tresaino

Turns out the 32 bit files did cause the problem. Once converted to 24 bit,with Max, the files play nicely. Thanks again Chris. Ethernet as a bottleneck for bits, who would have thought.. Roberto

I recorded vinyl this way with Vinylstudio, and 32 bit float was an option (we had a lenghty thread on this some time ago on CA). If 6144 kbps is not the limitation I may have to change some settings on the NAS. Roberto

Thank you Chris. But I thought 32bit floating files are actually 24 bit files.. does this mean that the 6144 kbps of my 32bit float/96 kHz files are too much to handle for Ethernet? If so I guess there is no choice but to make lower kbps copies of the originals before being able to play them through the server, is that correct? Roberto

Hi everyone, after having read that in Munich the company announced they'll soon also support Tidal I just bought a Moon Mind streamer. Sonically the Mind, connected to the DAC via AES/EBU, is supposed to be superior to a Macbook Pro connected via USB. However that is not my initial impression, I find results a bit less engaging and a bit more thin in the high frequencies. But I have not tweaked anything yet and am still using the standard ethernet cables to connect to the network and my Synology DS 214+ NAS. I hope there is room for improvement. What still bugs me most: the Moon apparently doesn't play my music recorded in 32bit floating. This was never an issue with iTunes or Audirvana Plus. Would anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this? Is it Moon related or NAS related? Thanks! Roberto

I listened to the Vinyl experience MP3 and to my ears it sounds ok but not more than that. But I also listened to the vinyl itself, and after repeated listening must admit that it actually sounds very good, I would guess it was sourced from a real high resolution digital master. To me this means that the vinyl version is actually by far the best one currently out there. This is not to defend vinyl, because we know the original recording was digital. The situation therefore is absurd. Bottlerocket, if my ears are right there is a way to find out how Beck sounds at 24/96 without compression. And Chris I sent you a PM with a suggestion. Roberto

Well all of this if highly interesting, problem is how many people will actually understand it? What I see when clicking for info in iTunes is '32 bit 44.1 khz'. So mister hifi music lover believes that the file he listens to contains 32 bit audio data. And then, looking at the Audio Midi Setup where the DAC is identified as “32 bit”, mister hifi music lover comes to the same conclusion. And finally, according to the Audirvana manual, at the bottom left of the screen it shows the playing track file type, native bit depth and sample rate, indicating “AIFF-C 32/44.1 khz”, and on the right it shows the DAC's current bit depth and sample rate, indicating “32/44.1 khz”. So mister hifi music lover reaches the same conclusion for the third time, and is now really reassured that what he has and listens to is 32 bit sound. Until now. I am grateful for Barry and the others in this forum for sharing their thoughts and experiences so we can dig a - single - bit deeper, but should there not be stricter rules for hardware and software companies presenting their products, bit lengths and sample rates?

Friends I'm just a normal audiophile with some grey matter left between my ears, am totally in your hands to learn more here. So Audirvana's response claiming 32 bit output is wrong? And when Hegel wrote to me saying they were not aware of any computers outputting 32 bit - so they are right? I tried to play the same '32 bit' files with Amarra (not the latest version), but there it did not work, I got only loud noise. I checked again, believe i said something inaccurate before: my RME UCX allows 24 bit and 32 bit float, but not more. Barry am impressed by your 80 bit recordings - are you recording 80 bit float? And can you hear a difference by going so high? Wow guys..

Hi Barry, thanks for taking the time to explain. I have in the meantime gained a better understanding of why 32 bit float has an advantage in terms of headroom, from you and also from here: Even if 32 bit float is still 24 bit, as you said. I have also contacted Audirvana, who kindly responded and confirmed that the Macbook Pro with Audirvana Integer mode is really capable of sending 32bit data to my DAC, because it bypasses the limitation of CoreAudio which uses 32bit float data, which is limited to 24bit precision. This would mean that the limit here is the Hegel DAC, which, like most (nearly all?) DACs, does not accept 32 bit data. However insofar not a problem as, as stated before, sonically 32 bit float files sound clearly better. So will keep recording in this format! I forgot to say that I recorded in 32/44.1, which keeps memory at still reasonable levels and facilitates a transfer to the 16bit iPod for mobile listening. I can’t hear frequencies above 15 khz any more, and my speakers don’t go linear into the 30-40 khz region, therefore agree that all the 96-192-384 hype is bollocks. From the tests I conducted so far am left with the impression that higher bit rates are much more important than higher sample rates. Could it be that the current 24 bit or DSD formats haven’t yet reached the limits of what a humble human ear is capable of hearing? Best, Roberto

Hi, and apologies if this has been discussed extensively before but I could not find the right answers. Here's the issue: I know that industry and download sites push 24 bit digital audio and, since CES this year, perhaps also DSD, but what about 32 bit? I thought about it during the summer holidays and now started digitalizing my vinyl in 32 bit float, using an RME Fireface UCX, connected via Firewire cable to a Macbook Pro, with Vinyl Studio as recording software. For playback I use Audirvana, which allows 32bit playback, as - so it seems - does iTunes. As DAC am using a Hegel HD25: it contains 32 bit converters but, the company informs me, it actually cannot receive 32 bit files. So the DAC is limited to receiving 24 bits, which are then upsampled to 32 bit. But when the DAC is connected via USB and 'seen' by the Mac, AudioMidi Setup identifies it as 32 bit, not 24 bit. Can someone explain what is going on here? Does the Mac with iTunes and Audirvana really allow 32 bit playback, or is everything automatically downsampled to 24 bit before leaving the computer? I need to add that, irrespective of what is going on technically, the improvements are evident. I have now done a few test recordings in both 24 and 32 bit float and can hear a clear improvement when playing back 32 bit songs, particularly with the harmonics of lower-level instruments and voices and in terms of image depth. 32 bit sound more three-dimensional and 'analogue-like' than 24 bit. Thanks for any explanations that you might have.

Thanks for this thread, I also have A+ now, and in my system and setup much prefer it to Amarra. My 20 year old Avalon Radians, together with a tube Jadis preamp and heavy solid state class A monoblocks, enjoy the added transparency and slam. One curtain less compared to Amarra, the sound is never on the bright side, overall a very good compromise. And the Hegel HD25 Dac accepts integer. Happy!

Hi Mitch, in experimenting with all of this I had another, scary, discovery: no digital version, whether 24/48, 24/96 or 24/192, ever matched the sound quality of the record when played back through my analogue gear. I tried this with several tracks, from Norah Jones, Herbie Hancock and Richard Thompson, and ended with Paul McCartney's wonderful 'Jenni Wren'. In each case analogue sounded much better. These results had nothing to do with the quality of the Dac used - I currently enjoy the little Hegel HD25, but experimented also with a Weiss Dac1 in the past. Same results, scary.. Cheers, Roberto

I join the club of those thanking you Mitch for the article. I am very satisfied with Vinyl Studio, it is also the cheapest among the three. A question: does it really make sense to use 24/192 when digitizing vinyl? Most of the ears of folks in their forties or fifties don't go beyond 15.000 Hz, and most of the high end phono cartridges and speakers on the market loose linearity beyond 20.000 Hz. I can hear differences between 16 and 24 bit recordings (although not always). I also compared several 24/96 with 24/48 recordings of some of my audiophile vinyl, played through Amarra, and could not consistently hear a difference, certainly not in the high frequencies/airiness domains. This is why 24/48 in my humble view is sufficient. BTW, I don't know why, but home digitized vinyls sound better than same-resolution downloads.

The only tool that I miss in Vinyl Studio is the possibility to record 2 audio files at the same time, one in high resolution, the other in 16/44.1. Everything else is spectacularly easy with Vinyl Studio. Is there any way to make a 16/44.1 copy from a 24/96 file AFTER it has been recorded? I understand for this it may be better to record in 24/88.2, is this still correct or perhaps no longer an issue? Thanks.

thanks! I already digitized a couple of albums, it does indeed work great and really is easy to use, love it!

The problem for many of us audiophiles is that we are not as computer knowledgeable as many of you are on this site. My big thanks to Mitch for writing this up, was long overdue, and to ogs for the link to Vinyl Studio. I just bought it, and at first glance VS is MUCH simpler to use than Audacity, which I'm sure is great but is more complex and has too many things that I will never need. Bye bye also to Pure Vinyl, it crashed so many times over the last two years that I eventually got fed up.