gvr

Hi there, After much waiting for a commercial product yet to be released, I've started considering building my own system. This would consist of a pair of Linkwitz Orions and there are a few options for the electronics: a) Get a DEQX HDP-4, or b) Use my current DAC (BADA) with an analog active processor designed by Siegfried Linkwitz, or c) Do the DSP and xover using software and then feed the signals into a high end multi-channel DAC like the Prism Orpheus d) Replace my BADA with a home built miniDSP system A few questions: - How good is the DAC portion of the DEQX units compared to BADA and other high end DACs like Prism Orpheus? - How good is open source room/driver correction software vs "paid" PC software vs DEQX vs Audyssey? Thanks!

Thanks for the invite, I'm leaving San Francisco where I live for Christmas in Stockholm so I'll be pretty close to you - but unfortunately not close enough. Would have been fun to hear them. I have placed a pre-order for a pair of Focal SM9s. I haven't heard them yet, but I've heard most other Focal speakers and imho they know what they're doing. For me, it was a very close call between them and the 8260Ds, and it's not obvious that one is better than the other for a variety of reasons. I think the SM9s in some ways represent the pinnacle of a dying paradigm, just like a fully mechanical Pagani Zonda super car does. You know it's not the future - but everything is just beautifully executed and 100% proven, and there's arguably no way the design could be significantly improved. The 8260D on the other hand break new ground and represent where the market quite obviously will move. But, they're an early implementation of a next gen system (not to say bad, just not as mature). I haven't heard either product, I'm just saying this is the natural cycle of technology: redefine, refine, repeat. I think any sane person would be happy with either choice, and I'm mostly here because I love to geek out. I haven't decided whether to do any eq correction. I've never measured my room using pro equipment or experimented with different pre/post XO DSP solutions, so I can't say if I'm missing out or not. Obviously any room eq would have to be pre-preamp in my setup. Re HT: my setup is stereo plus a 1080p front projector with a retractable 100" screen. Expanding the system to 3-7 channels wouldn't bring enough joy to justify the cost or the damage it would do to the harmony of my living room. Cheers, Marcus

+1 great post

I completely agree with you AudioZorro. Most technological products are not designed by one person though, and I personally don't care how many people that worked on a 911 and iPhone. You're probably right that most of the audio companies don't have the skills to do an active design, but I'm perfectly happy buying from a consolidated giant like B&W+Classe or Focal+Naim that have proper engineering muscle. The barriers stopping the dealers from embracing actives are imho 1. Fun: many people wouldn't buy them on principle because they think their shiny amplifier boxes are fun talking points, and they wouldn't have the opportunity to fiddle with cables, upgrades, etc. 2. Convenience: the speaker already considerable weight would go up 3. Profits: the _speakers_ already considerable price would go up (and while the overall system price would possibly remain the same or go down, they'd have a hard time squeezing out the same amount of profit) 4. Fear of losing existing customer base: they've already established long relationships with customers and it hurts to say "yeah you know what, all those boxes and cables I sold you last year - you should sell them _all_. This paradigm is over. I've got something better." 5. Philosophical coherence: most successful companies, dealers, etc have a simple consistent product philosophy. If I walk into a store and see a set of products that have wildly different design philosophies people don't feel that the company is run by someone who cares - they feel they're just there to profit. So the store would have to go all active, to maintain credibility. This seems like an incredibly risky move and what do you do with all the old inventory?

Just wanted to point out that this is wrong: "Active is actually passive x-over before the amps". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_crossover#Active

@Fishnchips I assumed @bugstone was referring to the SCM25s, but maybe I'm wrong

The latest word from Focal is that he SM9s will start shipping in Q1 2012. As you may know they were announced in 2010, and have been delayed several times so it's hard to know. I have heard the Grande Utopias, and have high hopes for these little guys. And by little I mean size-wise, they weigh about 80 pounds each.

Here are some active speakers to die for: - Emerald Physics (I heard these used with software crossover running on a Mac, feeding LF+MF+HF channels through a Prism Orpheus, that in turn fed 3 Classe CA2200s feeding the speakers) - Active top of the line Linn speakers (for example either 350As with electronics built in or external electronics. I haven't heard the latest incarnation, but did hear a $60k active tri-amped Linn setup 10 years ago that was unbelievably good) - Any of the >$50k PMC or ATC speakers that high end mastering houses use I'm currently leaning towards buying the 3-way Focal SM9s (active crossovers, audiophile grade A/B amps with no caps in signal path, same beryllium tweeter and driver technology used in $200k Focal Grande Utopias). With these, all I need is a good source (my BADA) and a pair of XLR cables, and then I'm done. The main reason I posted here is that they're delayed and I'm tired of waiting for them.

Just to make sure we're on the same page: an active speaker has its power amplifiers connected directly to its driver, like this drawing on wikipedia shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Active_loudspeaker.svg. From a technical perspective, a crossover-less speaker with only one element and one amplifier is a special case of an active design: power amplifier connected directly to the driver with no capacitors/coils between them. This is what makes the active paradigm, whether 1, 2, 3, 4 or X way, inherently superior from a technical perspective (cost notwithstanding). Most audio paradigms have pros and cons that have to be evaluated subjectively, for example whether you like the sonic signature of soft dome or beryllium tweeters. However there is simply not a single pro with a passive crossover, other than cost (which for most people is an important consideration). Claiming otherwise is like claiming that a Fiat is faster than a Ferrari, because the Ferrari was out of your budget. It's just not a subjective matter. I've never heard the speakers you mention in your post, but I've heard good things about them and I'm sure they sound great. Kind Regards, Gvr

Can a 1ch Behringer output drive 2 power amp inputs (for the woofers) or are you suggesting wiring the woofers in parallel driving them with a single amp?

This crossover only has 6 channels though, an 8 channel box would be ideal (unless one purchases different amps for the woofers). I guess one way to go could be to use A/B for the mid and highs, and a D for the woofers.

The Linn systems are great. If I had a $50k budget their top model would probably be at the top of my list. I think $10k isn't enough money to get a great Linn setup.

Do you have pictures of the Bobettes with wiring?

Here is a good explanation of why, all other things being equal, actives are superior from a technical perspective. This fact can not be disputed. http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm Whether, for a given amount of money, an active design or a passive design is better isn't something I'm going to get into. The "problem with actives" is that you need multiple amplifiers, the "problem with passives" is that you need very good amplifiers because of the passive crossover in the signal path.

Hi Doddsy, I've heard about these speakers, but haven't done any research on them until now. The concept seems sound. The Orions that Wood Artistry sells are $15k so that's a bit steep for me, but I'm going to look into building them. I don't have the time to build the electronics or do any woodwork, but if it's simply a matter of assembly I should be able to find the time. Did you make or buy the panels? Which amplifiers and crossovers did you get, and did you buy or build them? One option might be to get a multi-channel studio DAC and use software crossovers. For the amps I'm not sure. Is the polymer frame from your bedroom speaker custom made? I love how the elements just float in the room, nice job! It's kind of like a Philippe Starck Ghost Chair or a Kartell LCP.