Kumar Kanetkar

From recent posts what I understand is that the differences that cables bring into the audible domain can only be heard by trained or naturally gifted ears, and not by the large undiscerning majority. In this instance I guess I prefer to remain where I am, in the large majority, so that I don't spend money to obtain improvements that I will never hear. Regretfully I had to spend some money over a few years to realize this, but that is what is meant by hard won experience, I guess! For those that have the ability and the desire to do this, they ought to know which side of the division they fall in, knowing the very human tendency of getting snared by the marketing and peer pressure influences. And this doesn't apply just to cables of course, there are the 15,000 dollar DACs as well:-) As far as speakers are concerned, I don't know that it is scientifically ok to say that if two of them have the same measurable spec, they will sound the same. Is there a spec for speaker voicing? Leaving aside the room acoustics part, do the speaker specs capture the influence on the sound by the nature of the speaker cabinet, for instance?

It isn't surprising to see so much heat generated over this subject - as much as any other science v faith subject. After all, what I hear and what you hear, will never be the same even when we are listening to the same set up in the same environment for the reason that hearing happens in the individual brain, even the ears are just transducers. Given that, I am not sure I see how this subject can ever be brought into the objective science domain. Why do I say that? Although I am not well versed in how the brain works, I suspect that what I hear isn't just a function of what my ears convey to my brain, but is also influenced by what my eyes see, and how my brain reacts to that. And what my brain knows about the source of what is producing the sound. Alchohol or other substance levels in the brain at the time would add their own to the mix of what finally produces my sensation of what I hear, which would then be very different from the person sitting next to me. For me, it would be very real. As it would be for the other person. Which would be the truth? I would say, there would be as many versions of it as people in the room. In my case, I know that my system sounds a lot better to me late at night, lights turned down low, and after a couple of glasses of wine. When I was a tube equipment user, even the vision of the glow of the tubes was beneficial! Certainly too, the price I had paid for some tweak played tricks on how my brain perceived the sound thereafter. That isn't as foolish as it sounds, it is the basis on which most brands are built, that extract a huge premium from consumers over the intrinsic value of the product sold. Only a few rare folk are able to resist the lure and live their lives wearing non branded clothes - as one example. The most notable example of that admirable breed is Warren Buffett, I imagine. Bottom line? Beyond a point, if something floats your boat, good for you. Personally, after many years chasing mirages, I have decided that for me what matters is the quality of the performance, and of the recording of that, at one end of the chain. At the other, the speaker voicing quality, placement, and room acoustics. In between the two, decent amplification - the classic straight wire with gain. I believe that solid state and digital technology has done most of all that is needed in this area, in well connecting the source to the speaker at prices that many of us can afford. However, if someone else was to make a claim for an expensive exotic bit of kit, I could not say that to be an untrue claim, because it may well be his perception and just as true to him as it may be false to me. Instead of spending my money on any other exotic tweaks, I would rather turn down the lights, spend the money saved on some wine, and let my boat float:-)

If you check my first post, this AE based workaround is just what I have done. It actually works better in some ways - I can now use the ipod touch as a remote to control the itunes music and radio wifi broadcasts from a mac sitting in an adjacent room. And since the i pod is not broadcasting over wifi, the battery stays charged for a decent amount of time. This works quite well too, and since the Marantz has an optical in to its DAC, I am able to use the optical out from the AE. Quite the all rounder, the AE!

The Marantz manual says that it is compatible with ipod touch 3g. But if that device is upgraded to iOS 4, would it not play on the Marantz?

I have an ipod classic as well, a 2010 model. Works fine with Marantz and Denon, but then it doesn't do streaming, which is where the Marantz doesn't seem to cope with the ipod touch 4g. Apple is ringing in changes way too fast for the rest of the world to keep up with them.

The more expensive Marantz, a 2010 model states it is compatible with up to 3G as far as ipod touch is concerned, my unit is 4G. So, technically, Marantz has a defence. The Denon does not specify models, and the 4G works fine with it.

I am not sure I understand the difference - but in the case of both receivers, I would expect them to function in the same way. And for playing the music from the ipod hard disc, they both do so. The only difference is that the Marantz seems unable to deal with streaming audio where the ipod is playing internet radio, while the Denon does this as well. That seems strange and a disappointment from the Marantz which is the more expensive piece of kit.

The Marantz also has a feature the Denon doesn't have and that is a USB B socket at the rear that can connect via USB cable to the USB socket of the Mac. I guess that this bypasses the Dac/soundcard in the Mac, and allows the Dac in the Marantz to take over, to the benefit of sound quality. This works very well too, for both music from the Mac hard disk in I tunes, as well as when the Mac is playing internet radio. So the audio streams seem to be recognized by the rear panel inputs, but unlike what the Denon can do, the front USB socket of the Marantz seems unable to read audio streams.

I am asking the question in the title because I was disappointed by the way it seems to work on my Marantz KI Pearl lite SACD player. When I connect a 4g Ipod touch to the front panel USB socket, it does not pass on the signal when it is playing internet radio. Or I should say, the Marantz does not recognize those signals, because the same ipod, plugged into a similar socket on the Denon M38, playing internet radio, converts the Denon into a fantastic internet radio player. On both the Marantz and the Denon, music from the ipod touch that is sitting in the internal disc of the ipod, plays very well. And the ipod gets charged in both sockets. I did get a workaround done successfully, by using an Airport Express to connect via Toslink to the optical inputs on the rear panel of the Marantz. Streaming to the AE via a mac, I am able to get the Marantz based system to also play very good sounding radio, but is there something I am missing in how to get the Marantz to just accept streaming into the front panel USB socket by the ipod touch connected to it via a white cable?

Since you said entry level, I suggest a analog connection using the headphone out of the computer to the aux in of the amp. Very cheap too, all that I think matters is that the computer shouldn't inject visible noise like hum or static into the signal. And I guess this can be evaluated for less than 5 dollars? I have just posted my views about this today in the only thread I have opened here since joining, you may want to look those up.

I have realized now that as long as the speakers are putting out decent sound, I am not able to hear the differences that audiophiles do - not referring to static of course, that is clearly heard even by me. This inability actually makes life easier! My only concern therefore about direct streaming from the touch, which has the advantage of being able to leave the mac out of the loop completely, is battery life of the little device. Putting out a wifi signal must draw down the battery a lot quicker than using it as remote to control itunes streaming, when the mac does the heavy wifi lifting, is what I am guessing. On the subject of the non audiophile ears, here is where things stand currently for my bedroom set up where the mac sits on a long desk alongside a Denon M38/Spendor S3/5 system. Because of constraints, I am only able to keep the speakers on the desk, and not on stands. I have done what I can to help them, by keeping them close to the front edge of the desk, 18 inches between them and wall behind them. They are mounted on vibrapods, to keep the resonance away from the desk, which is made of wood anyway, and therefore non resonant. I was/am thinking of playing the mac through the stereo, using a DAC, the Denon doesn't have a USB socket to receive signal, of the kind the Marantz Pearl has at the back. The Denon also does not have any optical in. Which is why, thoughts of a DAC. But before I did that, I tried connecting the headphone socket of the mac, to the aux in of the Denon, using ordinary analog wire terminated appropriately at the two ends. And all I can make out as difference in sound is a little reduction in the sound output. The comparison is to the sound level that I hear, when I plug in a ipod to the front of the Denon, where there is a USB socket that can be connected to the 30 pin output from the ipod. Since the Denon has made for Ipod markings on it, I assume that this is digital output too, converted by the DAC inside the Denon. I still have to try an A/B comparison, which is easy to make from the remote of the Denon via the source button on the remote, with a CD playing in the Denon, and the analog wire from the mac headphone socket. If all that I still hear in that is sound level difference, it would seem there is a cheaper way to fix this, by using the Denon volume control button, than buying a DAC! And the mac certainly doesn't inject any static, so if it does bad things, these are the mysterious to me things like jitter/timing and other stuff. So for now, unless I hear something very different/better when I play a CD in the Denon, I will firmly resist the temptation of buying said DAC. I am coming to believe that given a distortion free source, all that my ears can then perceive as sound quality differences are driven by three things: 1. The quality of the speaker 2. The speaker placement in the room 3. The room acoustics, which interacts with speaker placement as well. Since sound isn't heard by the ears, which are mere transmitters, but the hearing happens in the brain, there is also a fourth factor, which isn't as silly as it sounds. And that is I hear better sound after downing a glass of whisky!

Thank you for the input. The problem seems to have fixed itself after some work, though I am not sure why, so I am not quite comfortable. But if it stays that way, I am not complaining... I tried out the AE with an analog cable in another location, and it worked fine, and this ruled out defects in the AE, almost certainly. I then reconnected AE to the main amp, using the same Toslink connection - and now there is no static. I hope it stays that way.

If this is a repeat, sorry, please someone point me to the thread where this may have been covered already. Existing system - Marantz KI Pearl lite SACD player driving high end equipment/speakers. So far I have had excellent results playing lossless files from my ipod, connected from its dock connector to an ipod socket on the front of the Marantz. I suspect that is a digital connection, and the Marantz DAC converts to analog and then feeds the amplifier. Regardless, I am not able to make out much of a difference in this, compared to playing SACDs through the Marantz. I have recently bought an ipod touch, and want to play it wirelessly in this system via an Airport Express. I set up the AE, connecting it using a Toslink to the digital optical input socket of the Marantz, and it is successfully streaming audio from the ipod as well as itunes in a mac, to the system, both music as well as streaming radio. But there is a crackling sound in the speaker - not loud, but audible just above the noise floor, from the speakers. Other than this, the sound quality seems to be just as good as in the other modes. I get clear, noise free sound when I play streaming radio from the i pod touch to another amp, via a cable. So the wifi network seems to be able to do this, providing a distortion free internet radio signal to the ipod touch. Even where the signal is weak, rebuffering stops happen once in a while, but when the stream resumes, there is zero distortion or noise. Given the above - what might be the problem? As I see it, it can only be in the AE, or in the toslink connection to the Marantz. Correct? Any guidance on next steps would be very welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance.