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PCmusic

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  1. I am using Prism Orpheus, a mixer with many analogue and digital inputs. Mine is a old model. Now there are many reasonably priced and high quality studio mixers which can help you to do that. But there are traditional audiophile way. Please join the Dutch 8c Owner Group on Facebook. There are many people using turntables with 8c through various methods.
  2. I posted the wrong link - though that link was also related to his experiences of 8c. The correct link: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/dutch-dutch-8c-speakers.31113/
  3. I just finished reading this post, which I shared with the OP's views: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/acoustic-treatment-for-small-listening-rooms-absorption-vs-diffusion.32129/#post-706281 He has a "small (13' x 11' x 8.5') audio room", a room half long of mine. He however is able to put the speakers against the front walls. Yet he still found 'reflections' are something he need to deal with and consider. His interest is mostly in classical music - but he expressed that for complicated classical music, bare side walls seem to be a problem to him. But he also maintains that for most music, bare walls add a kind of pleasant liveness which all other speakers he used before could not due to the lack of very good off axis responses and perhaps the cardioid midrange. His 'findings' and mine are rather similar. The writings are rather long and needs patience to read, but pleasurable and informative, especially for small apartment dwellers. Two thumbs up!
  4. sorry I didn’t know that specific aspect. That was obviously better. Martijn and others welcome discussions or even tests, which I truly admire. Perhaps I have too rigid thinking about the influences of many other factors.
  5. I haven't watched this yet ... I actually haven't watched the earlier one (which was said that 8c's volume didn't match the other two speakers, which was a major fault in test) ... I actually don't know how to judge from the comparison ... some questions were already in my head when seeing the test: 1. So they knew perfectly that the different speakers were performing their best in the position they were placed? Speaker placement is an art plus science ... must I trust their expertise? 2. Were all DSPs adjusted well (for Grim and 8c)? EQ? I must trust them. 3. We are listening to their recordings of three speakers ... not the speakers ... 4. Will one speaker model perform better in that specific room? It has its own acoustics. I really dunno. (MAYBE they answer all these during the video live? I dunno since I haven't watched) I am not defending 8c ... I just don't know how to judge. To me, it doesn't really matter if ATC, Grim, or 8c performed better in that room ... I didn't try Grimm in my room since it's too big for me. My hunch is, if I have absolute freedom (and time) to do different room treatment, in my room they would all perform very good. I am not a brand religious person regarding audio gears. Rather, I am more sensitive to what fits to my room ... that's probably I take myself as ordinary audiophile ... BTW, I used ProAc, with ATC drivers in my room before. I certainly know ATC has its merits otherwise it won't earn its reputation. If money doesn't matter, I'd like to have Kii BXT ... oh but it's so big ...
  6. A user of Roon and 8c has created a Facebook group for 8c users worldwide. Given that many 8c owners are probably rather 'pro' and less an FB person, I guess users will join the FB group very slowly (or not joining). But I guess when the user base gets larger (like having 200 to 300 members if possible), things will start getting more interesting. https://www.facebook.com/groups/449617959639445/?multi_permalinks=449948672939707&notif_id=1616820825950433&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif
  7. You have a great system and thanks for your comment. Why certain albums are compressed - I personally think there're many reasons. Economic, practical and aesthetic and some out of control, which I have mentioned already. But ultimately audio is also really a matter of taste and preferences. Let's enjoy our beloved music.
  8. I am not an absolutist insisting doctrines ... I actually wanted to buy LS50 but I really can't put subs (GAF) ... Love to know your experience of Xeo 20 and how you setup this in your small room and how it let you enjoy your preferred music. I have some friends living in apartments also have rooms similar to yours. If you could share a bit the best way to set up Xeo 20, I could share your post to them.
  9. Good decision. This is exactly what I did for my 8c as well. I wrote the rationale in my subjective review in the speaker forum here. I totally understand why you did that. It isn't good for speakers with non-uniform directivity and many feel bad looking (read from forums). I agree I need time to accept, but now it's very ok to me.
  10. No I don't have the chance. I just auditioned it in the dealer's room, one around 100 sq ft one over 300sq ft. Both in my view not very properly positioned. One thing I am sure is that the active bass cardioid worked! Bass was rather even in both rooms. But in the smaller room, room reflection problems did not go away (it was not toed in though).
  11. Hi Cadguy When I say curved, it means 1. 8c is being pulled out 180cm from the wall, and placed close to the sidewall (90cm away from the tweeter center) - it is my case. 2. For my case (stated above), and for many recordings, soundstage remains at the center, left and right 'plane' at the front wall location. It means the soundstage and the speakers are completely detached. This is the case even if I don't use 45 toe-in. The curved soundstage is 'source dependent' - which leads to point 3. 3. But for some recordings, some instruments / effects were panned STRONGLY to the far right and left. For these recordings, the left and right instruments / sounds could appear to be coming directly from the drivers. But since majority of sound coming from the center area of the front wall, the overall effect is a seemingly 'curved' soundstage. It's like an inverted smile. 4. NO - those tiny portion of sound in scenario 3 seems to be coming from the driver, but not outside the speakers towards the sidewalls - at least in my room. 5. I find it strange since I re-read Stereophile's John Atkinson's review, his 8c were rather close to the wall and he said he finds sidewall reflections had no problems at all. But I find it hard to compare since I don't know the details of the placement. His room size is "Room: 20' (left side), 25' (right side) × 16' × 8'.—John Atkinson" according to another review. But I actually don't know what he means. I can't figure out exactly how he placed his speakers by his descriptions, and he has abfusers. Simply put ... I cannot find experiences from another user who pull out 8c, close to the wall, like me. 6. But as said, the curved soundstage has been largely resolved in my case. I also placed the speakers 210 to 220cm part ... if they're put closer, sidewall effects will be much more reduced. 7. When I audited 8c in my dealer's room (in free standing mode), no such problems existed. So it's room dependent - that room is noticeably wider than mine, and has more absorption treatment. Having said all this, this is really my particular experience. And you can give me personal messages if you have other questions.
  12. Hello Cadguy before I explained further, just upload a funny video for you and please note the amount of the loudness decreased when my phone doing the recording, changed from the front of the driver to the back of the driver. I’ll write to you later as I am not at home ... IMG_7561.MOV
  13. I was both lucky and unlucky for audition. Lucky - the local dealer is willing to give me a room with a shape similar to me and let me pull out the speakers to the middle of the room and let me move the speakers around. I finally settled on a position, without REW correction, and checked the potential. I discovered if being pulled out, 8c is actually as sensitive as conventional speakers regarding positioning. A few cm left or right, back and forth, could remedy some soundstage problem, for example. I believed when it is close to the wall, a few cm may make some differences too, even it has coupling adjustment supplied through the app - though overall the performance variation may not be as great as being put in 'free space'. I don't have enough experience to tell the whole story admittedly. But it would be great if you're allowed to play around positioning, in either free standing or close-to-the-wall mode. Unlucky - the dealer can't do a home demo. Some countries/cities can, but not mine. Here's my list of auditioned songs lol (I ended up playing 1/3 of them perhaps lol):
  14. Without being able to completely remove sidewall reflections and to cure cases where certain sources cause more treble problems, my easy solution now is to turn down the treble by 3 to 5 dB, easily done from 8c app. I like simple though imperfect solution, especially when I have no time to completely cure the problem. 😅that’s why I said I’m an ordinary audiophile ...
  15. I know there're a lot of debates between smoothing ... but I can't find the answer. I am simply not an expert. I have these charts for psychoacoustics smoothing for left and right channel. Several points: 1. Yes, that should be what the FR is like for now. 2. The increase of treble region seem to be sidewall reflections. 3. The valley after 100Hz is very likely due to ceiling, and I could take care of that later. 4. The notch around 50 to 60 ... I can't do anything for now. I either put 8c back to the front wall but I don't have the time now, or, I use active bass trap to take care of that. 5. I generate a RT60 decay curves for L and R measured at the center (cannot generate waterfall for averaged positions) - I am still learning and I dunno if it's correct. As said, I only know the basics of REW. The room is still on the livelier side, but has been much suppressed than before and listenable to me.
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