Audiophile Optimizer Raises The Bar

Nobody remembers this huh? Call me very skeptical (and Chris, it is not clear to me you actually level matched when you did an A/B, perhaps you did but it isn't clear).

Everybody, and I mean everybody remembers it.

Please, let's not discuss this topic again (and again and again).

Those who are skeptical will likely have to make peace with that condition.

Joel

Nobody remembers this huh? Call me very skeptical (and Chris, it is not clear to me you actually level matched when you did an A/B, perhaps you did but it isn't clear).

JPlay was not used in my tests. Levels were matched perfectly because the only thing that changed was the PC used for outputting bit perfect audio.

Well the ultimate... ok... Have actually done much of what you have mentioned. Linux on different platforms and a number of devices and have not achieved near the sound quality I have with

Server 2012 R2, AO and JPlay 6.1 Streamer.

How much customisation of Linux have you done, on what hardware, and additionally which OS, Kernel, ALSA version? Was it with native DSD? Which DAC? What overall audio system configuration were you using?

Chris, will you be divulging more info regarding the hardware used?

Or perhaps a new caps server specifically for AO?

Chris, will you be divulging more info regarding the hardware used?

Or perhaps a new caps server specifically for AO?

The hardware used is really not the issue. The software is not that hardware specific. There is a wealth of info here and on the JPlay board on systems people are running. The system Chris was running was clearly low powered, an Atom or Bay Trail CPU. What hardware do you currently have? Win Server is a free demo, give i a try.

How much customisation of Linux have you done, on what hardware, and additionally which OS, Kernel, ALSA version? Was it with native DSD? Which DAC? What overall audio system configuration were you using?

You forgot room temperature, wind velocity or if my speakers were facing Mecca???

JPlay was not used in my tests. Levels were matched perfectly because the only thing that changed was the PC used for outputting bit perfect audio.

Right, but A/O is making the same claims that JPlay is. Lower overall resource usage of a system equates to better sound DESPITE the fact that in both cases, it was bit perfect. I don't know enough about Windows to comment on 7 vs 12 differences.

Thanks for confirming they were level matched though. Much appreciated.

You forgot room temperature, wind velocity or if my speakers were facing Mecca???

Well if you were not serious about it...

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Well if you were not serious about it...

 

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Very serious and been doing much too long to have to play quiz show... Sorry.

You did the same think recently in another thread. Try respecting peoples opinions, and if you have some reasonable respectful interests there can be a discussion.

Bob, from an outsider's perspective that didn't sound like an opinion (the room temp/velocity/mecca comment) that sounded like condescension. Could have just been joking around but that's hard to gauge in text sometimes.

I've very recently changed over to Server2012 R2 from Win7 Ultimate. I have them both set up on the same PC I've been using all along just on different SSDs. I can boot from one to the other in under a minute and listen to the EXACT same part of a track I was just listening to in the other OS. There is nothing subtle going on here and if one were to try this and report back they heard no difference, I would question whether that person has a noisy listening space, a severe blockage in their ears, and I would then test them to see if they could hear a difference between FLAC and 96 kbps MP3. It's hard to throw out terms like "night and day" but in this case - much as it pains me to say as I am generally very cynical about this sort of stuff - it's a significant uptick in detail, "air," and realism. For me it didn't really do anything to the timbral aspects of my system, 2012R2 + AO just reveals more of the music, allowing the listener to truly peer into the recording at a very fine level of detail.

I had a group of non-audiophile friends over last night after a birthday party. Each of them, even the skeptics and "I don't really care much about how it sounds" friends of mine left the room nodding their heads that yea, they just heard something special. And my setup is nothing to most people on here - a simple, quiet PC, a $600 DAC, a $200 solid state amp, $1500 in DIY speakers, $250 in two powered subs, room treatments and good source material. One friend in particular who has recorded music (on both sides of the wall) said he felt like he was listening in a studio, as the music was being recorded. His was the only trained ear of the bunch.

In any case, I am planning on moving up the chain in a few respects soon, due mainly to how much AO has upped the fun factor for me. Music now just has more life, more drama to it. And I know it isn't changing the actual audio signal, it's just making it the priority on so many levels.

Bob, from an outsider's perspective that didn't sound like an opinion (the room temp/velocity/mecca comment) that sounded like condescension. Could have just been joking around but that's hard to gauge in text sometimes.

 

I've very recently changed over to Server2012 R2 from Win7 Ultimate. I have them both set up on the same PC I've been using all along just on different SSDs. I can boot from one to the other in under a minute and listen to the EXACT same part of a track I was just listening to in the other OS. There is nothing subtle going on here and if one were to try this and report back they heard no difference, I would question whether that person has a noisy listening space, a severe blockage in their ears, and I would then test them to see if they could hear a difference between FLAC and 96 kbps MP3. It's hard to throw out terms like "night and day" but in this case - much as it pains me to say as I am generally very cynical about this sort of stuff - it's a significant uptick in detail, "air," and realism. For me it didn't really do anything to the timbral aspects of my system, 2012R2 + AO just reveals more of the music, allowing the listener to truly peer into the recording at a very fine level of detail.

 

I had a group of non-audiophile friends over last night after a birthday party. Each of them, even the skeptics and "I don't really care much about how it sounds" friends of mine left the room nodding their heads that yea, they just heard something special. And my setup is nothing to most people on here - a simple, quiet PC, a $600 DAC, a $200 solid state amp, $1500 in DIY speakers, $250 in two powered subs, room treatments and good source material. One friend in particular who has recorded music (on both sides of the wall) said he felt like he was listening in a studio, as the music was being recorded. His was the only trained ear of the bunch.

 

In any case, I am planning on moving up the chain in a few respects soon, due mainly to how much AO has upped the fun factor for me. Music now just has more life, more drama to it. And I know it isn't changing the actual audio signal, it's just making it the priority on so many levels.

Hi,

My Response was such because the inquisitor has a propensity for being a troll, but I would gladly discuss this with anyone that's truly interested.

I have a good amount of hardware but currently I listen to either Yamaha NS1000 or Celestion SL 600s. Which are driven by Hypex UDC400 hxrs. Controlled by a Lightspeed attenuator. The DACs I use are a Minimax plus with Dexa discrete op-amps, a Pacific valve modified NOS tube DAC or a Aune S16 which is really a sleeper in my opinion and a bargain. I occasionally use Stax electrostatics headphones.

When it comes to systems I have about 5 different ARM boards which I have tried many iterations of Linux software. I've also tried Linux on several Intel platforms including Atom Caps, Bay Trail and Xeon server. My main music server systems are Intel Xeon, PPA USB cards in fanless cases running server 2012 r2 audiophile Optimizer and Jplay streamer.

Curious about you speakers, I have been building speakers for 40 years.

Regards

Bob

We're saying that Win 2012 R2 with AO removes as much OS interference from the signal chain as possible therefore lowering the "noise floor" and increasing overall resolution. I'm running a dedicated media pc via a Dell workstation with dual xeon processors, 16gb ecc ram, Samsung 128 gig pro SSD, No name USB 3 pci card, WD Green 1tb internal storage drive, Win 8.1 and JRiver, Audioquest USB to a McIntosh MAC6700 the DAC on the McIntosh is capable of 32/192 pcm.

I have Jriver set to play everything from memory, for the most part anytime I've monitored it's resources while Jriver is running it's basically using no resources, the fans never even kick in. I've experimented with Jplay and did hear a difference if Jplay wasn't so unstable with my McIntosh drivers I'd use it.

I'm going to take a shot at 2012 & AO and expect to hear a difference with that setup but I don't understand why? Jriver playing from memory should negate interference from the OS or anything downstream of memory so why/how can anything improve on something that should be removed from the equation?

We're saying that Win 2012 R2 with AO removes as much OS interference from the signal chain as possible therefore lowering the "noise floor" and increasing overall resolution.

If THAT is true than you can quantify it with some simple measurements. But I'll bet the noise floor is the same with or without AO unless the units had some serious hardware issues to begin with (or other interference outside the scope of this discussion).

EDIT: The noise floor btw will most likely be so low, it won't be audible to begin with.

Jriver playing from memory should negate interference from the OS or anything downstream of memory...

How did you reach this conclusion?

If THAT is true than you can quantify it with some simple measurements. But I'll bet the noise floor is the same with or without AO unless the units had some serious hardware issues to begin with (or other interference outside the scope of this discussion).

 

EDIT: The noise floor btw will most likely be so low, it won't be audible to begin with.

Hi

i'll happily offer you a personal copy if you want to try/hear/measure.

very best,

Phil

We're saying that Win 2012 R2 with AO removes as much OS interference from the signal chain as possible therefore lowering the "noise floor" and increasing overall resolution. I'm running a dedicated media pc via a Dell workstation with dual xeon processors, 16gb ecc ram, Samsung 128 gig pro SSD, No name USB 3 pci card, WD Green 1tb internal storage drive, Win 8.1 and JRiver, Audioquest USB to a McIntosh MAC6700 the DAC on the McIntosh is capable of 32/192 pcm.

 

I have Jriver set to play everything from memory, for the most part anytime I've monitored it's resources while Jriver is running it's basically using no resources, the fans never even kick in. I've experimented with Jplay and did hear a difference if Jplay wasn't so unstable with my McIntosh drivers I'd use it.

 

I'm going to take a shot at 2012 & AO and expect to hear a difference with that setup but I don't understand why? Jriver playing from memory should negate interference from the OS or anything downstream of memory so why/how can anything improve on something that should be removed from the equation?

hi

unfortunately it's a bit more complex than just moving the source from disk to RAM. There are countless other parameters that matter as well. AO takes literally hundreds of such parameters into the equation for you, by the press of a few buttons.

you won't regret, for sure. We also offer a trial, if you are in doubt. Nothing to loose :-)

very best,

Phil

Try respecting peoples opinions, and if you have some reasonable respectful interests there can be a discussion.

How about you follow your own advice. I am talking about serious issues with Computer playback and you are cynical about it because you probably don't know the intricate details.

Bob, from an outsider's perspective that didn't sound like an opinion (the room temp/velocity/mecca comment) that sounded like condescension.

Exactly.

But you can take that same motherboard and instead of running Windows on it, run Linux. So not the clock, USB, and memory are all the same. You have a barebones OS with fewer processes than a Windows box can ever have.

 

If sound quality is greatly improved by limiting processes, I'm wondering why Linux on the same hardware wouldn't always sound better.

Good question, I know MS did specific optimisation around sound and other things that PeterSt and sbgk mentioned at one point.

It would be interesting to know the details. Perhaps the architecture is so specific to MS that it cannot easily be back-ported to Linux, perhaps not.

I wouldn't discount the experience of people saying they get better sound with Win, but it would be great to have the same recent motherboard with the bare essentials tested with both OSes, with the Linux one pared down to the barest essentials. I'm specifically interested in DSD256 and above, but others may want to compare PCM only. Up-conversion results could be interesting as well.

My Response was such because the inquisitor has a propensity for being a troll,

I don't feed the trolls like you often do.

Give it a rest people. Nobody is here to score your verbal jousting game.

How did you reach this conclusion?

Please keep in mind that I'm asking questions not making statements of fact. Thanks to information I've found on this site I can honestly say that this medium has the ability to meet or surpass the quality of other 2 channel source mediums I use. My thoughts are based on experience gained in the data center not the media pc world.

That said from my view point it seems logical that once you've loaded the bits in memory all that needs to take place is for them be moved to the DAC. I understand that this requires use of hardware drivers and processing but that should be very minimal. It doesn't or at least seems like it shouldn't need Jriver or in my setup windows audio drivers at this point. I would also think the output wouldn't be susceptible to any interference from hard drive motors spinning etc.

If I'm way off I'm sure there's a thread someplace that will get me up to speed. If there is please paste in the link. If not, if you could take the time to provide a high level over view of where my thought process went wrong it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Please keep in mind that I'm asking questions not making statements of fact. Thanks to information I've found on this site I can honestly say that this medium has the ability to meet or surpass the quality of other 2 channel source mediums I use. My thoughts are based on experience gained in the data center not the media pc world.

 

That said from my view point it seems logical that once you've loaded the bits in memory all that needs to take place is for them be moved to the DAC. I understand that this requires use of hardware drivers and processing but that should be very minimal. It doesn't or at least seems like it shouldn't need Jriver or in my setup windows audio drivers at this point. I would also think the output wouldn't be susceptible to any interference from hard drive motors spinning etc.

 

If I'm way off I'm sure there's a thread someplace that will get me up to speed. If there is please paste in the link. If not, if you could take the time to provide a high level over view of where my thought process went wrong it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Problem is there are kind of a million threads on this, so impossible to link to them all.

I think the JRiver developer would tell you you're on the right track and forget about software or OS tweaking. Others like me think we hear differences, but I freely admit it could be all in my head.

Probably the simplest thing is to take advantage of the free trials available for software players and OS optimizers, and see whether *you* hear a difference. If you don't, how would anything we say convince you that you do? And if you do, how could anyone convince you that you don't? So rather than hanging around here waiting to be persuaded one way or the other, just go have fun and listen for yourself.

Problem is there are kind of a million threads on this, so impossible to link to them all.

 

I think the JRiver developer would tell you you're on the right track and forget about software or OS tweaking. Others like me think we hear differences, but I freely admit it could be all in my head.

 

Probably the simplest thing is to take advantage of the free trials available for software players and OS optimizers, and see whether *you* hear a difference. If you don't, how would anything we say convince you that you do? And if you do, how could anyone convince you that you don't? So rather than hanging around here waiting to be persuaded one way or the other, just go have fun and listen for yourself.

I agree, that's why I experiment as I go. my next step is to try the 2012/AO setup.

Hi

 

i'll happily offer you a personal copy if you want to try/hear/measure.

 

very best,

Phil

How would we go about that?