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  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    Windows 7 Audio & J River Media Center 14 Configuration

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/win-7-packaging-JRMC14.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" align="left">Computer audiophiles using Windows 7 based music servers have a plethora of configuration and application choices for music management and playback. A quick look at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_player_software#General">Wikipedia's</a> list of applications, Windows, OS X and otherwise, can overwhelm anyone. Over the years I've tried more operating systems and applications than I can remember. Many of these have show stopping flaws that rule them out as contenders immediately. Applications that can't play certain file formats or all required sample rates don't receive much attention from me. That was the case over one year ago with J river Media Center 13. I tried to play some of the Reference Recordings HRx 24/176.4 material and had nothing but problems. No doubt the problems could have been worked out, but with so many options available elsewhere I didn't see any reason to spend time with the application. Since this initial underwhelming experience J River has released Media Center version 14. In addition many colleagues in the industry have encouraged me to give it another serious look. One colleague even backed up his suggestion with measurements showing JRMC's playback bit transparency. I started to see the light at CES this year and realized it was finally time take another look at J River Media Center as well as time to get serious about Windows 7.

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    In January 2010 at CES I listened to a demo using JRMC 14 and was really pleased with the sound. JRMC was running on a Mac laptop with Boot Camp and Windows 7. I compared the sound to the OS X / iTunes partition on the same laptop and was surprised at how much better I like JRMC in that system. I was finally convinced I needed to take JRMC much more seriously. Shortly after arriving home from Las Vegas I arranged a meeting with the people at J river and started using the application exclusively.

     

    My meeting with Jim Hillegas and Matt Ashland of J river focussed heavily on the audio capabilities of JRMC 14. The application itself can handle video, television, images, podcasts, and music among other things. I elected to concentrate solely on the music playback piece of the application as that's where my main interest lies and that's what Computer Audiophile is all about. After a brief tour of the J river office Matt and Jim lead me to a conference room where a music server with MC 14 was connected to a flat panel display. Jim was operating MC 14 via a standard Microsoft certified infrared remote control and the application was being displayed in Theater View. Right away I was surprised at how nice the interface looked and how available all the options were even though the traditional menus and buttons were absent. For example it was entirely possible to control music playback in several Zones from within Theater View. I expected Jim and Matt to exit Theater View to make changes or to send audio to different Zones, but that was not the case. I usually compare graphical user interfaces with iTunes and Apple's Front Row as they are the industry standard like it or not. The JRMC Theater View was actually easier to navigate than Front Row in at least one critical area. Anyone who has ever attempted to browse a music collection via Front Row has run into the nightmare that is scrolling through a list of hundreds or thousands of artists or albums. JRMC's interface is much better for browsing through an entire collection. It is simple to see a whole screen of album art and advance to the next set of albums.

     

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/01-l.jpg" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-TV"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/01-s.jpg" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="JRMC-W7-TV 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/02-l.jpg" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-TV"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/02-s.jpg" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-TV 02"></a>

     

     

     

     

     

     

    After perusing the application's eye candy it was time to talk about features and audio quality. I began asking questions about the audio playback section and the difference between the available output options. After a couple questions Matt decided to draw a terrific diagram explaining how JR Media Center processes audio. Unfortunately much of the diagram contained J River's intellectual property and I have no desire to hurt the company by releasing any of the information shared with me. That said, I gained great knowledge into the applications inner workings and now understand what many of the options actually do to the digital audio output. More about JRMC configuration and output options will be addressed below. One feature that fascinated me was JRMC's Zone capabilities. In a matter of seconds Matt and Jim were sending audio around the J river office and controlling everything from a single JRMC installation on conference room music server. Creating additional Zones is a piece of cake. These Zones can consist of UPnP/DLNA players, sound cards, or different channels on a single sound card. More about my foray into Zones and sending different tracks to different DACs via a Lynx AES16 card a bit later.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>Windows 7</b>

     

    When configuring JRMC the first time, outputting bit perfect digital audio should be every audiophile's number one concern. Before JRMC can do its thing Windows must be properly configured. There are numerous ways to configure Windows 7. Here is the way I configure my Windows 7 music servers. I prefer to set a built-in or onboard audio device as the default rather than my Lynx card or USB DAC. This eliminates a few sound degrading possibilities right from the start[1]. Once I've "distracted" Windows by sending the default audio signal to a device I have no interest in using, I configure the pertinent audio device(s). I disable all enhancements via the sound device's Properties page >> Enhancement tab. On the Advanced tab I do things a bit different than most people. I set the Default Format to 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality). This setting is only used in Shared Mode as opposed to Exclusive Mode. Shared Mode is not recommended for audiophile sound quality. The reason I set this to 24/48 is so I can easily see if I have misconfigured an audio device or application. If I've misconfigured either of these my DAC will display 48 as the sample rate no matter what sample rate I am actually playing on the music server. It's another easy way to spot misconfiguration and another level of security (state of mind) for bit perfect output. The other Advanced tab configuration options are standard and should be enabled by everyone seeking quality playback. I always make sure the two Exclusive Mode options are checked or ticked for those of you in the U.K. Allowing applications to take exclusive control and giving Exclusive Mode applications priority is a must. The last Windows related settings I check are the volume controls. As long as the device I am using has a hardware volume control I set every level on my computer to maximum, 100%, unity gain, -0 db, full blast, etc... The surfeit of volume controls on a Windows based music server can be annoying and seriously degrade audio performance if not handled correctly.

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/03-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/03-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/04-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/04-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 02"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/05-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/05-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 03"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/06-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/06-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 04"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/07-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/07-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 05"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/08-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-W7-S"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/08-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-W7-S 06"></a>  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <font size="1">[1]The major advantage of this is it eliminates one possible method of sending audio out through all the layers of the Windows operating system inadvertently. If a Lynx card, or any other device, is set as the default Windows audio device it is possible to bounce the audio signal through Windows, inadvertently convert the sample rate, and output a horrifically mangled audio stream without realizing things are misconfigured. The most common way this error occurs is by the user selecting DirectSound or Wave Out as the output mode within an application. These to modes can easily send audio to the default Windows audio device without Exclusive Control.</font>

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>Background Information</b>:

     

    There are two critical pieces users must have in place to achieve the highest sound quality.

    1. Exclusive Mode v. Shared Mode - Windows setting.

    2. WASAPI or ASIO - Playback application setting.

     

     

     

     

    <b>Windows Modes</b>:

     

    The Windows operating system uses what's called Exclusive Mode and Shared Mode when handling digital audio. These two Modes affect how Windows and audio applications communicate with audio devices like USB DACs and sound cards.

     

    <b>Exclusive Mode</b> is somewhat analogous to connecting a DAC directly to an amplifier. Exclusive Mode enables an audio stream to go directly to an audio device bypassing intermediate processing. There is no mixing of audio streams from other applications including Windows sounds. The obsolete KMixer from Windows XP gathers all digital audio streams converting them into one sample rate before outputting the homogenized stream to an audio device. This is similar to how other output methods handle audio with layers upon layers of operating system processing and possible manipulation. Exclusive Mode enables this direct access to the audio device but does not guarantee anything more than than this. It is one critical piece of the bit perfect puzzle. An interesting note about Exclusive Mode - Even though a device may be enabled for Exclusive Mode and an application is accessing the device appropriately some applications relinquish control of the audio device if the application is not the foreground process. According to J River, Media Center 14 only relinquishes control on the Stop command.

     

    <b>Shared Mode</b> can roughly be compared to using a preamplifier between a DAC and amplifier. The preamp is there to handle multiple audio streams (among many other things). When a device operates in Shared Mode audio is sent from the playback application to a global audio engine where any number of effects may be applied before finally reaching the audio device such as a USB DAC or audio card. As explained below output methods such as Wave Out and DirectSound use Shared Mode.

     

     

    <i>Simple Test:</i>

    Users who have a DAC that displays the current sample rate being fed from the music server can run an easy test to determine which Mode is in use. Simply play two tracks with different sample rates. If Exclusive Mode is in use the sample rate on the DAC should change. If Shared Mode is in use the Default Format (sample rate) that is set in the audio device Properties >> Advanced tab will be displayed on the DAC. If the Default Format is set to 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality), playback of a single 16/44.1 track will provide a quick answer to the Exclusive or Shared Mode question as well.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>Application Audio Output Modes</b>:

     

     

    This is the second critical piece of the bit perfect puzzle. Several playback application configuration options for outputting digital audio are available. The output modes listed below are how a playback application handles digital audio. The combination of hardware and software dictates what modes are available. For example, not all audio devices support standard ASIO output and not all playback applications support WASAPI output.

     

     

     

    <b>ASIO</b> - Audio Stream Input/Output protocol was developed by the German hardware and software company named Steinberg Gmbh (Yamaha subsidiary). ASIO is a common method of sending audio from a playback application directly to an audio device such as a Lynx, RME, or ASUS audio card. ASIO is a protocol for low latency high quality digital audio. Manufacturers use the ASIO protocol to develop drivers enabling applications to output this low latency audio directly to the manufacture's cards. ASIO drivers achieve low latency through bypassing layers of the Windows operating system. (ASIO drivers are one method of bypassing the Windows KMixer on XP. Bypassing KMixer enables a bit perfect audio signal to reach the audio card.)

     

     

     

    <b>ASIO4All</b> - Is a universal ASIO driver for Windows that enables almost any playback application to send digital audio directly to an audio device such as a USB DAC. ASIO4ALL is most common consumer audio systems where professional sound cards such as a Lynx and RME are not in use. These cards come with working ASIO drivers from the manufacturer.

     

     

     

    <b>WASAPI</b> - Windows Audio Session API is similar to ASIO in that it enables audio to be sent directly to a sound device. Some refer to WASAPI as Microsoft's answer to ASIO. WASAPI first appeared in Windows Vista and remains part of Windows 7. WASAPI by itself is only a tool that software companies can use to enhance audio playback applications. Some applications do not use WASAPI. Currently J River Media Center, Foobar2000, and XX High End use WASAPI to send audio directly to the sound device. WASAPI enables these applications to take exclusive control over an audio device like a USB DAC or Lynx audio card as long as Windows is properly configured to allow Exclusive control of the device.

     

     

     

    <b>DirectSound</b> & <b>Wave Out</b> - DirectSound and Wave Out are additional methods of sending digital audio output to a sound card or device such as a USB DAC. Neither of these methods currently bypass Windows Vista / Windows 7 mixers or the multiple layers of the Windows operating system. Severely degraded sound is possible using either DirectSound or Wave Out. That said it is possible to achieve bit perfect audio while using either method but it's not advised. Higher latency and difficulty maintaining bit perfect playback are two major drawbacks to using DirectSound or Wave Out.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>J River Media Center 14 Specifics</b>

     

     

    Once the necessities above are addressed JRMC v14 is completely capable of audiophile sound quality. The critical configuration of Media Center v14 is done on the Audio pane of the Options window. Previous versions of MC14 call this pane Playback. Since JRMC 14 natively supports WASAPI it may be easiest to configure the pertinent audio output device using this mode. Enter the JRMC 14 Options window via the Tools menu at the top of the application. To use the classic <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Cribs">MTV Cribs</a> overused cliché, the Options window is "Where all the magic happens." Selecting the Audio or Playback pane from the left side of the Options window exposes the options audiophiles need. Enabling WASAPI is as simple as selecting the chevron to the left of "Output mode:" and clicking Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI). Readers with sounds cards such as the Lynx AES16 and AES16e have the option to use Lynx Studio's ASIO driver instead of WASAPI. The ASIO option will not be available if the audio device does not have its own ASIO drivers, unless, ASIO4ALL is installed. ASIO4ALL is separate software that is discussed later in this article. Selecting the ellipsis button to the left of "Output mode settings..." allows one to specify the audio output device to which WASAPI should direct the audio stream and adjust additional settings including buffers. Selecting the ellipsis button to the left of "DSP & output format..." appears like a wrong move for audiophiles. Fortunately the output format is the only concern on this screen, no DSP required. Some DACs require input of 24 bit digital audio streams. This does not affect bit transparency of the audio. To enable 24 bit output navigate to "Output Format" on the left. Identify the Bitdepth area on the right and select the chevron to the right of "Source bitdepth." The drop down menu will enable selection of 24-bit output and will automatically check the "Output Format" box to enable the option.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/09-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/09-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-1 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/10-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/10-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-1 02"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/11-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/11-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="JRMC-1 03"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/12-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/12-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-1 04"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/13-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/13-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-1 05"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/14-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-1"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/14-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-1 06"></a>  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Other pertinent JRMC options are more user and hardware dependent.

     

    Prebuffering by default is set at 6 seconds. The name is pretty self explanatory. Six seconds of audio are placed in the application's playback buffer before playback starts and throughout the whole track. I've had great luck using Lynx cards with this default setting. One USB DAC I've used required this setting to be at two seconds to achieve stable performance.

     

    Playing files from memory instead of disk is a somewhat new option in JR Media Center. This is different than Prebuffering because because prebuffering places the audio into the application's buffer not just into memory. Playback applications use buffers as part of the playback process. These buffers are held in the computer's memory of course, but in a different way that this option to play the files from memory. Playing files from memory instead of disk is fairly similar to creating a RAM disk and placing audio files on that disk. This memory playback option works by copying complete files to memory before the application starts to process the file as part of its playback operation. Memory playback is differentiated from a "normal" playback mode in that it copies the complete file at once. "Normal" playback mode copies parts of the file into memory as needed by the application. Think of this "normal" playback as a flowing river as opposed to the start/sop waterfall that is memory playback. There is no accepted combination that provides the best sound quality. Depending on one's computer and audio system adjustments to these settings may result in differences from inaudible to playback dropouts to sonic superiority.

     

     

     

    <b>Combinations explained</b>:

     

    Prebuffering Only - Track is placed from the hard drive into JRMC's buffer as part of its playback operation. Configurable in seconds. The buffer exists in memory and can be considered a subset of the total computer memory.

     

    Memory playback Only - Track is completely copied from the hard drive to computer's memory, not an application buffer, before JRMC begins playback operation of the track.

     

    Prebuffering and Memory Playback Combined - Track is first completely copied to computer's memory then the set number of seconds are placed into the applications buffer.

     

     

     

     

    The "Do not play silence (leading or trailing)" option is explained by J River as <i>"If this option is selected, the program skips long portions of silence during playback. This is quite useful for hidden tracks or tracks with a lot of leading or trailing silence. This option may not be a good choice for classical music or other genres that contain long, intentional pauses in the middle of songs."</i> I am not 100% certain but I am pretty confident this option, when enabled, hindered stable playback when using one specific USB DAC I've had in house. Based on the description of this option is really appears benign but my experience has been quite different. It's entirely possible that the DAC in use is more finicky than most at this point in time or a hardware / software combination just isn't clicking. I am not at liberty to discuss the manufacturer or model of the DAC. Readers shouldn't worry about their current DACs as this one is not currently available.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/15-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-2"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/15-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-2 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/16-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-2"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/16-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-2 02"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/17-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="JRMC-2"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/17-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="JRMC-2 03"></a>  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>ASIO4ALL</b>

     

     

     

    I recommend that readers with hardware that doesn't natively support or feature an ASIO driver download and install ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/). ASIO4ALL is selected much the same was as WASAPI output mode is selected. In the same Audio Options window select the chevron to the left of "Output mode:" and click ASIO from the dropdown menu. Within the "Output mode settings..." option >> ASIO Settings window ASIO4ALL v2 should be selected. Users can select "Use large hardware buffers" is needed. I did not have any audio output when this was enabled in combination with a few different USB DACs. The one counter intuitive part of ASIO4ALL configuration is the initial setup. Some users have been able to access ASIO4ALL settings after selecting ASIO4ALL v2 within ASIO settings. I've consistently been able to access the settings by starting playback through JRMC first. This has been necessary for me in order to see the ASIO4ALL configuration window. This is by design and I agree with the reasons for this behavior. ASIO4ALL is not a program it's a driver and does not run on a computer unless specifically called by a playback application. Thus, it's not possible to access the software without playing a track in my case. Once audio playback is started a small green icon with a play symbol should be present in the Windows system tray (near the clock in the lower right corner). Selecting this icon opens the ASIO4ALL settings window. Make sure the proper audio output device is selected. I have not needed to adjust any of the ASIO4ALL specific settings via this software interface. Once the device is selected audio should immediately playback through this device. If not, simply close and reopen JRMC.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/18-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="A4A"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/18-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="A4A 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/19-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="A4A"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/19-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="A4A 02"></a>  

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/20-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="A4A"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/20-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="A4A 03"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/21-l.jpg" class="thickbox" rel="A4A"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/21-s.jpg" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="A4A 04"></a>  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>Zones</b>

     

     

     

    JRMC 14 includes really nice zone capability. Sending audio to different zones throughout one's home used be the territory of custom integrators only and was not an inexpensive endeavor. I don't think JRMC's zone capability is exactly equivalent to some of the more traditional zone systems for whole house audio, but it's a very nice option. Since I am interested in sound quality first and foremost I elected to use separate channels of a Lynx AES16 audio card for zoning. I successfully sent two completely different digital audio streams to two different DACs via channels one and two of the Lynx card. Playing the same track in different zones is nothing new and can be done by many different applications. JRMC goes beyond that capability by sending different tracks simultaneously to different zones or the same track is desired. A limitation of most sound cards including the Lynx AES16 is the inability to play multiple sample rates at the same time. This is because the crystal oscillator can't be in two places at once. I don't see this as a big problem for most people. Once I sent 16/44.1 audio out to two zones I felt required to push the limits if possible. I thought higher sample rates may be an issue for JRMC or my low powered music server. Fortunately playback of two simultaneous 24/176.4 audio streams didn't even make the application or the server sweat. Processor utilization rested comfortably at approximately 15% the whole time.

     

    JRMC's zoning capability may seem like a solution in search of a problem for some readers. Personally I don't have the need for multi-zone listening. However, AES/EBU cables can be run substantial lengths without too much signal degradation. It's completely plausible some readers could run AES/EBU cables up or down levels of their home to take advantage of these zones. One zone for a dedicated two channel system and another zone running to a home theater system would be very nice. Even if multiple zones are used at the same time the capability does enable use of a single music server in a single location. This convenience should not be underestimated.

     

     

    Creating & Configuring Zones - Creating zones is very easy. Under the Player menu on the main JRMC screen is Playback Options >> Zone Manager. Once in the Zone Manager the user selects the Add button, names the Zone, then hits the Configure button. From here the rest of the zone configuration is identical to the audio output options previously discussed.

     

    Using zones through the JRMC interface is just as easy as creating the zones. Clicking on a zone in the left navigation tree enables selection of zone specific music. It's exactly the same as navigating JRMC without multiple zones. The only requirement is selecting the correct zone before selecting the music.

     

     

     

     

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/22-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="zone"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/22-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="zone 01"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/23-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="zone"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/23-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="zone 02"></a>  

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/24-l.png" class="thickbox" rel="zone"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0224/24-s.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 7pt 5pt;" alt="zone 03"></a>  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    <b>Final Features</b>

     

     

     

    JRMC 14 also has a few different remote control options. The remote option I am most enthusiastic about is using a UPnP/DLNA mobile application similar to Apple's Remote app. I use PlugPlayer. It's available via the Apple app store for the iPhone/Touch and the more sizable iPad. In no way is this remote option as good as Apple's Remote for iTunes but it has a ton of potential. I found numerous quirks that frustrated me and required too much time on the JR forum to resolve. I do remain most optimistic however. A much more primitive remote interface can be accessed via the Media Server feature. Enabling the JRMC Media Server allows access to control the application with any web browser such as Safari on an iPhone or Google's Chrome via the Android OS or Windows Explorer via any number of Windows mobile devices. This interface gets the job done but it isn't pretty. It seems like a relic JR has left in v14 if for no other reason than, "Because they can." Like I mentioned earlier in this article JRMC is completely controllable via a number of infrared remotes. This will require a display for navigation but it gives users the traditional CD player feel of hard buttons. One remaining viable remote option is via the <a href="http://melloware.com/products/rivermote/">RiverMote</a> application. the app requires software running on the music server and iPhone. RiverMote can control different zones, but a severe limitation is the inability to control music selection other than what's available via playlists. I believe this limitation is the result of a disagreement between J River and MelloWare. If MelloWare had complete access to JR's APIs complete control wouldn't be a problem. On the other hand is MelloWare used UPnP/DLNA protocol complete control wouldn't be a problem. I certainly don't place blame on either party.

     

     

     

     

    <b>Wrap Up</b>

     

    Windows 7 and J River Media Center are a powerful music server combination. In fact both the operating system and playback application are now on the <a href="http://www.computeraudiophile.com/computer-audiophile-suggested-hardware-list">C.A.S.H. List</a> as a recommended parts of a music server. When the utmost care is taken to configure the operating system and playback application the sonic quality can be truly stunning. Windows 7, more so than OS X, has many different configuration options to output audio but not necessarily bit perfect audio. At first Windows 7 can seem a bit overwhelming even for those with extensive Windows experience. There just isn't such a thing as Plug n' Play when it comes to high end audio and the absolute best sound quality. As long as people's expectations are set at a realistic level the original setup of a Windows 7 music server will not be an issue. Problems arise when people expect the world and quickly cry fowl when something doesn't go as expected. Those who stick to it will get beyond the fact they're even using a computer and will be enjoying great sound with an endless selection of music at their finger tips.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    I apologize for using the word "awful", but I followed Bob's suggestion and downloaded XMPlayer. To make a long story short, I just can't get it to work; is simply won't play any of the .cue playlists, flac files, etc. I have no idea if I need to install a plugin or if this is a compatibility issue. The interface is tiny, busy, reminding me of those old media players like winamp. Am I missing something? On the positive side, I really like the fact that XMPlayer requires no installation and is very small (less than 500KB!). However, if it doesn't work... Thanks for the suggestion anyway, Bob. I guess I won't give up on Foobar and JRiver 16 (in order of preference, headed by Foobar), my favorite applications. <br />

    <br />

    Speaking of JRiver, the only problem I have with it has to do with the fact that it's limited to 10,000 files to work well, as advertised. I have 4 hard drives with approximately 6GB of music in them (organized by style: jazz, classical, rock/pop, varia). Opening JRiver to play music via "devices" takes forever, and the application freezes very often if I try to click on something else on JRiver. Foobar seems to be more stable once you create a playlist for the 4 HDs. But I love the user-friendliness of JRiver. I guess you can't have both...<br />

    <br />

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    Not sure why you are accessing via Devices? I wonder if you are not using the database but simply the Windows file structure; the database is where the speed lies.<br />

    <br />

    I have 123,000 files accessed over LAN to my Addonics 6TB box which is connected to my server via SATA>USB adapter. the client is a by a low-power dual-core ATOM machine and it's snappy on my 1080P display and plays back 192kHz material via WASAPI or ASIO without a hitch while I am switching view schemes. Windows 7 x64.<br />

    <br />

    Sounds like you need to running some ATTO benchmarks, update drivers, and check into what's going on.<br />

    <br />

    I welcome the complexity in J. River's design; it makes things possible that no other software front end is doing these days.

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    Hi Walcascar - Let's discuss the slowness you experience with J River. I'm interested in why it's occurring. I have tons of files local, external, and on a NAS without any issues. <br />

    <br />

    <br />

    Can you explain a bit more about your setup?

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    I've had my ups and downs with media players including J River. But then haven’t we all?<br />

    <br />

    I've yet to find a perfect player. If a player has an enormity of configuration choices, and abilities it stands to reason there will be substantial issues for the lay pc user, which includes me.<br />

    <br />

    I find myself agreeing however with the notes on constant minimal upgrades being cast about as needed steps up and another $20 -$30 required for the next ante. It’s beginning to sound more like the game that has the River namesake in it, Texas Hold ‘em. There’s the Flop, the Turn, and then the ‘River’…. Each segment asking for more money. That’s OK too. one can fold ‘em anytime they want or just not take a seat at the table. The way these upgrades are advertised though borders on well, not nice. Like the switch up from 14 to 15. <br />

    <br />

    My email indicated a great new last chance offer to save $$$ and upgrade to JR 14. so I did. Not six weeks later on JR 15 was released and out. Another email came in saying to act like this was merely shampoo. Wash … rinse… repeat. <br />

    <br />

    When it is known that a forthcoming iteration is about to be released, why then push it’s older and about to be side stepped sibiling? I found that practice just a bit tacky, personally. I can see it from a money making enterprise that is all about making money but it has since changed my perspective on what the writers of this software are all about.<br />

    <br />

    At the very least a note on the very soon to be out step up to ver 15 could have been placed into that coorespondence so a more thoughtful choice could then be made by the end user.<br />

    <br />

    Very likely ver 15 looked more like windows 2000… just a shout out for more revenue.<br />

    <br />

    Fool me once, yada yada…<br />

    <br />

    In the final analysis I’m all about attaining as much quality in the audio reproduction as I can buy… and we do buy it afterall.<br />

    <br />

    I continue to use MC 14 and may, at some point upgrade to the kernel streaming feature in the later edition, but being now more reticent to jump on each iteration has shown me there are indeed other players like Fubar which rivals and IMHO exceeds the final audio reproduction that J River has been so overwhelmingly good at up until recently.<br />

    <br />

    For pure playback it’s not top dog in fact. There are others that do as well or better…. The lure of River is it’s bells and whistles. One stop shopping for some with audio and video playback… but to date, I’ve yet to master it’s big screen playback however.<br />

    <br />

    But then again, nothing is perfect.<br />

    <br />

    I should think ANY player that repeatedly costs one to maintain it in an up to date ownership should at least be a slam dunk operational player. Meaning, install it and have the necessary hardware requirements, and ALL of it’s benefits should become then enabled and easy to use…. But that is apparently not the intention of the J River authors. It should be fully self contained. Not in need of preying on other soft engines for this or that file type playback.<br />

    <br />

    If it does need other engines, then these prerequisite softwares should be well posted as being just such things right up front.<br />

    <br />

    Even support is tempered out to the most current iteration, then leaving those with previous works with lesser aid.<br />

    <br />

    Maybe now, River ought to come out and say this product is a subscription based item, requiring annual payments in order to keep your copy of the program up to date, and or for your OS.<br />

    <br />

    Integrity is an important factor in business. It serves everyone involved in quite positive ways.<br />

    <br />

    Owner manuals and How to’s ought not lag behind a vewer version release either. User guides should coincide with released software… not fall behind them. This also makes me feel a bit awkward when I recommend Media Center to my more computer savvy friends. <br />

    <br />

    For thos less confuser oriented I point them to itunes… as usual.<br />

    <br />

    Completely new versions too should INDEED be entirely new versions… not just bug fixes, and modest improvements. Adding new drivers too, for hardware is part to the practice and shouldn’t be presented as a reason to upgrade.<br />

    <br />

    I do, and did like what J River does…. I simply don’t like how they go about doing their business. I still recommend it to others and I also mention the caveats I’ve pointed out here that I’ve experienced first hand.<br />

    <br />

    I sincerely appreciate the efforts here at CA for allowing us a better insight into configuring River 14 with Win 7.<br />

    <br />

    Hopefully another report on further changes in River’s ver 15 & now apparently ver 16.<br />

    <br />

    I’m not sure Chris can keep up as that makes for 3 different versions so far this year! I’d sure not blame him for not revisiting newer J River MC versions… so long as they keep firing them out at a pop corn like pace.<br />

    <br />

    I must in the end, applaud River too for their ongoing efforts to improve upon the existing product. <br />

    <br />

    I pray they will find a way to improve upon the way their product is being made more user friendly, and how it is offered to the public as well…. And how often it is offered, too.<br />

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    Dear Chris and Hifitubes (et al),<br />

    <br />

    So sorry I haven't replied earlier. I wrote you last week about the problem I have with JRiver 15. Briefly, I believed that JRiver had a 10,000 file limitation. Every time I attempt to "import media", it tells me that I have 10,000 files while the "import media" update is taking place. It does stop once it reaches 10,000. FIY: I have 4 hard drives (not in a NAS) with more than 6TB of music. Just one of these HDs has more then 100,000 files. <br />

    <br />

    As I understand, my only option is to access my files via JRiver's "devices", using a less-than-ideal folder-like structure/process. When I do this, the program behaves super slow, it sometimes freezes, and it I decide to change HD, it takes a long time (1-2 minutes sometimes) to access my music. My computer is relatively new, 64bit Windows 7. FYI: When I use Foobar, all my playlists work just fine and quickly, so this might not be an HD or hardware problem.<br />

    <br />

    Am I doing something wrong? Thanks a bunch! <br />

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    MC imports 10,000 files at a time, and it doesn't stop after doing so. Just let it run.<br />

    <br />

    You could set up autoimport to run in the background and import just the files you want from the directories you want.

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    I was wondering if you are possibly using the free version: J. River Media Jukebox?

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    Hi Chris,<br />

    <br />

    I read your article on JRM 15 and decided to install the 30 day trial version.<br />

    <br />

    Took me some time to get the hang of things with drivers and such as I am not too computer literate. At age 75 computer issues can be a challenge. I'm not complaining as I enjoy the learning experience.<br />

    <br />

    Got everything working so well that my iTunes remains for online radio listening. Couldn't understand how to set up online radio with JR 15 which is unfortunate. It would be nice to have everything in one place when listening to music.<br />

    <br />

    I must say that the improvement in sound quality over iTunes was not expected. However, to me it is a much more musical piece of software than iTunes which sounded rather dry, with midrange and hi-frequency glare. Over the past few months I found that I was no longer listening to music recorded on my laptop. JR 15 has changed all that.<br />

    <br />

    Thank you Chris for your fine article on JR. Without it I would have remained unsatisfied with digitally recorded music.<br />

    <br />

    Bill

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    Hi Bill - Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm very happy you have increased your enjoyment of our wonderful hobby :~)

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    I like the small footprint and no installation routine, just drop the plugin dll directly to the exe folder. That's about it. The Gui is too small, but personal preferences can change things, suppose.<br />

    <br />

    Tried the WASAPI plug in and OLA GJEILO Stone Rose-Michelle, pure piano 24/96, and the piano sounded really terrible. Distorted, too much gain somewhere, all EQ, reverb was off, there is no decay to the notes, very unpleasant to listen to.<br />

    <br />

    Foobar is 2000% better playback in comparision.<br />

    <br />

    XMplay needs a long way to go for audiophile acceptance.

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    i like your article think your info on High End may be out of date. It seems that many users find the latest version sounds superior with direct kernel streaming rather than using WAS <a href="http://www.logo-genie.com/">Custom Logo Design</a>. I may have read that Media Monkey and foobar users also find that direct kernel streaming to sound better. Perhaps Peter St can provide more insight thank you for sharing.<a href="http://www.logo-genie.com/">landing page design</a>

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    The only thing I will say at this moment is that you're putting quite some effort in something which looks like spam to me.<br />

    <br />

    Peter

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    Since I'm here anyway ...<br />

    <br />

    <cite>XMplay needs a long way to go for audiophile acceptance.</cite><br />

    <br />

    XMPlay (the second with WASAPI support) is a typicle example of a player which allows WASAPI/Shared Mode. It *can* do Exclusive, but if it can't find "a" way do do it, it will do Shared. And that is not bit perfect to begin with.<br />

    <br />

    I'm not saying that it is this what you hear though; could be anything.<br />

    <br />

    Peter

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    I recently tried J River Media Center 15, and had a very bad experience. Maybe I can save someone else here from having the same thing happen to them.<br />

    <br />

    Shortly after launching the program for the first time, while I was just beginning to look over the interface, it suddenly started accessing my hard drive like crazy. As I recall, there wasn't any message or explanation for what it was doing, only a changing file count and a Cancel button. I figured that MC was probably just scanning my music files into it's database, but I was really surprised that it did not ask me first if it was OK to do this, or allow me to select what folders I wanted to scan.<br />

    <br />

    Since there was no comforting message telling me that my files would not be altered, I became concerned and started looking through some of my music folders to make sure that nothing was being changed. Everything looked OK at that point, so I decided to let it finish what it was doing.<br />

    <br />

    Some time later the scanning finally stopped and I thought it was done, but after a brief pause the hard drive activity started again. This time I really became concerned as I had no idea what JRMC was doing. Once again I started looking through some of my music folders, but this time I discovered that the date and time on all of the MP3 files in entire folders had been changed to the current date and time! I quickly switched back to MC and hit the Cancel button, but by that time all the files in about 80 folders had been altered.<br />

    <br />

    After surveying the damage, I found that it was mainly MP3 files that had been affected (thank goodness). Apparently, JRMC thought that my tags were inadequate, and proceeded to "fix" all of them without bothering to ask me if I wanted them to be fixed.<br />

    <br />

    I have a somewhat different method of tagging MP3 files than most people probably use. My files only contain ID3v1 tags since these tags hold all of the information that I require, they are compatible with most playback devices, they are smaller than ID3v2 tags, and they are located at the end of the file where they can be easily modified if needed. The only exceptions are any files that have long names which exceed the 30 character limitation. These files also have ID3v2 tags. JRMC had decided to go through all of my MP3 files and add ID3v2 tags to them.<br />

    <br />

    Now I know that most people reading this forum use lossless music files such as FLAC files, and might not be affected by this problem. My CD collection has been ripped to FLAC as well, but many of my albums have also been converted to MP3 which allows me to play them in the car. In addition, I painstakenly recorded a lot of my old LP albums years ago and converted them to MP3s (before I got smart and started using FLAC). The last thing I want is for some program like JRMC to mess up all the hard work I have done on my collection.<br />

    <br />

    FLAC files are not completely immune to this problem either. While most of my FLAC files were unaffected, I did find one file that was altered for some reason. This file was a Studio Master FLAC file that I had downloaded from Linn Records. I'm not sure what caused MC to modify this file.<br />

    <br />

    The point is, if you are particular at all about your music files or tagging system, especially if you have MP3 files, I would avoid J River Media Center like the plague. There is absolutely no excuse for the behavior of this program. No audio program should <b>EVER</b> modify someones prized data files without them requesting it, or at least asking first.

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    Hi Bitrate<br />

    <br />

    "Don't Trust It With Your Files"<br />

    <br />

    I had the same experience and was also really annoyed and taken aback by it. How could such a well thought out program automatically start scanning your disks and... It didn't do damage to my files because I hadn't tagged them well enough to begin with, but if it had I'd not go near that program again either--at least for awhile.<br />

    <br />

    It turns out, it now gives you a few seconds to cancel the scan that's about to happen (I think at one time it didn't, but don't quote me). Unfortunately the message is small and in a corner at the bottom of the screen somewhere. <br />

    <br />

    Having said all that, when your irritation diminishes you might still want to demo the program, because in terms of organization possibilities, views and truly good looking eye candy I haven't seen anything come close, and it's no slouch on the audio side either.<br />

    <br />

    Chris

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    For the last couple of years, MC has had an auto-import feature that starts up after 30 seconds on a new install. During that 30 second period, there is a message that says what it will do. It's in the Action Window in the lower left.<br />

    <br />

    You can turn off auto-import under Tools/Options/Library & Folders.<br />

    <br />

    MC also finds cover art for files that don't have art. If your settings tell MC to "also store in file", the file is re-written, so the date changes.<br />

    <br />

    Please understand that, as the developers, we have to make decisions sometimes. We need to make things easy for casual users, but we also need to please very sophisticated users like yourself. Doing this is only possible if we do some obvious things that casual users might struggle with (import, for example). In these cases, we try to make the options flexible for users like you.<br />

    <br />

    I suggest trying again, after you've explored some of the options available. You can turn off auto-import, analysis, and cover art lookup.<br />

    <br />

    And you can always ask other users here or on our forum.

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    The problem with your solution is that it isn't anywhere near obvious enough, and since your product doesn't come with a manual the user can't even read about what they're about to get into.<br />

    <br />

    New users will not know to look in the "action window," at the bottom left of a new and possibly overwhelming screenshot (to them). They're confronted by a myriad of info, options, etc. They're in the "let me explore, what shall I do first". If they do spot the rather small message in the action window before it expires it will probably just have a few seconds left and the new user will panic a bit and squander those last seconds.<br />

    <br />

    As to setting options, all well and good, but certainly not something a new user, particularly if not well versed in computer usage, will be diving right into.<br />

    <br />

    Why not make it simple and clear. Put the scanning message right in the middle of the screen in a large lovely font. Instead of timing it make it mandatory before going on (Yes I want to scan now, No I don't..., More info, Do not show this again).<br />

    <br />

    As I said, simple and clear and should take about 5 minutes of programing to implement. Considering all the revisions you do, that shouldn't seem to be a problem.<br />

    <br />

    Chris

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    Thanks for your suggestions, Chris. I can only say that these kinds of issues are often a tossup. Making it easier sometimes offends sophisticated users. Making it more explicit and asking more questions can make it more difficult for casual users.<br />

    <br />

    We think we have the mix about right. Of course, you may feel differently.

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    <br />

    Chris here brings up a couple great points.<br />

    <br />

    I've used numerous media players over the last ten or so years. Free ones and paid for versions. Real player, Winamp, Monkey, etc.<br />

    <br />

    Each and every one of them blatantly asks the user IF they want the app to seek out and add files or folders during either it's installation process, or via a prominently placed notice at the apps initial startup... normally it/they also enclose a note indicating just where the user can do this process manually if the auto import function is declined.<br />

    <br />

    Some of the worst media players are those who infer, take for granted, or inordinately enact some sort of adopting process of files, or retag outright into some proprietary fashion existing files by changing their tags without telling/indicating to the end user such a process is ongoing…. Or about to be…. Especially if there are several tagging options available to choose from… and we all should know by now, indeed there are… BUT it can’t ever hurt to say this to even the most informed and experienced user.<br />

    <br />

    I’m not much on the proposition of personal confusers generally speaking, but I’m not ignorant either…. When I see something redundant, or I already understand a circumstance and its associated notice pops up from time to time in a bit of software, I merely ignore it. It’s not a buzz kill… horrific situation or something that will force me to injure myself or some other person! Sheesh.<br />

    <br />

    Isn’t the Golden rule of Cyber world, when dealing with the washed and unwashed populous at large, “K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) & take nothing for granted?”<br />

    <br />

    Once any notion of some conceived, or perceived level of experience is obliged into a program, it instantly becomes presumptuous. Presuming any aforementioned degree of knowledge, proprietary or otherwise, becomes thereafter problematic.<br />

    <br />

    J River Media Center’s immensely large global dynamic for file handling, albeit via associative & participatory compliance with other previously existing proprietary engines and not their own devise, has by it’s very nature fashioned itself into a corner of sorts. <br />

    <br />

    It is indeed non intuitive for the novice user. Daunting for the beginner at the very least. Further, even the moderately informed user has a large learning curve where JR MC is concerned. A very large learning curve.<br />

    <br />

    Simplifying many of the aspect of Media Center could only increase its novelty, application, and number of devotees.<br />

    <br />

    Instead, it seems, the various MC iterations become more and more bloated, adding to the present enigma the newbie and casual user are faced with when acquiring one of its versions.<br />

    <br />

    Any truly powerful soft tool such as J River Media Center will have its own level of getting to know it’s in’s and outs, of course. Though nothing in it’s integration, or usage should become an assumed practice… if it does, it then becomes less so an intuitive object and reflects better to those previous owners… and provides for new a fresher client base, more and more obstacles.<br />

    <br />

    It is then at that time, an ‘insiders’ choice for media playback and is no longer a user friendly avenue to enjoying ones media. Thus by it’s current nature, it continues to subtract from the market share it could hold to one of lesser proportions.<br />

    <br />

    Perhaps as I’ve been noticing of late, some programs in today’s market enable the user to operate them in one of two modes…. Novice and advanced, or some other likewise terms are applied.<br />

    <br />

    Flexibility is great for those who know all the answers… the advanced crowd as it were…. But functionality, ease of use, and high performance are as valuable, if not more so than mere flexibility and customization. Two chief factors JR MC prides itself upon more so, it would seem, than being a joy to operate immediately.<br />

    <br />

    Using and unlocking the potential of any Media Player today should not require the acquisition of a new vernacular or skill set. Neither should one already possess a working knowledge of DC base Filters, other filters or plug ins, as are necessary for optimizing their new media player’s performance. It is however a presumption with MC…. As are a few more basic aspects as Chris pointed out.<br />

    <br />

    Taking another look at a thing following several variations of it have been marketed, is a common and practical approach that any forward thinking enterprise ought be considering as it’s product (s) evolve, in order to maintain a viable and objective perspective.. The outcome of such a process or reappraisal should keep it both popular and profitable, by increasing its appeal to the general public.<br />

    <br />

    Isn’t technology supposed to make our lives easier, and happier? Not frustrating and time consuming! But then perhaps JR MC would rather remain in the shadow of iTunes and Windows Media Player, than overshadow them both… as well it could, were it a more user friendly construct In all fairnesss here I must add JR MC is not alone in this approach to gaining experienced user appeal… Windows Media Player and others, presume and require certain levels of experience or Cyber knowledge to gain the best from them. My take here is the Why of it all… Why follow, when you can lead? Why step back when you can step up? <br />

    <br />

    Another statement lays in the ongoing updates that MC continually spawns following many of their new version releases. It says ‘not yet ready’ ‘half baked’ and/or ‘too much too soon’ at least Especially if these are bug fixes and not driver updates for other forthcoming devices..<br />

    <br />

    Obvious is only the employee of the objective eye… or the uneducated one.<br />

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    "I think we have it about right." <br />

    <br />

    I'm sure bitrate agrees with you wholeheartedly after your demo program cost him countless hours of work, if indeed said work can completely rectify his situation.<br />

    <br />

    I think you have arrogance about right.<br />

    <br />

    Just out of curiosity, have you ever come across any other program (and a demo in particular) that within the first 30 seconds of its first use starts scanning and altering your files? I haven't and I've worked in computers for 30+ years.<br />

    <br />

    As to "offending sophisticated users," give me a break. They wouldn't even see the message as they would have nixed it long before they'd become JRMC sophisticates. After all it would run only on first time installations (I know, I know, plus the few times a complete new install is necessitated). I'm pretty sure your fragile sophisticates would suffer those monstrously irritating and demeaning instances with gritted teeth. Having incurred only minor emotional damage and loss of tooth enamel, in the end all would be relatively well, as they could pat themselves on the back for grinning and bearing just so that some hapless newbie could have his files and keep them too.<br />

    <br />

    I had suggested bitrate take another look at MC 15, I would guess your arrogance and unwillingness to listen has not helped that cause. I certainly would no longer consider it were I in his/her shoes.<br />

    <br />

    Chris

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    Chris,<br />

    I don't think "countless hours" is warranted. I went back and re-read bitrate's post. <br />

    <br />

    The "damage" was this:<br />

    <br />

    "I discovered that the date and time on all of the MP3 files in entire folders had been changed ..." and the fact that ID3v2 tags were added.<br />

    <br />

    Jim

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    Thanks, guys, for your replys. In response to J River:<br />

    <br />

    <cite>"During that 30 second period, there is a message that says what it will do."</cite><br />

    <br />

    If there was a message, I never saw it. I could only guess what the program was doing.<br />

    <br />

    <cite>"You can turn off auto-import, analysis, and cover art lookup."</cite><br />

    <br />

    These options should never be enabled by default. If the program takes off scanning and altering files in 30 seconds, the user doesn't even have time to go in and explore the options and disable such items.<br />

    <br />

    When the program is run for the first time, you could have a simple wizard appear which asks the user to set some of the main preferences (such as auto-import).<br />

    <br />

    <cite>"The "damage" was this..."</cite><br />

    <br />

    You seem to think that having my timestamps and tags modified without my permission was no big deal. I have spent countless hours ripping, recording, tagging, and organizing my music collection just the way I wanted; and your program messed it all up in a few minutes.<br />

    <br />

    The timestamps are important to me because I like to be able to look at the files and see exactly when they were created. And of course my tagging system was destroyed by adding the ID3v2 tags. I can't tell you how angry it made me when this happened.<br />

    <br />

    Fortunately, I was able to recover from this, but it took me about two and a half hours to go through my collection and determine exactly which files had been affected, and then to delete all of the affected folders and re-copy them from a backup drive.<br />

    <br />

    I really encourage you to make some changes to your software.

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    blindjim wrote>"... J River Media Center’s immensely large global dynamic for file handling, albeit via associative & participatory compliance with other previously existing proprietary engines and not their own devise, has by it’s very nature fashioned itself into a corner of sorts. ..."<br />

    <br />

    I am not sure I understand.<br />

    In particular your reference to "other previously existing proprietary engines and not their own devise".<br />

    <br />

    What proprietary engines does J. River use that they did not develop themselves? Am I misinterpreting your intended meaning or can you cite what proprietary engines J. River used which are not of their own devise?<br />

    <br />

    I am not a fan of J. River, in part because:<br />

    <br />

    1. Mr. Hillegass mangled most of my posts (some of which contained very good ideas) without attribution, although he has mostly deleted his edited versions after quite some time. Amazing that the inherent copyright of the words of posters on a forum better called INTERCEPT (sic) can be so easily violated, by a probably illegal 'adhesion agreement' screen.<br />

    <br />

    2. In my experience J. River's product could not automatically switch the sample rate of my E-MU 0404 USB DAC interface box, while Media Monkey could. It is important to me to be able to play a track that is 192Khz, or 96Khz, or 44.1Khz, without having to manually use E-MU applet to do the switching.<br />

    <br />

    3. To my ears, Media Monkey has a cleaner, more audiophile sound than J. River.<br />

    <br />

    4. I am not a fan of J. River marketing strategy which obtains much of its revenue by reselling its existing customer base in order to use each new J. River release. Media Monkey's free version is much more capable than J. River's free version, and purchasing Media Monkey's premium version once, allows getting all future releases without being charged yet again.<br />

    <br />

    Hope you (blindjim) can and will take the time to respond.<br />

    <br />

    Thanks,<br />

    iq100<br />

    the best way to delete an idea is to post one of your own.

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    <br />

    It’s all about expectations…. JR MC has their’s… prospective owners of JR MC have their own, as well.<br />

    <br />

    Whose right or appropriate?<br />

    <br />

    The prospective owners of course!<br />

    <br />

    To manufacturer or in this case simply ‘write’ a program that expects some previous or inside knowledge of the app by new owners is preposterous.<br />

    <br />

    J River has been listening to and catering to current cronies and friends… and have seemingly lost a true objective perspective on how to bring newbies into the fold. Ala the auto importing functionality mentioned here of late…. And there are other levels wherein greater knowledge than a cursory level is expected from JR MC clients. By & large.<br />

    <br />

    Once you get to nosing around in most any JR MC itteration, you’ll come into contact with the ‘filters’, area. Here is where you must wind up if you seek bit true playback.<br />

    <br />

    Notably my first steps here were to install and obligate DC Base Source for Apple lossless, ALAC, or ‘ m4a’ bit perfect playback.<br />

    <br />

    Did JR MC make that encoder/decoder, or filter as JRiver uses the term of often? <br />

    <br />

    Nope.<br />

    <br />

    Looking further into other areas just recently such as DVD playback, one can choose to use Cyberlink Power DVD engines for video AND audio playback.<br />

    <br />

    J River didn’t create that one either…. Along with the Cyberlink filter choice, you can choose Windows MP… again… JR didn’t make either of ‘em.<br />

    <br />

    Itunes is no exception either… here the obvious filter and prerequisite engine for playback of the iTunes proprietary file types, is the Apple made Quicktime engine. <br />

    <br />

    However in Windows XP Pro and possibly other “Pro” Windows versions, more settings outside the JR MC app are required.<br />

    <br />

    Again, this Quicktime module … plug in… filter… is not a JR construct so far as I know it to be.<br />

    <br />

    These above mentioned ‘plug ins’ are what I previously termed proprietary appliances. Not made buy JR and they can be absolutely required at some point if certain file types are to be played back using the JR MC software.<br />

    <br />

    I doubt too many if any encoders or decoders required for the immense file type playback JR affords folks, are made by JR, they simply enable, enact, point towards, some other preexisting gizmo to do the work…. <br />

    <br />

    So it seems to me off the top of my head, that JR is more the Employmnet agency than it is the Service Center they implied themselves to be.<br />

    <br />

    Wanna play back Real Audio files? OK… we’ll sened out someone from Real Audio to you right away! Rather than addressing in house some new devise which emulates or does the same job as the Real Audio plug in… engine.. yada.<br />

    <br />

    Or conversely, mentioning the user might have or need to use, some other steps for acquiring their fav file type playback if it’s other than mp3.<br />

    <br />

    There might even be legal reasons for why engines such as Real Audio, Windows wma, Itunes, m4p… are not being emulated and merely a leeching of these products is allowed or accomplished, by and large.<br />

    <br />

    The ‘corner’ I see JR has settled itself into is simple… it has tried to be the end all be all to everyone, for everything. This method, desire, claim, proposition has never been successful to the best of my knowledge throughout history!<br />

    <br />

    Although I suspect the Swiss Army knife came closest… but then I don’t recall those folks saying it was going to do every job for everyone either.<br />

    <br />

    MC just begs for, and very often it gets, anecdotal or evidentiary experiences which are indeed outright contrary to, or some will ask for greater insights for obtaining a positive outcome via some further manipulation of the MC settings, using advanced techniques or some other non obvious information for their remedies..<br />

    <br />

    In short… the one size fits all accolade is under pinned with a myriad of initial if not eventual issues… for the newbie? Certainly! For the novice, most likely! …and for the intermediary user? Most probably.<br />

    <br />

    MC definitely requires insights and experience levels which are NOT privy to the casual beginner who unwittingly takes the One size fits all claims to heart and thinks it’s merely a load and go bit of kit.<br />

    <br />

    It’s not a slam dunk player that does it all … all by itself… and no application… media player or otherwise, should ever take for granted the end users abilities, or experience level, presuming them to be of a certain echelon. <br />

    <br />

    Media Center does this routinely. Be it due to being poorly hyped or simply put, bad marketing.<br />

    <br />

    There’s little implication right up front that any previous pc or media player exp is needed in any of MC ads. Some of it’s language too inside the app is non intuitive.<br />

    <br />

    My foremost pet peeve is the forum based solution center itself J River employs blatantly as it’s sole outlet for answering user questions. Some are completely ignored, or there are those which get little if any accurate input.<br />

    <br />

    I personally had to rely upon a friend who had been using a previous version in order to setup my own…. And then only for audio playback. Only when MC 15 was bought and installed by me was I able to get DVD playback working! (Albeit using Cyber link filters!) <br />

    <br />

    To date, I still have no idea as to what the keyboard comnmands are for use during DVD playback! I have to toggle between the display and image screens to control playback!<br />

    <br />

    Consequently, only when Cyberlink won’t play the copied to disc DVD, will I resort to using JR MC… If I don’t just use the orig and avoid the hassles..<br />

    <br />

    I still get contacted from time to time by those people who have not been handed a viable solution to their setup issues by the appropriate J River MC sellers.<br />

    <br />

    …I still have my own issues utilizing fully & properly all the JR MC functions, eg. above.<br />

    <br />

    Just think about it? Just how large is the voice that followed this CA article alone?<br />

    .<br />

    Why aren’t the JRiver websites sufficient enough to resolve all the issues people face when attempting to install and integrate MC on their computers?<br />

    <br />

    That should be enough of a statement to shed the proper light on JRiver MC, and it’s involved subsystems and tweaks it contains, and how obscure they can appear to the end user!.<br />

    <br />

    Two other websites I’m aware of get asked questions about JRiver routinely. How come? Isn’t the JRiver solution center good enough? Nope, apparently not. <br />

    <br />

    That should say something to the makers of JR MC that they’ve outgrown themselves and/or their own product… . Though this should be no surprise to them either. <br />

    <br />

    I actually feel JRiver folks are well intentioned. Yet the issues surrounding setup, revisions, updates, functionality, and installation, as well as what is done without consent of the end user initially are areas that can and should be addressed…. But that of course, means less profitability if only more people are placed on hand to aid support of the JRiver vehicle.<br />

    <br />

    I’ll have to say here with all due considerations, quite likely, many of the, ‘It will play every file type made! Gizmos require users to integrate added plug ins, filters, etc., in order to gain FULL FUNCTIONALITY of their players, and as well they may be using those same engines such as mentiond herein… Windows MP, Real Audio, Quicktime, Cyberlink… etc.<br />

    <br />

    True too only Apple has a phone line support arm and then only if you also own Apple hardware… at least an IPod.<br />

    <br />

    Again, It’s about expectations. Expectations are resentments under construction, when they are not appropriate. <br />

    <br />

    . J River expects something of the people they sell their products to… and the buyer of the J River player has some expectations of their own… naievely or not.<br />

    <br />

    The issue is exactly what are these expectations… and how valid are they? ….on both sides of the ledger.<br />

    <br />

    Users see innocently enough one method to handle all of their media concerns.<br />

    <br />

    J River offers a solution, but obscures much of the involvement the user will encounter once they begin to optimize or customize their new Media Center app, and touts only it’s attractive qualities. <br />

    <br />

    It’s installation too has expectations… and does not fully disclose all of it’s ohngoing features. And activities as they initiate.<br />

    <br />

    A simpler, more comprehensive installation process that does more than allow folks to choose file types and skins ought to be provided…. With some disclaimer if file tuypes will undergo alterations.<br />

    <br />

    Much of the configuration of the player itself has been left out… and up to the imagination and preffs of the buyer.<br />

    <br />

    A few extra pages of installation choices and notifications would forgoe much of the voluminous posts on the JR forums and elsewhere on the web. <br />

    <br />

    Why added pages or screens aren’t ibn the initial install amaze me to this day.<br />

    <br />

    Neglecting to include more pointers during install is well… lazy and thoughtless..<br />

    <br />

    Real audio had one area in it’s intallation years ago which said, Would you like to protect your files?<br />

    <br />

    It never said this would be irreversible later on. It also never said no other player would play them after that process occurred either. So poor communication gave me a REAL headache as all the files on my pc were ultimately lost… that was 10 years ago. <br />

    <br />

    ‘Protecting files’ ever since has meant to me… backing them up… not alterting their formats or tags.<br />

    <br />

    CA’s Chris has said repeatedly here on these pages, plug and play is here! That’s what is expected… now and going forward. Prequisite drivers for example which are needed in order to get some hard ware to work is a less than proposition…. <br />

    <br />

    Why then should greater inside knowledge of pc hardware and software be any different? Well, outside that of the rudimentary fundamentals of pc operation? Selecting defaults, etc.<br />

    <br />

    I’d offer if JRiver wishes to be everything to everyone, a more simplified version… plug and play… non bit true iteration should be compiled. Or some separation of the two camps… Videofiles and audiophiles…. Is in order… and crying for dedicated audio and video entities which can be arranged at leangtgh by the advanced user or at least the interested ‘file’ to achieve their own ends.<br />

    <br />

    AS it stands now, JRiver is a confusing presumptious entity which presumes experience levels of the end user inappropriately.<br />

    <br />

    Specialization is where advancement and increased performance comes from normally. … Usually not from so called ‘cure-alls’.<br />

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    Many good points BJ. There are folks at JR doing some dedicated and unique work. The database architecture is supposedly custom, and it is fast. Also of note, was Matt's recent release, at the behest of customers in need of a solution, for a new WASAPI [Event] mode which solved some glitches and seems to have improved performance for all. <br />

    <br />

    I'm thankful for the progress at JR, but there are things are just don't waste reporting on any more because of the attitude of some there. <br />

    <br />

    MC is notoriously unprepared for what I call 'error detection'...i.e. your sound card is set to 44kHz (like an EMU 0202 when you start up your PC) and playback is set at 96kHz in MC. MC will lock and eventually you have to kill it. Or how about, trying to get the kids set up with a show but your mapped drive is offline, sometimes this time will simply overwhelm JRMC. It's a real pain in the butt. For years, when things get glitchy, MC often "sticks" and can not "error correct"...on every system and OS I have used, and often becomes so unresponsive you have to power down. <br />

    <br />

    Others report this and if MC weren't so useful, most of the time, it would like drive most users insane. Don't report this there though, you'll get told to check your DS filters for bad ones, or your machine must be inferior. <br />

    <br />

    All JR has to do to is the release JRMC Audiophile version, a slimmed down specific audio-only version for a fair price.<br />

    <br />

    That's a huge move that should be in the works right now because then they can continue to cater to the developing TV/DLNA stuff, but offer solid performance and features to this crowd.<br />

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