinpop said:

     

    Nothing's wrong with my current DAC. In fact, I love it dearly, as you'll see in the subsequent review. 

     

    But I'm always looking for more and trying new things. I confess I have the itch! Without the upgrade itch, CA wouldn't be nearly as active as it is. :)

     

    I understand gear lust, but not so much with audio equipment. Since one usually doesn't buy audio gear for "features" - ie, it does this, and my current one doesn't do it (though MQA is an exception) - I don't find myself wanting to spend more money for some mythical "better sound" that I have been trained to think is inherent in a higher price. I do have gear lust for, say, cameras, where you know what is better about a different model: the features are clear and measurable. 

     

    And I'm not criticizing; I just asked the question because, in your article, you didn't say that there was anything wrong with your current DAC (other than MQA), so I thought it would be interesting to know why you wanted to buy something better. 

     

    I look forward to following your thinking through this series. 

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    amir57bs

    I hope a company like CEC go for producing a music server with spdif output. I have paid near 20k$ for Computer audio but the sound is not as good as  CEC TLX 3.0

     

     

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    rothosand

    Within a 5k$ budget, I would seriously consider a Denafrips Terminator DAC...

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    exdmd

    I look forward to your review of the Brooklyn DAC+. The DAC+ pushed all the right buttons for me. I refuse to pay more than $2500 for a DAC out of general principles. It has MQA and a phono stage, as I plan to buy a turntable later this year. Vinyl is calling to me again. There will always be something more expensive to obsess over; the DAC+ works for me. I even bought the Mytek Liberty to use at work.

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    austinpop
    4 hours ago, rothosand said:

    Within a 5k$ budget, I would seriously consider a Denafrips Terminator DAC...

     

    On my list. Heard the demo at AXPONA, very impressed.

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    austinpop

    Thanks for the suggestions. There's no way I'll be able to try all of them, but it is good to know what's out there.

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    gdpr

    As I fully understand you will not be able to test all proposed dacs (let alone all the dacs within budget available on the market), it would be very interesting to understand what are your criteria to select the ones you are going to test.

    Will it be criteria such as free loan by the manufacturer, or are there some distinct criteria that would 'encourage' you or CA to buy a DAC for testing purposes. Should dac's be distributed in the US, via traditional dealership (as Sterophile does) or do you accept worling directly via the internet with e.g. a South-African (just to say something different than chinese) manufacturer.

    Or would it be based on looks and design, on a pure personal basis?

    What I am trying to say here, that the selection process is as important as the actual tests and reviews as well.

     

    Looking forward to your opinions on this?

     

    Dirk

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    thyname

    Very interesting topic! Thanks for sharing @austinpop

     

    I have a feeling for that price range you mentioned, you will go back to Ayre QX-5 Twenty. That's what I have. Yes, it's not MQA, but I was told it can be upgraded with a firmware upgrade at home, with no need to send it back to Ayre. That is if Ayre decides to integrate MQA, which is not a given.

     

    Yes, I know it is a hair below $9,000 for full blown version, but maybe you can get a version with less inputs, and perhaps a "friendly" dealer willing to cut you some slack.

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    20hertz

    Isn't the next big improvement to get away from USB and all those expensive boxes?

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