yanoush

Thought I'd revisit this thread in case it helps anyone out there grappling with getting a great sound from a PC running Windows 7. I have subsequently achieved as good or better than the excellent sound quality I had using Windows XP. How? Using J.River Media Center 15 (no earlier JRMC version) via Wasapi Event Style (I'm not using a USB DAC), with all DSP turned off. No doubt there will be those who disagree but, for what it's worth, this works wonderfully for me. Cheers!

Thanks again for taking an interest One and a half. I have noted your support for Windows 7. I also looked hard for something useful in the links. And yes, I have paid attention to setting up my equipment properly, thanks. You're right, drivers present a variable and it would be helpful to know more about exactly what they were doing. But where there is only one 'correct' driver, we don't have a choice other than to inadvertently use an 'incorrect' one. Now, can anyone help with the main point of the thread? It's laid out pretty clearly above and Peter and Danny and I, at least, are interested in relevant contributions. It would be great to get some help with more detail of what exactly happens to the audio data stream INSIDE the computer to try to home in on why we hear the clear differences we do, which so far have not been explained. Thanks.

Thanks for your comments One and a half. This thread is more to do with why, for example, Wasapi, Asio and KS in Foobar/W7 sound different and how we can possibly authenticate best practice in computer audio when there are clearly significant unknown variables. The link here is closer to what I was getting at as regards trying to throw some light on what might be responsible, but we need something more detailed and up-to-date: http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/index.html Anyone can search the web for answers to these kinds of questions about what makes for consistently good computer audio and find little more than the same bit perfect creed trotted out. Listening tests reveal this to be only part of the picture. There will always be differences in taste, of course, but as far as I am concerned the failure of the sound in W7 to match the quality of what I had in XP is a demonstrable fact. Nothing can sound any good without getting the source right. The nuances may not matter so much in the mass market but if the top end wants credibility these vagaries surely have to be nailed. I don't see any reason for not getting a consistently great sound out of W7. It's going to take more than selecting Wasapi though, or KS.

I suppose what we need next is something like annotated block diagrams showing the exact paths of the audio data streams from the player to the sound card under Wasapi, Asio and KS, with clear explanations of the technical differences. My understanding is that using KS cuts out an API layer by accessing the sound card driver kernel module directly, but I'd be the first to admit I don't really know what that means. Can anyone help?

Many thanks for your reply Peter. I read the link with interest and welcome the news that there are people out there digging deeper. I was a little bit disappointed at the lack of response and suppose my original post was probably too general. I'm sure everyone is trying to get the best sound out of W7 in their own circumstances. I probably also should have mentioned that I'd already tried all the alternative players I could think of, including Media Monkey, cPlay, Songbird, WMP, and XXHE. In my system, and to my ears (I recognise this will not necessarily be true for others), the best results were unambiguously with Foobar and JRMC. My problem with all this is that listening tests reveal there is clearly more going on in a PC that affects the sound quality than is generally presented as the key determining factors. Add in the effect of the inevitable tuning of a system to the room and the ears and preferences of the listener and it is impossible to avoid a degree of tail-chasing in the search for improvement. This means the industry needs to be laying down some attested guidelines or it's a rich market for snake oil. Just read the stuff online about jitter and bit perfection from people who haven't a clue why Media Monkey and Foobar sound different (or in some cases deny it's possible - come on guys, next you'll be saying homeopathy doesn't work :-). I'd like to think the community responsible for massively improving the sound quality using XP will drive rapid improvement using W7, which is after all a much better OS for embracing the full opportunities of a networked world. As it stands, the sound quality is disappointing and I think failure to address this will risk software development drifting away from Windows permanently. Maybe some of those brilliant folk would like to contribute their thoughts here. I hope so. Either way, a happy New Year to everyone.

I've been reading Computer Audiophile for some time and thought it about time I said hello. So, first things first, thanks Chris for a terrific site. I've been prompted to post by making the move from XP to W7. In brief, after much experimentation I had achieved a very good sound from XP with Foobar/Asio. I work from home and the considerable benefits of W7 over XP (wireless networking anyone?) mean I shall not be going back or dual-booting. The problem is I haven't yet quite matched the sound I had. I've tried experiments with many players (yes, I know it shouldn't make a difference but try convincing my ears) and different settings. The best result I have found so far is using JRMC or Foobar with Wasapi but I am certain it could be better. This is not about the capability of the PC, which has a fast dual core processor and loads of RAM etc. I think it's to do with the optimal way of handling the audio signal, and experience suggests there's a lot more to that than selecting Wasapi and sitting back in a glow of bit-perfection. Does anyone have any insights into getting the very best sound out of W7? P.S. Thought I'd mention while writing that if anyone has found their optical drive doesn't like some commercial CDs (distorted music can be heard behind a wall of 'static') you may not be going mad. Check if you have a TSST Corp SH-S223B. In my case, two of these drives had trouble with most of my CDs produced by Time Warner. Strange but true. Solved by changing to a different drive, as it happens a Sony Optiarc AD-5240S.