Windows 7 Audio & J River Media Center 14 Configuration

Wow blindjim, I get the sense you are a pretty difficult customer to satisfy :~)<br />

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I disagree with nearly everything you said or have insinuated with your comments in this thread. J River is by far the best music playback application available today. <br />

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J River is one of the only companies that actually listens to the needs of audiophiles and improves its application based on audiophile requests. Try talking to Apple about support for WASAPI, DLNA, etc...<br />

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Unlike many other applications that are free, JRMC has been constantly improved over the years. The new WASAPI Event Style is a huge improvement. I encourage everyone to read about what it actually does. <br />

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On the other hand I too have expressed my concern for the auto import function within JRMC. Last year I mentioned this when I visited the JR office. I received the same answer as posted here. I'm OK with the answer even though I may not like it. JR knows its customer base much better than I. I guess If I want the "perfect" application for me I would have to write it myself. That's not going to happen. I also would like if my Wife's VW would stop the dinging noise if I don't buckle my seatbelt while the car is parked in the driveway. I'm afraid that's not going to happen either. Such is life. <br />

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Fortunately there are a variety of other options when it comes to automobiles and music playback applications. <br />

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...for video does seem a better path to proceed down than the one they have chosen.<br />

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Preventing lockups too when traversing file types is as well a thing to look into.<br />

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I can't recall how many times I've used the Windows 3 finger salute ... control > Alt > Delete... to quit JR MC... from version 12 to and thru 15.... and on 4 different computers and 2 operating systems!!<br />

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Nope... the common denominator has to be held responsible. I did think otherwise at first though... after a few machines, souping a few of them up, and getting one based for uber gaming meaning plenty of HP on tap... it's in the bloated MC software...<br />

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What now tickles me is the notes Jim puts in on or about Unknown bewildering instances of malfunctioning. Chalking it all up to the mysteries of the dark and sinister world Cyberland or Windows OS's. <br />

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If so... where's the fix? the precautionary statements? or the "Avoid doing this... or that..." statements.<br />

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Illuminating the insstall process... just adding in screen shots of working viable MC configs on this feature or that... sliming down or completely disjoining an upscale audio player from it's TV, DVD, and Theater facets all seem erstwhile ventures that would make life easier and less frustrating for everyone concerend.... on both sides of the media player's, "one size fits all' fence.<br />

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I'll not even venture into the remote control or networked areas of it.

... I get everything you are saying... though it is from a perspective I am not obliged to share.<br />

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All of my comments come from a user perspective and computer based experience level that is far less than that of your own. <br />

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Consequently from MY perspective, it is all quite valid.<br />

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I don't have your inside line to JR MC authors.<br />

do not have your knowledge of pc and software operations.<br />

I don’t think I have your exp with Windows Operating Systems either.<br />

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Everything I have ever posted online here or anywhere else is indeed exactly my exp. Not here say, or some other’s arguments. I don’t make up any of this stuff Chris.<br />

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My thoughts on how to improve a thing, or conduct business are my own… many if not all are as well philosophies I’ve used in former businesses. All of which were quite profitable.<br />

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Each note on how to improve the experience for new users of JR MC are too quite viable… yet remain unaddressed.<br />

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Bare in mind too, I’ve paid for subscriptions to MC 12, 14, AND NOW 15…. PLEASE TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.<br />

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Just as you are on the opposite side of the fence from me here on my posts for and against JR MC… I could not have differened from your take on the M2Tech Hiface gizmo any more so. In fact I found your article on it near unbelieveable…. Yet I’d not discount it was your experience…. The why of it confounds me to this day. <br />

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But OK… so what… ??<br />

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Everyone has their own take on this or that… and how to make it better ..use it or not… <br />

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Truth be told, on MY XP machines Fubar is superior to the playback of JR MC IMHO.<br />

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With Vista things begin to change somewhat and it’s a toss up then…. With the Hiface unit.<br />

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I’ve just bought a Lynx AES 16E and am awaiting its arrival. I also plan on upgrading one machine to Win 7… from XP pro. <br />

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If MC sounds best to me It will get use. If not It won’t… as you said… that are other options out there.<br />

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The amazing part for me mostly on JR MC iterations is how scant the support level is, how quickly other versions have erupted… and thereafter been left to lay fallow in some non active forum pages as older versions are apt to be ignored outright.<br />

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Afgain.. this is merely my own exp and observations…. But then, I don’t consider myself an insider there or anywhere for that matter… so it well may be other’s do not have my exp.<br />

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I don’t idol worship, or maintain myself in any clique, or club. I say what I say based on my own interactions with this or that, this person or that one. <br />

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Plain and simple… MC could be made better and easier to operate with just a few additions… as I and other’s have mentioned herein.<br />

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A couple more pages describing the power and utility of the program during install would be of immense help.<br />

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Quite probably, your own article here might not have even been required for the user end of things… though the advertising end of things has had it’s own way.<br />

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Let’s see then… just how much JR listens to their continuing or ongoing users who keep buying their newer versions…. … AND lets also see if JR Mc will reassess their product as the statements here about it’s disfunction, setup, installation quirks, aren’t only beging displayed on the pages of CA.<br />

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Additionally, other players are becoming simpler to operate, and perform better… and some of them are FREE. or less costly.<br />

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Rationalization, justification, and objectivity are all subjectively tendered to satisfy whatever ends one see’s as a priority..<br />

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Activity or inactivity will tell just what is the focus and intent of any enterprise… eventually.<br />

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If no attempts are made to stabilize or render an existing thing simpler and less involving to own and operate… then the intent of it’s authors is plainly and perhaps, painfully, evident.<br />

Hi,<br />

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I for one am being a bit annoyed by this auto-import feature too. Agreed it takes some time to realize it, but you can turn it off at installation time.<br />

Not being very confident, whatever the player, I decided to give access to my music files in read-only for all players to be used. This has been a winning combination for me so far.<br />

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Apart from this specific feature, I have always found great support from JR team with my enhancements and bugs requests so far. Stating that because people are posting here, their approach is not sufficient, is a bit unfair. You can't force people into following the suggested path for their issues to be taken into account.<br />

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As a software architect I might belong to the other side of the fence, but I know how hard it is to promote enhancements, fix bugs, and still provide with full documentation, that users always ask for but never read in the end. I think they are getting in touch with "Agility" in a way that is very fine with me.<br />

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As Chris has mentionned nothing is perfect in this world.<br />

I guess you, Blindjim, would be really pissed off by my many k€ dac that takes 6s to resynchronize on a new sample rate.<br />

Unless JR guys add a new parameter to wait for the dac to be ready, which they did ! An improvement I am glad to pay 50$ for <br />

<br />

Elp<br />

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> A dedicated version for audio and one..<br />

> ...for video does seem a better path to proceed down than the<br />

> one they have chosen.<br />

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Since they are doing the work, they get to make the decisions. Quit griping and write your own software.<br />

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> Preventing lockups too when traversing file types is as well<br />

> a thing to look into.<br />

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Certainly not a problem I've ever had.<br />

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> I can't recall how many times I've used the Windows 3 finger<br />

> salute ... control > Alt > Delete... to quit JR MC... from<br />

> version 12 to and thru 15.... and on 4 different computers<br />

> and 2 operating systems!!<br />

<br />

I started with MC 11 too. I remember when you started posting angry tirades on the Audiogon forum about MC 11. I provided some information to get you past your problems (as did other people) and you seemed to quiet down. You posts there and on other forums mentioned JRMC as the program you used.<br />

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If you have really had so much trouble with JRMC, why are you still using it? There are hundreds of choices for the Windows environment; you might be able to find one you like.<br />

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MC 11 did crash occasionally. It just politely says that it needs to exit and does. I never lost any data. I just started MC again and continued. Every version since has been more robust.<br />

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There have been very few times when I had to end the program with a Ctrl-Alt_Del action.<br />

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> it's in the bloated MC software...<br />

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I've compared MC versions from 11 through 15 to Foobar 2000 for CPU usage and for memory usage. To do it right, you need to watch how memory use changes as the program using a tool like Task manager.<br />

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I run MC on several PCs including a PC 1.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 2 Gbytes of Ram and a 5400 RPM hard drive for music file storage. CPU use rarely gets above 1% for the entire PC playing 16/44.1 Flac files. I never hear audio glitches. MC 15 runs fine on a 1.2 GHZ CULV laptop with Windows 7.<br />

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> What now tickles me is the notes Jim puts in on or about Unknown<br />

> bewildering instances of malfunctioning.<br />

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If you actually read that thread, you would see that Jim has links to threads where actual problems were discussed and fixed.<br />

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Problems with interference from anti-virus software and device drivers for video cards are real. Real the thread that you disparaged and you might learn something.<br />

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> "Avoid doing this... or that..." statements.<br />

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I always tell people who ask for advice that you need to learn a bit about concepts and choices, make some decisions and then do some work (for example, ripping CDs.)<br />

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Buying expensive gear before you have gone through these steps may well wasts your money and your time. Get some understanding, make good choices and things will go smoothly.<br />

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Picking a soundcard or USB or Firewire audio output device is a key decision. Pick one with well written drivers and you'll have a more pleasant experience. Pick a decice that let's the play software change the output sample rate and size and <br />

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PC based audio playback may be too complicated for some people.<br />

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> Illuminating the insstall process... just adding in screen shots of<br />

> working viable MC configs on this feature or that<br />

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Sure, more documentation would be great.<br />

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I provided step by step instructions in response to specific questions on this forum and on the J. River forum. Plenty of other people are willing to give advice too.<br />

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If you have a specific problem, you might ask a question rather than launching a rant about how awful the software is.<br />

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> ... sliming down or completely disjoining an upscale audio player<br />

> from it's TV, DVD, and Theater facets all seem erstwhile ventures<br />

> that would make life easier and less frustrating for everyone<br />

> concerend<br />

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Has your life been blighted by the fact that JRMC contains support for playing videos and displaying images?<br />

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There is a JRMC option to Start in the last Location. Check that and you start in the audio view of your choice. You can control what file types are imported as well. I can go for months without remembering that MC even has<br />

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> I'll not even venture into the remote control or networked areas<br />

> of it.<br />

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Again, why are you continuing to use this software if you find it to be so flawed? Find something that you like better.<br />

<br />

Bill<br />

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...to me whatever JR MC does or does not do in order to remedy glaring, continuing, faults, or inadequacies which could make it a better construct. I only pointed out my own exp.<br />

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<br />

Elprior<br />

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I’ve been on board with the notion the world and it’s contents aren’t perfect for some time now. It doesn’t take great eyesight to see obvious shortcomings and those which get handed down to the later generations either.<br />

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All one has to do is pay attention and of course, keep on buying the various upgrades… as one wishes and the overt issues stand out and glow in the dark.<br />

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Currently it takes about 4-6 seconds for my MC 15 to merely switch from protected file types to those which are not protected…. So I’ve gotten used to delays in MC handling of differing file types.<br />

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The only fix I’ve come up with is to make playlists of EITHER sort but never of them both.<br />

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Now and then it freezes up altogether during such events… moving from one protected sort to one non protected sort… all of which BTW… are iTunes files.<br />

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I know nothing of this other switching from one sampling rate to some other rate delay, aspect you now say the MC folks want $50 for fixing. <br />

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Most of the delays and hangs MC provides me with are in conjunction with moving from one non protected file type to one which is protected. I’ve seen no issues with changes in bit or sampling rate differences.<br />

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I dig writing changes in software can take time and energy… a lot perhaps. But I’m talking here about items that are ongoing for 3 years or more now. Probably more actually. Isn’t that enough time to alter things for the better?<br />

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Chris<br />

Otherwise…<br />

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Should it matter more if Teddy Roosevelt rose up from the grave and said he had a idea his decision to protect various lands in the U.S.A. and provide them to the public as National Parks was bad, for change to take place therein?<br />

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What if Bob Homegrown stood up and said exactly the same thing.<br />

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What if Bob H. said it first?<br />

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Should it matter then, who says the house is on fire, or should thihngs get investigated when anyone says, “I smell smoke!” <br />

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What if many people say they smell smoke, but one notable person says otherwise? What course of action should be taken then…. If any? Which has more bearing, the noteworthy one or the multitudes.<br />

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…and btw… who’s keeping the count here… or is it who counts instead?<br />

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I feel there is no replacement for experience (s), as well, I believe in a consensous of opinion rather than any singular one, most of the time. I also feel obvious shortcomings should always be atop the list of things to do for designers…. And as I have said for the last 30 or 40 years or so now… actions speak volumes while good intentions sit silently and eventually they are forgotten.<br />

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Oldlistener<br />

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Your age is showing or your memory is waning. The help you offered me then simply wasn’t sufficiently clear for me to follow… and I asked a few times thereafter for more insight… but got nothing.<br />

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My first use of JRiver was version 12.<br />

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My consternation of some of it’s workings was placed in more than one site as no help came to me at the JR MC 12 forum after several postings and nearly a week of waiting!<br />

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I absolutely do say I use JRiver as a player for my hard drive based audio system… BUT it is only ONE of them… Fubar too has it’s advantages over JR MC in sound quality alone.<br />

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Sound quality is the why I persist with MC, and it’s organization.<br />

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Naturally if you do not experience such things as have I with your setup… I must be lying.<br />

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Makes sense to me! That’s it. How did I miss that! It’s me. All along it’s merely me… not the software…. But then wait… iTunes never does that… Windows Media Player never froze up either… as Winamp hasn’t frozen… nor has Fubar 2K… or even VLC! <br />

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I’ve tried hard to keep an open mind here… tried using various pc’s, OS… increased RAM.. even bought a speedier and more robust pc… same results each time.. <br />

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Now I’m about to move into the Win 7 OS, and a reputedly better sound card so as to attempt to stabilize MC and use it as the go to player in my system… I suspect, given my past exp… I’m going to be disappointed… but we’ll see.<br />

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I’m both idealistic and optimistic as a rule, but I’m also honest and perhaps too outspoken for some. But that’s oK I am a honorably discharged vet, and registered voter… so I’m able to say my mind so long as it’s not injurious to someone else…. Or false.<br />

> Your age is showing or your memory is waning.<br />

> The help you offered me then simply wasn’t sufficiently<br />

> clear for me to follow… and I asked a few times thereafter<br />

> for more insight… but got nothing.<br />

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Oh, I remember you quite well. The tone of your rants was exactly the same. You posted all sorts of misinformation back then and I posted corrections. I agree that you haven't made much progress.<br />

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----<br />

I tried a few tests based on statements in your posts and found that MC 15 did hang when I played a Flac file and then an MP4a file. I have reported that result on the J. River beta forum.<br />

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In my bug report, I provided a specified description of what I did and the incorrect result.<br />

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J. River made a decision not to include support for Apple's private file formats. Right now, they aren't a good choice if you are going to use JRMC. We'll see if things improve.<br />

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> Naturally if you do not experience such things as have I<br />

> with your setup… I must be lying.<br />

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If you had posted a description of a specific sequence of actions and the incorrect program behavior that resulted, your problem could be understood and probably fixed.<br />

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You posted all sorts of very generalized claims about JRMC. Those generalized claims just aren't true.<br />

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So what do you want to do? Describe your specific problem on the J. River forum and get it fixed? Or have more fun posting endless rants full of general misinformation?<br />

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Bill<br />

One thing that's a little wonky, which was mentioned on Interact maybe almost a year ago, is when connected to your Library Server, the AI still starts running, even though most functions are disabled for local media when connected (i.e. transcoding, audio analysis, etc.) I used to post over there a lot, and contribute, it does work and things like Tabs and WASAPI Event Style were positive outcomes often due to the persistence of one person who could finally get others to notice the thread and realize they had the same problem. But it also very difficult for some of these things to get noticed. Event Style almost didn't happen; JH pushes back which is understandable, you had better be able to back your problem with evidence as you have to reproduce it with other users. The beauty of it is you can do some searches and say hey JH, I'm not nuts, look...the system makes sense...BUT it gets tiring. I think they should do a bi-annual review where there are actual votes taken for new features, old bugs, and direction. Too often, people have the same issue or need, but it just seems to get lost in the shuffle, new features are introduced, then so are new bugs, then those get reported and focused on, and so it goes.

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... but then one can thereafter, rave on that they were of great assistance to someone else.<br />

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I did not wish to mention this but as Oldlistner is far from the truth of things here… I must….<br />

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Oldlisnter…. your links were not a solution. So you were of no real help[. Nor did you follow up upon my reply asking for some other input... and now you say you were helpful?<br />

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If someone were drowning, I suspect you might throw them a map of Disney World, huh? Super. Thanks much.<br />

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When the only tool in the box is a hammer everything looks like a nail.... Old listener has misread me from the very start and plies his own trade here... discounting anything he doesn't understand. By his own admission jr mc MAY OR MAY NOT LOOK INTO bug reports.<br />

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Old listner even supports here what I’ve said as the truth about JR MC hanging up …. what else does anyone want to support my statements as being valid?<br />

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True enough… one solution many subscribe to is to be intimidated and remain silent… putting up with whatever misfortune comes their way rather than to appear stupid, ifnorant, or uneducated about some new unknown portion of some new unknown item, by opening their mouth and saying what’s on their mind (s). … well good for them.<br />

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Given I got such little and misdirected aid from the MC forum... I feel it as useless to send along any instances of malfunctions..., feeling they would meet the same end. <br />

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Nothing being shared here is earth shattering, will heal the sick and suffering, or prevent them from obtaining it. so there’s not a reason in the world I can think of which says anyone should be discourteous to someone else.<br />

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It makes no difference how I am percieved anywhere... I advocate JRiver make changes... I also advocate it's use. How can it be seen then that I've railed against JRiver, save for it's obvious shortcomings!<br />

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Were I running down or ranting negatively on any product I’d say things quite differently I assure you. Shy, I’m not.<br />

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Again… actions speak loudest… either JRiver can address these issues or they can not… time will tell. Perhaps too these issues are beyond the scope of humankinds own abilities to overcome, re-write, re-arrange or remedy. <br />

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When talking about a thing becomes more than a discussion wherein folks are supposed to agree to disagree, then there’s some other motive in play.<br />

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I’ve made it quite clear I’d wish for some changes in JR MC, AND avow it’s use as a worthy product in nearly the same breath. I’ll not even submit the offline emails I receive which support my notes here or elsewhere as they could have joined in here too but opt not too for some reason of their own. <br />

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I DO USE jr mc AND MOST OF THE TIME IT WORKS FINE ENOUGH. I will say that for the very last time for the record too. BUT THERE IS INDEED A LEARNING CURVE AND SIMPLE IT AIN’T, NEITHER IS IT FLAWLESS..<br />

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if my messages for re-examining it or some outright changes, are seen as otherwise… then let us not kill the messenger.<br />

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AS for the nothing is perfect idea… Well OK! Let’s steer clear of ever approaching perfection then in anything we generate by our own hands and live with what ever lesser items we throw together. That premise says then, be ok with whatever comes your way as we must remember… nothing is perfect… so why try too terribly hard?<br />

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Regardless the troubles people have with JR and they are having them, that is obvious. The forums and online sites are full enough to support that claim, another look at the product is definitely in order. Almost to a person, we all have agreed on that one point.<br />

<br />

So… we’ll see if that happens and our answer will reveal itself in time one way or another.<br />

Hi Blindjim,<br />

<br />

<i><br />

I know nothing of this other switching from one sampling rate to some other rate delay, aspect you now say the MC folks want $50 for fixing.<br />

</i><br />

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Ouch, my english must really be poor, I was actually trying to make a compliment <br />

<br />

My dac way of switching from one sample rate to another has nothing to do with JR MC. I takes 6s for the hardware part to do so.<br />

<br />

What JR team did, is add a new feature that sends a blank signal (configurable) when changing sample rate, so that my dac can cope with it, and I'm not loosing precious musical seconds during the process.<br />

<br />

Elp

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Sorry I misunderstood before. Thanks... that is special.<br />

<br />

Having installed the latest update to ver 15.169 I could detect no lags or drop outs when bouncing from one file type to a protected (iTunes) type, nor were there stalls, delays, or drop outs when moving off one type to a dissimilar type of lossless file... or in any other combination I could think to try. This was evident on half of my pc's ... one vista... one XP Pro. both with dissimilar outputs but using the exact same NAS bank.<br />

<br />

Hopefully this will continue.... I did notice however the same sluggishness and intermittant freeze up that emmulate what iTunes used to do in previous itterations. I was able to mitigate that situation somewhat by minimizing the app and then restoring it... though it took some time before it settled down and became quite fluid again.<br />

<br />

Blindjim, I've had many of the same problems, experiences and thoughts about them that you've had.<br />

<br />

A little back ground. I started with J River about a year ago with their free music only version. Last spring I switched to the paid for version and have been getting their updates. <br />

<br />

As opposed to you, I'm very experienced re computers, software etc. I've worked with computers as a consultant, technician and teacher for over 25 years. I mention this, because even with all that knowledge I find it a daunting task to use MC to its fullest capacity, (or even close to it). It would take way much more time than I want to spend, and I'm just talking the audio side with a bit of video.<br />

<br />

I have three main problems with MC. The start up stuff as I mentioned earlier in a reply to bitrate. The random lockups and the like that you mentioned. And the forum/help.<br />

<br />

I'll focus on the forum/help. I should have taken it as a warning sign, when I asked several times on the forum what the differences, if any, there were between MJ Jukebox (audio only free prog) in terms of audio implementation/features and MC. I never got a response. I was trying to decide whether to spring for MC.<br />

<br />

I sprang. I asked a question or two and made some comments about something or other and got very little if any response ever. I don't remember for sure now, but I was definitely dissatisfied.<br />

<br />

At that point I started what turned into a campaign to get a manual for MC. I find it totally unsatisfying to use their ill kept wiki, particularly just starting out. By the way a manual would solve the start up issues i.e. "Read this first before you install."<br />

<br />

They were totally unresponsive to that thought even though I had several supporters in the forum. They (the admin and a few heavy posters) were actually mildly nasty, dismissive, and one was even deceitful. I offered to put together a manual (gratis) by gleaning info from everywhere, organizing it, making it sequential with a new user section and making it printable, and useable online with links to the wiki for verification and possible new info.<br />

<br />

They not only did not support this idea, their stock answer was something very much like "We think the wiki is the future," they locked my threads so that I couldn't keep on about the subject (I had actually come up with a rudimentary first version when they must have decided I was going too far).<br />

<br />

Now does this sound like a company that wants to help its customers? Their forum is often unresponsive, they're anti-manual and they're wiki is mediocre at best, and not much good if you don't know what you're looking for. <br />

<br />

By the way a forum that is really helpful and a complete contrast is the XXhiend forum. XX doesn't have a manual either, but Peter pretty much writes out a manual every time you have a problem usually within hours, if it doesn't happen to be midnight in Europe. His English isn't too good, so it can take a few reads or a few messages, but they/he do really want to help you and to fix things. <br />

<br />

By the way, I did put together a fairly decent manual (given that I received no help) and even converted it to work on my Kindle, which is pretty cool If I do say so. Unfortunately much of the more complicated info from the wiki is so poorly written and dated that even having it in book form doesn't clear it up.<br />

<br />

Chris <br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

Hi Chris and Blindjim,<br />

<br />

I understand your frustrations.<br />

<br />

I too have had trouble using the features of J Rivers 14 but I felt it was due to my limited computer knowledge.<br />

<br />

I started off in computer audio using iTunes on a PC and was looking for a bit perfect player and chose J Rivers after reading Chris's (forum founder) article.<br />

<br />

The lack of a manual is a real pain and it took me forever to work out how to get bit perfect using ALAC files with a plug in and Quicktime so in the end I just converted all my 16/44.1 CD files that I ripped in ALAC to AIFF using iTunes.<br />

<br />

** J River plays AIFF files as native files (no plug in required)<br />

<br />

I confirmed the process was bit perfect by checking the ALAC files and AIFF files against each other with db poweramp.<br />

<br />

These files and my 24bit FLAC from Society of Sound sound stunning when played using the WASAPI output together with windows's exclusive mode. I am confident it is playing bit perfect.<br />

<br />

My problem is at the moment only about 70% of my artwork is visible in J Rivers although all are visible in iTunes. I have about 900 cds.<br />

<br />

Any ideas what I have done wrong? Any chance Chris of posting a link to your manual?<br />

<br />

Thanks in advance,<br />

<br />

Ajax<br />

<br />

PS Don't be turned off from critising or questioning manufacturers. If it done in a thoughtful and constructive manner (without agro) you are actually giving them the gift of your time to help improve their product. If they are professional in their approach they will put their egos to one side and consider whether your opinions have merit.<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

If you go to HELP>WIKI…. OR THIS url..<br />

<br />

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Main_Page<br />

<br />

IN THE jr mc help TAB… ON THE top left hand side and on the RIGHT PANE OF THIS PAGE Are LINKs CALLED “Media Center Manual.”<br />

<br />

The resultant pages list topics a plenty.<br />

<br />

My problem in there is comprehending the language or terminology being used at times. More screen shots in there wouldn’t hurt a thing either.<br />

<br />

Suffice it to say here, from my perspective and apparently other’s too, a clearer window to the installation, setup, and management of the player should see some revision… from the perspective of the uninitiated ‘end user’s’ or flat out newbies, position. <br />

<br />

…at the very least, some disclaimer about the idiosyncratic installation quirks which can be defeated AFTER installation has been accomplished ought be prominately displayed, as well as some note about spending a goodly amount of time reading thru the HELP content for best results..<br />

<br />

I once bought a S&W Model 29 revolver. .357 caliber. The owners manual was a couple of pages long. My Maytag Dishwasher manual even in pdf is a short novel, by comparison. The former has only two settings, the latter has 10. Both can be used with or without looking into the documentation.<br />

<br />

My Onkyo TXSR 805 receiver has well over 100 pages and it’s manual does need to be looked into if one wishes to operate it successfully, and has never operated or setup a HDMI version receiver of late.<br />

<br />

HT receivers are made about as intuitively as are any other mass media devices these days, but still, further knowledge is required to fully exploit some of the feature sets contained within them…. All of which have been based on previous basic versions carrying many similarities’ from previous models thru todays’ latest and greatest sorts. <br />

<br />

Consequently some basic prior exp becomes a water shed of sorts with these newest ipod & networking compatible home entertainment appliances.<br />

<br />

It’s not nearly so simple with most media players… all of which have their own gems hidden here and there throughout and about the apps various menus. The fascinating & involving depth and breadth of Media Center however, has such a plethora or multitudinous assortment of affectations, it’s pedestrian indoctrination can result in a situation which is both overwhelming and daunting.<br />

<br />

Streamlining, simplifying, elaborating by adding more pages/steps into the install, are all seemingly viable concepts which ought to be looked into… especially if the JR MC client base for cyber media, or digital media base is to grow as rapidly as is the current growth of the buying publics use and interaction with home networking, and entertainment playback content and if it wishes to become the superior one stop shopping arrangement for home entertainment it strives for and claims to be.<br />

<br />

One out of 3 of my usual PCs has experienced it’s routine lock up yet again, following the update of MC 15, to ver # 15.159. No realy identifying situation… or set of circumstances this time, it opened and then refused to engage file playback when requested. BTW… I’ve uninstalled my AVG antivirus… and enabled specifically all my network devices via my firewall… and have no Spyware apps running.<br />

<br />

Hopefully the link to the manual may help.. sorry if its found to be redundant.<br />

Just to respond to comments above concerning a manual vs a wiki....<br />

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If you think the wiki is inadequate, please consider adopting a page and edit it to your liking.<br />

<br />

Here is a list of Wiki topics you might want to bookmark:<br />

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Special:Allpages<br />

<br />

Judging from the statistics page on our J. River Wiki, it does get used:<br />

<br />

"There have been a total of 2,290,642 page views, and 5,800 page edits since the wiki was setup. That comes to 2.51 average edits per page, and 394.94 views per edit."<br />

<br />

Thanks very much to those who have contributed topics or edits.<br />

<br />

<br />

I find it interesting and telling that J River has responded to messages at least three times in the last few days, messages that were about them, but not asked of them, in a forum that is not theirs, and yet they did not respond to several questions I posted in their very own forum. Where exactly are their priorities, it's pretty clear.<br />

<br />

Someone said earlier that maybe J River doesn't get back to people on their forum because there are so many questions that many get lost in the confusion. Well if that's the case, they might consider sticking to their own forum more instead of having their ears to the web listening for negatives about them.<br />

<br />

Obviously they're trying to defend their product. However, their smug and arrogant attitude will not look good to potential customers who just happen across this thread. I still can't believe how they just pooh poohed and actually denied bitrate's problem (telling him he didn't spend hours fixing it--fortunately he had a back up of the files MC had changed), instead of apologizing and at least saying they'd look into it. And it's so simple to fix. I'll reiterate in case they missed it the first time.<br />

<br />

The Fix: At the first run of MC a choice pops up, "Would you like to scan your system for Media?" followed by: Yes, No, Don't show this message again and a more info choice that takes you to the help file and tells you about all your scan options. And if you really want to keep the timer thing (I don't know why you would) make it an option. How simple and unintrusive is that? <br />

<br />

As to the wiki. The information aside, the real problem is its organization of which there is very little (when you're new to a program you don't know where to start and what to look up, you just need to browse and get a feel). The fact that many newbies don't know much about wikis and how to use them doesn't help either. <br />

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And as usual J River didn't think through it's response. Just write for the wiki they say. <br />

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First of all not every one can write clearly, an understatement to be sure, and not everyone is conversant in best ways (or any ways for that matter) of adding to wikis, as is quite evident in this case. Then, if you can, you still need to be an expert in your subject to do so. Now how do you become an expert, well there are two obvious ways, by carefully reading and understanding good info--not gonna happen here because there isn't any and if there were... well you get it, right J. River? Or because you've learned it all by yourself, because either you're exceedingly bright re this sort of stuff, or you've spent lots of time experimenting, succeeding and failing, the whole bit. <br />

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And now out of the natural goodness of your heart and because you have even more time, your going to write it all up, because you also happen to be a good technical writer. And hey you paid $50 for MC and you've got to pay for an upgrade every year if you want to stay current, so of course you should contribute on all fronts, it's only fair. Why should those who are paid to do this, do this? Well they'd really love to, but "wikis are the future," so...<br />

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Ajax, I can send you a copy of the manual (if I can find it--as I said I kindlized mine) if you pm me. Just remember I never completely updated/refined it because they (J River) locked my threads.<br />

<br />

I'm assuming there's a pm option somewhere, if not we'll have to figure out another way to get it to you.<br />

<br />

Chris<br />

<br />

J River says<br />

"Judging from the statistics page on our J. River Wiki, it does get used:<br />

<br />

"There have been a total of 2,290,642 page views, and 5,800 page edits since the wiki was setup. That comes to 2.51 average edits per page, and 394.94 views per edit."<br />

-------------<br />

Well you don't say. What other choice do they have exactly?<br />

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I might read those stats as saying MC is so complex and users are desperate for info because the forum doesn't do it for them, so their only other choice is the wiki, since there's no manual. <br />

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Stats don't lie! (they just don't tell the truth). <br />

<br />

I could give you more interpretations, by why bother, that one serves me well.<br />

<br />

Chris

Crisnee,<br />

You have made your point many times. When you made it on our forum, I did reply. Six times.<br />

<br />

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58234.0<br />

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If you want better documentation, and you're willing to help, the wiki is our chosen method.<br />

<br />

I won't hold my breath.<br />

<br />

Jim<br />

J River said:<br />

"You have made your point many times. When you made it on our forum, I did reply. Six times."<br />

<br />

I'm really not writing to you Jim, if I wanted to do that I'd go back to your forum. And by the by, it wasn't my main point or even a real point at all, as you well know, but just a response to things being said here. I put that baby to bed long ago and its only been half wakened by this thread. <br />

<br />

But since I seem to have your attention, want it or not, and admittedly on the less important topic to me at the moment, maybe you'll answer me now. Why wouldn't you condone or accept a free manual, that wasn't meant to supersede the wiki, but rather to coexist with and enhance it? You never gave me an answer back in the day, other than your stock answer which I cited in an earlier post.<br />

<br />

Chris

I have had a hate/love relationship with J. River (Jim Hillegass) over the years. Don't get me wrong, I have never met the man. This has been strictly an Internet based read/write thing. The 'squigly things' we put into forum posting boxes. I confess to being born with hubris. I take pride in my words. Their order and even mis-spellings. I view the forum posting box, as MY SPACE. Except for threats of violence and perhaps pornography. I feel empowered by such self-expression, and the opportunity to read such empowerments used by others. Yes, there are the screen agreement check boxes, which state that (I guess) you have sold your inherent copyright in what you post on a forum, but I believe that such adhesion contracts could be ruled invalid. Regardless of the legalities, I believe that, at their best, forum owners should delete a post in its entirety, rather than changing words without attribution of posters.<br />

<br />

I do NOT hate J. River, and wish them well.<br />

Furthermore, it is clear that Mr. Hillegass has 'matured' over the years.<br />

In the beginning, he regularly exhibited the 'Mike Tyson response'. That is, if he was losing the argument/fight, he would bite off the ear of his 'opponent', meaning change their words, often without attribution. In fact I posted that analogy on their forum, resulting in its deletion and locking of the thread. I didn't, and don't, like forums that do that. Anyone can chose NOT to read a post they do not like. I believe Mr. Hillegas fights more fairly now. I think he came from the 'Cliff Notes for Dummies' heritage. His father was Cliff Hillegass whose publishing saved my life a few time in college! However Jim probably grew up trained as an editor, and perhaps too easily messes with the words of posters on his Interact forum. I think I was the first to nickname the forum INTERCEPT (sic). lol <br />

<br />

J. River is a good company which probably struggles to survive, and it should survive. It has good people, especially Matthew Ashland (the .ape format guy) have produced valuable ideas and implementations thereof. There can be a long distance between idea an implementation. Its important NOT to mess with the words of idea posters.<br />

<br />

Many years ago I was proud to have created (at least to me) the term "digital object" in the sense of a new object that violated the single time/space law of physics, as well as encourage monetizing these 'digital objects' in a way that leveraged, and did not try to limit the near zero marginal cost to provide for unlimited masters (which is what a bit perfect digital 'copy' (sic) is). Unfortunately my posts on Interact were first mangled, and then (thankfully) deleted.<br />

<br />

Forgive this rant. It underlies my view as to why many have problems with J. River software and practices. I currently use MediaMonkey. I was never able to figure out how to get the J. River product to cause my E-MU 0404 to automatically switch from 192/96/44.1, et. al., when I played consecutive FLAC tracks from such mixed native codings. Also, I never could embrace the idea of paying again for each new release.<br />

<br />

Frankly, I miss being able to post ideas to Interact. I have been banned (I guess for life).<br />

<br />

iq100<br />

Author of: "How to Learn Patience Quickly" and "Perfect Modesty".<br />

crisnee,<br />

Your idea to produce a manual is fine. Please do. But please don't use our forum to enlist helpers for your project. J. River's decision, made several years ago, was to replace the manual by documenting the program on the wiki and the forum. You obviously don't agree with that decision, but please don't undermine our efforts.<br />

<br />

I hope you might also appreciate that it's not possible for J. River to document the world of J. River Media Center. The program, for instance, plays around 100 different formats of media, and each of these might run to several pages. Fortunately, you have the Internet and Google to find information about them.<br />

<br />

I'll retire to our forum now, and let you continue your quest for perfection. <br />

<br />

Jim<br />

J. River wrote>"... don't use our forum to enlist helpers for your project."<br />

<br />

So, it is ok for you to post here and elswhere, in part to attempt recruiting new paying customers, but it is not ok for Chris (crisnee) to post on YOUR forum a brief message to recruit help for his not for profit efforts?<br />

<br />

Before you "retire to our forum", I would like to undersand why you find Chris' attempt for volunteer documenation help so offensive? Is this a matter of contol/Not In My Backyard mentality?

Hi Guys - Whenever certain products are mentioned on the site and I think the manufacturer can add value to the conversation I frequently contact the manufacturer and invite them to join the conversation. Such is the case here. Whether you agree with the manufacturer's provided information or not it's always best to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. We can all still speculate and offer the same opinions we normally would without information provided straight from a manufacturer, but I believe it adds great value for a manufacturer to offer information. <br />

<br />

I felt the need to add this bit of info to the conversation so people don't get the wrong idea that Jim from J River was looking to talk about his product on Computer Audiophile unprovoked. I know a couple people suggested Jim was hear because of ulterior motives (my words) and I want to at least let people know I offered the initial invitation.<br />

<br />

In other news, please remember what this hobby is all about. To me it's about having fun, feeling good, and enjoying music. I always welcome constructive criticism of myself, any comment on the site, or any manufacturer. There comes a point when the criticism is no longer constructive and it's more about frustration, egos, or "winning" the verbal battle. When a conversation reaches this point it's no longer enjoyable for those commenting or reading. We all have plenty of things in our lives that aren't enjoyable and cause headaches. I like to keep this site on the fun side and keep it an enjoyable and helpful read for people. <br />

<br />

I'm not pointing any fingers in this thread. Let's all just step back a bit, take a deep breath, turn the music up, and stay on the reasonable, constructive, and enjoyable side of life :~)

Earlier in this thread I reported that I had submitted a bug report about playing an MP4A file followed by a Flac or WAV file. This was causing MC to hang, requiring it to be killed.<br />

<br />

This bug has been fixed in version 15.0.164. That version or a later one should be available in the MC 15 forum soon.<br />

<br />

I tested 15.0.164 by alternating between MP4A files and a mix of Flac, WAV and OGG files. The MP4A files contained 128 Kbps (lossy) AAC content. I did not test with ALAC content since I don't have any ALAC files.<br />

<br />

Bill<br />

Chris Connaker wrote>"... Let's all just step back a bit, take a deep breath, turn the music up, and stay on the reasonable, constructive, and enjoyable side of life :~)<br />

"<br />

Listening to one of the lesser known Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellinton collaborations, "Azalea"<br />

<br />

/>

/>

<br />

They sound great on BOTH my MediaMonkey and J. River players!<br />

<br />

Although the second youtube URL is a very old acetate rip, there are certain phrases that ring clearer in this version!<br />

<br />

iq100<br />

clear sound and music help make for a better world.