Spoonie B

I have a Western Digital Elements 1.5 TB drive. It's not silent, but it's pretty close. The same style goes up to 3 TB, but I haven't used anything above 1.5. I really like mine, though.

Well, I wanted to close the circle here for anyone who's interested. I took Peter's advice and looked around for local shops. I found one that, had I known of when I started this project, I would have gone to in the first place: 32 Ohms in Portland, OR, run by the folks behind ALO Audio cables. I was able to do a fair bit of listening to some other DACs in the store (including, for fun, the Red Wine Audio Isabella, which was astonishing) and take a few home to evaluate in my system. The Music Streamer II+ was a significant upgrade over the base Streamer II, and unquestionably better than the Y-cable/soundcard. Bass was rich and tight, highs sharp, mids clear and resonant. But the KingRex UD-01 was very similar - in fact, my wife ran blind tests for me and I had a hard time distinguishing between the two. With the $150 price difference, HRT was eliminated from contention. The KingRex, in some cases more than the MSII+, had the rich, velvety, full-sounding vinyl quality I was looking for. The PopPulse PCM1796 DAC MKII was, upon first impressions, the best of these three, both at the store and at home. The jazz track I was using as my primary tester (Dave Douglas's "Blue Heaven" from his Soul on Soul release) really shone through the PopPulse. Detail and precision was impressive. The attack in the horns was incredible, the highs were crisp and tight, bass was as good if not better than in the others. That attack, and the texture in the tenor sax especially, really sold me. But then, thinking my decision was made, I let my collection random play for a few hours through the PopPulse, and it began gradually to disappoint. Lush rock tracks (Radiohead, Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road side 2), especially, seemed held back pretty badly - the sound just seemed to stop an inch in front of the speakers. I couldn't shake it. So the next day, I spent hours listening to just the PopPulse and the KingRex. I did a lot of blind testing. And while the PopPulse was unquestionably the more sensitive, more detailed performer, the KingRex was unquestionably the more musical overall, with the richer sound I was looking for. I suspected that 50-100 hours of burn-in might bring the richness out of that PopPulse, which I also preferred for its looks and its cool power source separation, but I could not find any evaluations of it anywhere online. Nothing. I did, however, find a few folks online claiming that adding a PSU to the KingRex made a huge difference, and I like that relatively low-cost upgrade potential. So with nothing else to go on and needing to get the stuff back to the store the next morning, I went with the KingRex. I've been listening for about a week now, and I have no regrets. In the end, it appears that the Music Streamer II just wasn't enough DAC for me. Surprising based on what I've read here and elsewhere, but in the end I've got to trust my ears. Thanks to everyone who replied here - it was helpful! This has been a fun process for me and for the first time since I acquired my original system, the component bug has bit me. I hope I can afford the consequences.

Set up.... I am using brand new Belkin PureAV RCA cables (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00022TN86/ref=oss_product) from the DAC to the receiver, and a Monster Digital USB audio cable (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FZ292W/ref=oss_product) from the PC to the DAC. I know these aren't exactly high end cables, but they ought to be sufficient to support an audible difference between the DAC and the PC's native audio, right? That is, it seems unlikely to me that this is the source of the sameness. Also - my AC power is from a probably crappy source in a very old house. A dedicated power box would likely be an upgrade, but again....could that really be the reason that the DAC isn't making an audible difference?

I agree that $150 is cheap! I was looking closely at reviews for the MF V-DAC @ $300, saw references to the MSII, and began looking into that. Many reviewers compared it positively to the V-DAC. If I can get even 95% quality at 50% cost, I'm interested. I don't feel like I got burned, I just feel like I'm getting something wrong somewhere and I'm not sure where it is. I got the MSII on Amazon and have some time to return it. I am more likely to check out a DAC in the $300 range and see if there's a difference. But, from what I read about the MSII, it still surprises me that it wouldn't seriously outperform my crappy XP and it's native-on-the-MB CrystalFusion soundcard.

My understanding is that by using the HRT, I am bypassing the PC's soundcard, and that by using ASIO, I am bypassing whatever else the OS does to the audio signal natively. I don't fully understand the 44.1/48 thing. I mean, I understand bit depth, but I don't know why Windows converts between the two. So I'm not sure what to do with the ASIO option to "Automatically resample 44.1 48 kHz." I'm also not sure how to rip something at 48, and I don't have any SACD or HDCDs, so isn't everything I have 16/44.1 anyway? Some help here would be appreciated. I have not tried WASAPI because my Vista machine isn't really my audio machine; I was just trying it to see if my HRT DAC suddenly "worked." It didn't make an easily detectable difference. Thanks...

Thanks, Peter. My CD player was one bit, and I haven't used it for a couple years. It's gone, in any event, though I appreciate the suggestion. Don't think I'm overly used to any particular equipment setup. I should also clarify: the sound I'm getting is not bad at all. It's just not clearly better or at all different from the DAC than from the Y-cable/native soundcard. This is the thing I don't get. Borrowing a higher quality DAC is a great idea - if I can find anyone who has one....I don't know any audiophiles where I live! We do have a few high end shops in Portland, where I live, and checking in with them is good idea too. One other factor I didn't think to mention - my room setup is not ideal. The speakers are on opposite ends of a mantle and I sit about 8' from them. The R speaker is situated in a corner, while the L speaker is nowhere near a side wall. I don't have a lot of flexibility here, but I may try moving things around.....still, it's the lack of difference with the DAC that seems most suspect, and I don't think speaker placement explains that lack either. PS - As an aside - I DO like the English stuff and prefer a balanced and accurate sound. I am very sensitive to space in the sound, and get frustrated by sound that seems compressed, or where the highs are harsh or the lows boomy. I guess I'm after a vinyl-type sound, fat and natural through all registers, with lots of space and open staging. The sound of being in the room with actual musicians. I'm obviously compromising a lot for the sake of budget, but I don't really have a choice there. But the kind of sound I'm after is what all the stuff I read about DACs in general indicated I'd find, to some degree or another. So I'm looking for that difference.

Good questions, thanks for the responses. I have listened to a pretty wide range of material, expressly to try to hear the difference. So I've ranged from Radiohead (OK Computer)to Charles Mingus(Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus) to Mozart (Die Zauberflote). The opera is a recent recoding, DDD, not something recorded in the 50s. The Mingus is remastered, and the Radiohead is sonically pretty wide and deep. That's just an example. Beach Boys, U2's Achtung Baby, an older recording of Beethoven's 9th that WAS recorded with old technology, Bill Frissell solo guitar, and lots more jazz. I've ripped over 4,000 tracks so far and have tried a pretty good selection from among them. The jazz and classical tracks are where I really expected to hear the difference in dynamics and spaciousness. Not so - it sounds decent, just not great, and not much better than with the Y cable. The opera, in particular, surprised me - sound really lacks spaciousness through my system with and without the DAC. @Chris, I'm ripping to FLAC (level 5) in burst mode with dBPoweramp with AccurateRip and re-ripping securely on anything that's not accurate. Foobar2000 is my player. I have tried three different PCs as the transport, 2 of which run XP (both have >1GB RAM) and one Vista (has 1GB RAM). My PC volume controls are all maxed and only my receiver is controlling volume. ReplayGain and all other DSPs are disabled. I've tried with and without foobar's EQ. I've tried with and without ASIO. Shouldn't this combination be outputting a bit-perfect signal? I've even set the DAC up to play through powered $100 2.1 desktop speakers, just to see if I got different results, but it was similar - little to no detectable difference between MSII and Y-cable. I am no audio engineer, but I think I have pretty sensitive ears and I know what I'm listening for. Hence my puzzlement....

OK, I'll state up front that this is a highly subjective area. I have been living happily with the same low-budget high-end system for about 15 years: NAD 701 receiver ($350 in 1994) Celestion 5 Mk II bookshelf speakers ($400 in 1994) Rotel CD player ($250 in 1994 - demised) Reviews and my own ears suggested that these components, while modest, were very high quality at their price points, and much better than anything at Circuit City or Best Buy. For a while, I've done most listening from my iPod hooked into my receiver with a 3.5mm->RCA cable. Even with high quality mp3s, sound was not to my liking. So I'm now making the switch to PC-served audio using Foobar/FLAC. Sound improved, using my laptop as the transport, but was still lacking. I figured the Y-cable was a big part of the problem, and after a lot of research, decided that a USB DAC was the answer. In keeping with my low budget, I was looking for a quality but low-cost DAC, and settled on the HRT Music Streamer II. I've been listening with it for about a week. I don't know what I was expecting, but I have to strain to hear the difference between it and the Y-cable from my laptop's headphone jack. So I have to conclude that either... 1. my expectations were out of wack - DACs just don't yield big results but are more about fine-tuning; 2. a better DAC would make a big difference - the MSII just isn't the right tool; 3. my system is not what it was 15 years ago, or maybe was never all that - the MSII would reveal better sonics from a higher-end system; or 4. my ears are not what I like to think they are, and I am just failing to hear the differences that others would. I have no experience at all with DACs - for years, I relied on the Rotel CD player's native DAC which sounded great to me and never thought about why it sounded great. And while I did quite a lot of listening to acquire my system components 15 years ago, I have never desired an upgrade, so I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as many of you. So, I'm hoping for some perspective here. As stated at the outset, I understand the subjectivity involved. I'm just looking for some insight into the experience of others so I have some kind of benchmark for making my own evaluations here at home.

Hi, folks. This is a cool community you've got here. I'm a semi-newbie trying to get great sound at a very low budget. I've done a lot of research and I want to check in with people here to see if there's anything I have failed to consider, and to hopefully get a couple questions answered. Background: I am ripping my large CD and live bootleg collection, intending to use a computer from now on as my only audio player. Here’s my current system: FLAC files on a WD Elements 1.5TB External USB Hard Drive -> HP laptop running Vista Pro, using Foobar2000 to play securely ripped FLAC files -> 25-foot Monster Y cable (3.5” minijack out to RCA L/R in) -> NAD 701 receiver-> Celestion 5 bookshelf speakers ---- The Y cable is terrible, and the laptop’s soundcard isn’t much better. This is all equipment I’ve had for a while (except the laptop). The receiver and speakers were 1994 purchases that have served me well for years. I used to play CDs through a Rotel CDP, but it broke and I wasn’t interested in investing in an almost-dead technology. So here I am. My budget is very limited – I’m looking to get away with a $300 investment MAX right now, and to do something that is as friendly as possible to eventual modular upgrades. I was going to get a Squeezebox Touch, but I don’t really need the wireless, don’t care about the Internet Radio wirelessly, and don't want to fuss with its server. So I started considering DACs, and was fired up about the MF V-DAC until I read that the MSII is, to many ears, even better, and certainly better value at half the price. Banking half my budget to save for the next piece of the system would be lovely. That said, I would be willing to go up to $300 now for the right DAC solution. My immediate goal is to optimize the equipment I already have, so I can get fidelity at least as good as my old Rotel CDP from the same hifi. My plan is to replace the Y-cable and soundcard problems with an HRT Music Streamer II (base model) that would run directly with RCA cables into my receiver. So here are my questions: 1.) 24/96 seems great for me for audio. But is there anything that I am failing to consider in passing up 24/192? The next piece of my system is to replace my ancient CRT TV with an HDTV. Doesn’t DVD audio and HDTV audio use 24/192? What if I play Netflix movies from my laptop through into the HDTV with audio through the hifi setup? Does 24/96 cripple me? 2.) I was also intrigued by the M2Tech HiFace, but I don’t understand exactly how it works or how it would interact with a DAC. Could it be used in conjunction with the MSII to provide 24/192 capability? 3.) Since my key goal is optimizing my sound output, am I wrong to start with the DAC? I can’t imagine that anything could be a better first step than bypassing the laptop soundcard and headphone jack, but want to check before I go for it. 4.) RCA Cable recommendations? Something sub $40 would be ideal and sub $20 would be idealer. I don't want to be inhibit the benefits of the DAC, but I don't want more cable than my components really require, either. Are gold-tipped Belkins at $12 crap? 5.) Educating myself on the many issues involved with high end audio has been fun, but I’m constantly realizing that I don’t even know what I don’t know. So, is there anything I’m simply failing to take into consideration? Thanks in advance for your help!