cashstrapped_kel

Optical as a means of digital interconnects from a PC (EMI heaven) to your hi-fi (extremely sensitive to very minute changes, especially EMI) is just a flawed idea, plain and simple (low-resolution, high jitter, wrong ohmic interfaces, etc.). If I'm to draw an analogy, it would be pretty much akin to starting a fire with wet kindlewood (it can still happen, just that it needs a lot more effort). Most people in your shoes would have been pretty much discouraged by the lack of results if you restrict yourself only to this option. If you must terminate only in SPDIF, (for cheap/budget level) try something like the M2Tech Hiface (asynch USB to coaxial SPDIF) or the Musiland Monitor 01 USD (USB to BNC/coaxial/optical). But don't get too engrossed with these. As it is in audio, you get what you pay for. If you know your system has the potential, just go all out already (if you can afford).

If your DAC can take in BNC, why not try the Halide Design Bridge? It is one of the better ones around. Could do away with the Terratec altogether. The X-tal light probably means that the incoming signal has too much jitter and your DAC is having a tough time coping with all the error correction.

Oh dear...An audiophile trip to Japan will need to be in order for me now... Nope, the last I searched, none of my favourite stuff are on vinyl. Which brings me to something. There is something funny about stuff from the Far East these days (esp. only in Japan). Apparently, if you wanted to get the best quality stuff, it would still be in digital format. But these would be labelled as "First Press Limited Edition" (which I proudly say I own them and pay/bleed a massive premium to get them in on special import basis). They work fine for me except that I need the equipment to really get the most out of them. And that costs! But I totally agree on analog audio being the best way to experience sound. My best experience so far was never at an audio meet/fair or in a shop. Rather, it was at an old cinema (God bless them and don't ever let them change) that still used master audio tapes and 35mm reels (give me these over 4K-HD anyday, I mean it). Stuff like gunshots, special effects and dialogue never sounded so real and lifelike compared to the best of what digital cinema has to offer. Even background music (in a film!) was very convincing, engaging and beautful sounding. So yes, I totally agree on the business of analog audio. Unfortunately, when dealing with certain types that have "moved on" with the times, analog ain't just going to happen for a lot of us "future" folk. Not until the industry recognises this issue about quality again.

@Steve: The keyword there is the "innocent civilians" phrase. It would be difficult for someone who did his/her homework and wishes to settle down only to recognise later that the signature he likes would possibly cost him a bomb (the exact situation I'm facing now). So yes...you can get "decent" (with fingers doing the quotation marks action) sound for low-end budget. But everything the reviews, etc say only mean it "for the price". Some of the more decent ones (reviews, that is) will come with a caveat of "YMMV". It certainly had been the case for a lot of components, systems, equipment, etc. I came across... For discerning folk, subtlety is key. Of course it is very very infuriating if one had to sometimes fork out double the initial budget just to get that extra 5% improvement. But yet it's that 5% that makes the music "come alive". @Barrows: Thanks for the recommendation. I would love to go into analog (hope I got the spelling right) audio, but the thing is that it would mean drastically changing my musical tastes yet again. If analog audio can be had without a change in musical preferences (no, it's not those Gaga trash - sorry if I offended anyone), I'll definitely be all over it now. Sadly, that isn't going to happen and young folks like us would have to be content with digital. Thank goodness for Computer Audiophile, though! @Richard: Agreed fully on the quality bit. Even with CDs, there is a fair bit of guesswork involved and one just can't simply go around trying to spot some kind of an "industry standard" sticker that would offer some form of quality assurance. (like Red Book, for example.) Pretty much a leap of faith everytime someone buys a CD album nowadays (unless you're really sure with the particular artiste, producer or label, whch is the case for yours truly)!

I can't stand closed phones simply because for budget I'm looking at, I cannot afford the really good stuff like the Audio Technica woods and stuff. I'm more of an open 'phones person as I can't stand the congested sound otherwise, also, I place soundstaging as one of my top requirements (as my tunes do a lot more than just the usual left-right-left-left illusions). So, without a shadow of a doubt, open 'phones for sure. I'm okay with solid state sound, definitely (sometimes I find tubes overly warm and mellow sounding, might suit older folk with their slower tunes and what not, but I need feet tapping precision to make me happy). That brings me to the issue of bass. It's perhaps the most touchy issue I've experienced with just about everything so far. Simply put, I like my bass to punch deep, tight, hard and fast. However, it should not come at the expense of being warm or mellow sounding and thus clouding up the very tricky 150 to 250 Hz bandwidth. It should be there merely to lend a presence in the tunes and give it some weight, that's all. I'll try the HD600's with the Rega Ear first and if it gets no love, I'll definitely consider the Creek.

@Mike: Thanks! That's very reassuring to hear.

Hmm....modded HD580s...sounds like an interesting prospect. I do believe in mods anyway (as I had experienced the results modding my own existing cans - Senn 555 - and beating the hell out of the 595 as well as a few others). But I'm thinking, the HD600s are not expensive (as they can be found online for cheap now), perhaps won't it be better if I got the 600s as they are and then mod them later when I feel like it? Say, for starters, getting them on balanced/DIN leads, then maybe followed by capacitor mods inside the cans, etc. Suffice to say, these mods will only make sense after I move on from my early implementations of the electronics. As for the sound signature...I'm not really too sure, but I think I'm more after a gentle but wonky-looking 'W' shape in such a manner that while I keep the airy highs that Senns are good for, I want my vocals and instruments to be closer to me. A bit like wanting to hear the acoustics of a very large concert hall while I'm on the conductor's dais. But that's more soundstage than spectrum.

Thanks for the early response! For source material, I tend to trust AIFF a lot more (ALAC and WAV didn't cut it for me, even though I use a Windows PC and FLAC is too widespread to be ignored). So yes, I do believe in and use lossless formats. But yeah...I think you guys get the drift now...we'll leave the format wars out of this thread for the time being. Until I can afford a dedicated "music box" PC, my laptop will serve as my transport for now. It is mated to an external drive for extra storage. I don't quite trust myself with DIY electronics for now... As everything electronic I make can't pass through customs without putting me in a compromising position. Portables are out of the running unless they can convince me otherwise in the "juice" department. I haven't heard a portable that can beat a desktop system (esp. for the aural characteristics I'm after). Noted about the Creek. Can you help elaborate on the sound signature of it?

Interesting thoughts...and this certainly is food for thought (loved the tomato analogy; although I'm not a fan of tomatoes, partly because I've not eaten any really excellent ones). You can't just simply argue about the quality part without bringing in the "price" bit, though. It is, afterall, THE barrier to entry for most people inside my demographic (yours truly included). Take for example my recent thread requesting for ideas on my first proper build (I doubt Chris remembers me, but I came in here some time last year and rambled quite a bit without really doing much). However, for some odd reason, it (the new thread) gets no love. Of course, I could have just happily done a social experiment and put in three more zeros at the end of my budget while keeping the sonic requirements the same. Boy...I bet it would see a sea of responses coming in. But that's the way it is! It is not that we do not want to get into this sport. But it is the associated barriers to entry that the industry imposes on itself. As such, it leaves quite a fair handful of us shut out of the party and in the cold, after being offered a small slice of the turkey from someone kind inside (but realised later by the bouncer that we can't afford the cover charge). That said, some might argue that we should be using the youthful energy to source a way out of the predicament ourselves. Fair enough. (Especially since I come from an engineering background.) After snooping around during that one year period, I know that "budget" components do exist. However, absolutely nothing is done to help proliferate (if you will) their numbers. Instead, what is done (at government level, especially) is to clamp down VERY hard on such things and impose even more ridiculous levies and taxes on them so that local "produce" can remain "competitive". To get a clearer picture on what I'm rambling about, shops don't exist for budget equipment, no one bothers much about them (online, in forums, for those who wish to seek advice) and importing such items (esp. in the EU) can possibly impose a 25736578861536.3764% inflation on their price tag. It also doesn't help when there are also no immediately obvious exit strategies/options if they (youths) find out later that this really isn't their cup of tea. (Someone please remind me to abolish these stupid laws if I ever become PM.) As a result, those who were genuinely interested to take the plunge now have to make an even larger leap of faith and commit even more precious resources (1) just to "test the waters". It's just ridiculous. Oh, and please don't say that us youths can't appreciate quality. I just let a friend of mine try on my current headphones and now he wants it off me. That's only love at first bite. So, unless something can be done about this stupid thing about price, we can all sit here and whine about dwindling numbers and the drop in quality. Or the industry (that includes the component manufacturers) can get their act together and help bring down these genuinely unneeded barriers and save us all from going the way of Lehman Brothers. Just my 2 cents... Footnote (1): A (rough) Key to "youthful" thinking about managing finances. £500 = 200 drinks at the pub = 142 days of public transport = 100 hot meals = 50 CD albums (doesn't quite happen for the "non-quality" demographic) = 20 second hand textbooks = 10 first-hand textbooks (doesn't quite happen for the "pub" demographic) = 6 weeks of rent = 1 entry-level audio setup.

A with B being a minority. NOt doscounting a DIY PC to grab/store/rip files to a NAS< though. But I have a feeling wireless or ethernet protocols will hit a ceiling soon enough if format wars and "numbers" races (eg. 32/384 - 24576 kbps) do not cease. That said, it MAY be a good thing for people like us, though.

Update: I may be getting HD600 for my choice of headphones. Any opinion on that, anyone?

@Scot: Great stuff you have there! And don't worry too much about the pictures. As it is, they already did a great job in telling the story. If only my schedule (and wallet) can allow me to hop over to have a look (and listen) for myself! @Chris: Modern bassy tunes for a start, that's pretty much very dangerous waters for these electrostats. When I have the chance I want to pop by my local store to have some time with its bigger sibling as well. But from my limited experience with these fellas, I can tell you for certain that it doesn't quite sparkle on the topside and, in confined spaces like the tiny dem room there, fast bass notes/percussions will cause the lower end to muddy up quite a bit. A track like Kajiura Yuki's "Red Rose" will quickly reveal this. Something recurring I keep hearing about these speakers is that copious amounts of room space is required for them to perform well.

If I were in your shoes, I'll first make sure I'm not getting a laptop for the sake of getting a laptop. Computers now come in all shapes and sizes these days. I'm pretty sure a small, cute-looking solution can be had if its sole purpose is to play beautiful music in your home. Do look up the Mini-ITX form factor and the CAPS/CASH list on this website for ideas!

I hope I'm not asking for the moon here....but here goes. (I hope I won't get too long-winded this time.) So it took me about a year to finally decide on getting a proper setup for myself. During which, I had been trying (whenver I can, which isn't anything near frequent) to find a sort of signature I really want. But I've finally narrowed down to this: As for the sound signature, above all else, it must do PRaT and attack very well. Soundstage wise, it has to be wide, open and airy on top and well planted at the bottom end (with deep, tight and hard-hitting, punchy bass notes) while the mids should have a fast, slightly forward character but remain expressive and should be free of interference from the lower registers that often result in any unwanted bloom. The ability to pick out low-level details in a recording would be a great great attribute as well. Technicalities: It has to be a pair of full-size, driven headphones with the source being a high-resolution capable USB DAC (strictly no other interfaces unless the cost of a good USB transport can be had with no adjustment to the budget). The headphones should be comfortable to wear over whole-day stints as well. The biggest limitation I have would be the system budget. I have an overall budget of about £500 to £600 which I can afford only to disburse in stages (i.e. headphones first, electronics later). Are there any suggested setups I can look into assuming I'm doing this from scratch?

SPDIF only for 24/192 if the said DAC in question is the Matrix.