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davehg

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  1. Earlier I expressed a preference for Ethernet over optical connections for my Lumin X1. A user suggested I swap the Trendnet SFP modules for some pricier Finnisar SFP modules ($12 vs $55 ea). swapped the Finnisar in and whatta you know - they sound much better. The glare and glassiness are gone now, much smoother sounding but with all the detail. so I’m joining Team Optical now! The SFP modules I bought were Finnisar FTLF1318P3BTL
  2. I went back and forth comparing the optical to the Ethernet connection (using a Pangea Ethernet cable). While running direct from the modem to the SFP switch sounded better, I still come back to preferring Ethernet cable. Less glare and sibants. Maybe an LPS on the SFP switch might help?
  3. Well this is fun - I had disconnected the optical switch, finding I preferred Ethernet. I purchased an upgrade cat6 cable, but didn’t really hear a difference over stock Cat6. Just for fun, I tried listening to the optical connection one more time. However - instead of plugging the optical switch into the 8 port switch that was itself wired via cat 6 to my modem, wired the modem (using the upgraded Ethernet cable) straight into the optical switch. I had been using an 8 port switch in between as I used the switch to send Ethernet to other devices in my room, like my TV and game console and AV receiver. Wiring direct from modem to optical switch sounded much better and way less sibilant. By contrast, going from the router through a switch then out to the optical switch then into the X1 sounded harsher and more sibilant. I need to A/B with the Ethernet connector from the modem direct to the X1 to be sure the optical is still superior, but this is progress.
  4. That’s what I said when I stopped into a demo of the T2 (from the D2) and most recently of the X1. Leave your wallet at home :)
  5. Interesting- I recently upgraded from the T2 to the X1 (Peter recently linked to my impressions a few posts back). The X1 is stellar - not that the T2 was a slouch. The X1 has really raised the level of fidelity in my system such that I’m no longer preferring vinyl playback across the board. I had a listen to the DCS Bartok (non apex) which was also stellar, and I heard in the X1 the things that also impressed me in the Bartok. The higher price of the Bartok plus my very positive long term experiences with Lumin (or should I say, Peter) made the decision quite easy to purchase the Lumin. I soon purchased the Trendnet SFP switch recommended by Lumin along with two TrendNet SFP single mode modules. Given the general high praise for SFP on the forums, I was surprised that I greatly preferred Ethernet - it wasn’t even close. Compared to standard Ethernet (no fancy CAT6 cables or audiophile switches), the SFP setup using the Trendnet switch and modules and a fiber optical cable from Fibercables sounded brighter and more sibilant with digital glare (descriptions which I don’t really associate with the X1). I suspected either the switching power supply for the SFP switch might be to blame, or the SFP module. Not sure if these require burn in/break in. I use a Niagara 1200 and high end power cord for the X1, and I have a somewhat fancier Ethernet cable en route to test. I looked at the tech specs and I can’t tell if the TrenNet SFP module is laser diode or LED. Here’s the manufacture details https://www.trendnet.com/products/sfp-transceiver/sfp-single-mode-lc-module-10km-TEG-MGBS10_4-v4 How can you tell which SFP modules are laser? And is my switch compatible with either type? Willing to test a different SFP module if there is a chance mine aren’t up to snuff.
  6. I held out as long as I could, but the Z1 is off to a new owner. It was relegated to the second system (no slouch - Leben 600x powering Graham Chartwell LS3/5a speakers). I had hoped to migrate my 300 cd collection over but the transfer speeds once again quickly tested my patience. I was trying to see If I could somehow hack by using a Roon capable USB Streaming DAC and having the Sony feed it, but it’s not meant to be. I was going to pick up another Lumin T2 and move the Sony’s music files onto my Roon Nucleus’s 1tb drive, but I made the mistake of listening to a Lumin X1 which was offered as a demo at an unbeatable price. Wow - now I get why people pay $10k+ for a top notch music streamer (also listened to the DCS Bartok too - another impressive unit but also silly money). In my prior setup, vinyl always bead the Sony for sound quality but comparing the Lumin X1, it’s a tossup. The good news was the dealer was ok taking the Sony in trade and made a good, market correct offer, so the decision was pretty easy. Before I packed it up, I did one final listen comparing the T2 to the Sony. On Redbook, the T2 handily beats the Sony when upsampling to DSD 128. On higher res files I still preferred the T2 but the Sony put up a better fight. The T2 succeeded in revealing more depth and presence and they were equal in top end detail. This was in balanced output mode, and using RCAs the Sony is let down. It was an interesting few years with the Sony and I still marvel at the build quality for the price. Trade in value was about 50% of what I paid, so not a bad depreciation. See you in the Lumin forums…
  7. I’m suddenly finding myself listening to the Sony tonight. I gifted my headphone system to my son, and it works best with a balanced source, so I kept the Sony for him. Importing music into this thing is so 90s, but it does sound good....a week later when the files are finally transferred. I traded my Lumin D2 in for a T2. It sounds spectacular- bests the Sony handily as it should for 2x the cost. But every once in a great while I’ll visit him in his room and listen to the Sony and remind myself why I bought it. And dream about what could’ve been. I really hope Sony supports Spotify hi Rez.
  8. I was in the same boat. I ended up with a D2 and Sbooster power supply which I felt was the right choice. The upgrade to the T2 was more significant in my opinion.
  9. I finally took Peter’s recommendation on moving from my Sbooster powered D2 to a stock T2. The T2 is currently on endless loop playback to burn in, but in just the first few days I could hear it was a distinct improvement. I A/B’d a stock D2 against a stock T2 and it was no contest - the T2 had quite significant improvements. My dealer offered a generous trade in on the D2, so it was a no-brainer. I thought about keeping the Sbooster to try on the T2, but what I was hearing with the stock PS was plenty food, so for now I’m staying stock (plus nice to leave a new unit unmodified. I’ve done a significant system upgrade the past year, moving to DeVore Nines, a gorgeous Leben CS600x, and a Manley Chinook and Hana SL combo for my VPI Prime. The D2, as good as it was, was outclassed and swapping the T2 in, the digital can now keep pace.
  10. So did anyone else see the article where Spotify will offer at least CD quality streaming, as early as end of year? Does this mean that the Sony HAPZ1ES might actually support at least a CD quality streaming service? That might prevent me from listing my Sony for sale, as my son likes Spotify.
  11. Richard, thanks for the perspective on the PS Audio. It confirms my decision not to listen to it, because I would probably fall in love with the sound and justify increasing my budget to acquire it! I have the means, but my budget is focused on air cooled car projects these days, and I don’t have enough time to listen to music to mentally justify the added expense. But I know if I listen to it, my reaction would likely change. Both Chord and PS Audio are doing some fascinating things with FPGA technology, to the point that a good case can be made to spend extra because of the increasing capability to update software. Roon is also compelling, not just for its indexing, search/discovery, but its technical DSP capabilities including room correction, DSD upsampling and filtering, and headphone equalization (they support Audeze ‘s digital equalization). on the music issue and supporting artists: music labels and publishers (via performing rights collection) eat up approx 70% of a music streaming services income. The rest is left to pay for technical infrastructure, headcount, marketing etc. Whether musicians are receiving a fair share from their labels and publishers is another matter. Album sales are so low these days that a Billboard top 10 artist need only sell relatively small numbers to qualify. The days of an artist selling 1 million or more downloads or physical copies are probably in the rear view mirror However, views on YouTube and streams on Spotify are in the millions or hundreds of millions in some cases. The upside to artists is a longer term revenue stream and not dealing with the impact of used CD sales, as there is no legal market for resale of downloads. is the streaming model sustainable? I think only a small number (maybe 3-4) can make it long term. But the damage to downloads and physical sales is done. So a music hardware device that is targeted towards a small portion of high end audio enthusiasts is already a niche player, by the numbers. If that device won’t also stream high Rez files, I think it is like the CD or SACD devices. A niche within a niche. None of that reality means the Sony Z1 is a bad sounding player, but it does tell me and other owners that I should stop holding my breath, and look elsewhere for a device that caters to the market we now enjoy today. Here is a good article on the state of the streaming business: https://musicindustryblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/13/mid-year-2018-streaming-market-shares/ Tidal, Qobuz, and Deezer likely have about 2-4% each of the 31% of “other” music streaming services. None of the giants have high Rez, and my friends within Spotify have signaled to me that the market doesn’t justify catering to the relatively small number of audiophiles vs devoting resources to growing their user base amongst the general public. Trust me, I’ve pestered them about high rez support, even just Redbook. That tells me Tidal or Qobuz are the short term safest bests for audiophiles. BTW, my other informed guess is that without the headphone enthusiast, who are driving the sales numbers in high end audio and are the likely largest group of digital music servers and DACs, high end audio would be in a tougher state. Those buyers demand hi Rez streaming capability. So if there is a Z2 on the horizon, it would likely need the following to be relevant in addition to current capabilities: - DSD, and potentially MQA (Qobuz renders MQA as a nice to have, not need to have IMHO) - Digital output, SPDIF and USB digital out (AES would be nice to have) - native support for Tidal, Qobuz (challenge is whether they need to be MQA compliant which means technical changes and licensing fees) - Roon capable. Personally for me me this has become a need to have, not a nice to have. This also might let them offload the MQA decoding to Roon, and while they would not be fully compliant with MQA rendering, they would be able to process PCM files at 24/96. They could then let Roon upsample to DSD with its benefits. Imagine a Sony Z2 music streamer, with an option to have SSD or external USB drive storage, and with the above features. If that sounds interesting, the Lumin D2 is your device (minus internal storage) at $2300. It has only BNC SPDIF output only which is a drawback, but it does output DSD. not to completely rathole, but there is a healthy debate now about whether USB is better than SPDIF for digital out.USB proponents mention no to low jitter artifacts due to clocks and asynchronous implementation (thanks Gordon Rankin of Wavelength, who must be getting wealthy on licensing fees). But USB introduces electrical noise, especially when used with devices that implement poorly designed switching power supplies. Even some hardcore Lumin owners have modded their D2s using third party linear power supplies. Just like I did with my Squeezebox 15 years ago. I am looking into this relatively cheap upgrade.Sony is known for using well constructed power supplies, so it would be extra fun to see what they could do with a one box unit.
  12. I think all of you are making my point clearer. if you have the Sony already and you want to experience Tidal or Qobuz (sorry but low res Spotify don’t count), you’re going to have to spend some money and add another box, another set of cables, and then suddenly you are going to this another $1k min. And then say you make the mistake of trying Roon and quickly fall in love with its features. That’s another box and mo money. That was my predicament. If you’re new to the game you don’t bother with the Sony, because of the above. switching gears, how is the PS Audio over the Sony’s DAC? I listened to a Chord Qutest and liked it. I read about the PS Audio and was interested until I saw the price, which was 2x my budget. If I had heard it I expect I’d be tempted.
  13. Let’s be clear: if the Sony had gone out of production, I’d feel the same as you. But unlike my 14 year old Musical Fidelity TriVista and my modified Squeezebox, which collectively cost about $3300 and bested the Sony on Redbook but couldn’t play high Rez or DSD, the Sony is still current. It has to compete with products like the Lumin at $2300, which don’t require Roon or Tidal or Qobuz to operate but are better because they support it, and which to my ears sound better than the Sony on Redbook (hi Rez is still unclear as I didn’t have any such files on a USB or hard drive handy to test on the Lumin). So, no, products like the Lumin D2 dont actually cost a lot more, nor does any other number of competing devices that offer more features than the Sony and which also retail for around $2k. Roon does add to the cost but Roon is not necessary to use the Lumin or other devices. It is just highly desirable and makes those products that much better with great featur3s. If you fall in love with Roon features as I have, the Sony ceases to be in contention because it won’t support Roon. Or Tidal. Or Qobuz. Or Deezer....And that is a real shame. Like Stanley Kowalski, it coulda been a contender. Can the Sony compete today, at its current price, with its lack of support for streaming services? Not in this marketplace. Four years ago, before the massive shift in the music industry towards streaming music services (and before the availability of high Rez streaming services), Sony was a real contender. But the market is not buying physical high Rez media or downloads in any meaningful numbers...check the industry stats. Streaming services are no longer the future, they are the present. The HAPZ1ES has become a niche player at best. i don’t think that technically Sony could support MQA without a hardware upgrade, making the notion of supporting Tidal much less realistic. But I do think it could support Qobuz, Deezer, and other streaming services which offer redbook or higher quality, merely via a software update. Please dont one think I am denigrating the virtues of the Sony. It was great for its time and with a little software update support it could enjoy a longer shelf life. Alas....
  14. So I ran a few listening experiments. I listened to: Lumin/Roon vs Sony on Redbook. Both upsampled as much as their relevant tech would permit. Lumin/Roon streaming 24/96 and 24/192 vs Sony (same resolution). On the Lumin, source was always Tidal or Qobuz, and upsampled to DSD 64 in Roon before being handed off to Lumin. On Sony, everything was FLAC or WAV or high res native files stored locally. Both were run via their balanced inputs into the Woo WA22 using Cardas Nuetral Reference, and using Cardas Golden Ref AC cables. Focal Clear headphones run using balanced outputs, for a fully balanced system. On Redbook, with every file, the Lumin/Roon combo produced a warmer and more nuanced richer sound, with better detail. The Sony had a more neutral slightly clinical sound. Both were very enjoyable, but my ears easily preferred the Lumin/Roon combo. More bounce, energy and groove. On high res files, the results varied. Sometimes the Sony seemed more dynamic and quick-whereas the Lumin was more relaxed. The bass on the Sony May have felt a bit tighter, but the Lumin/Roon combo often had more body. The contest was far closer than the comparison on Redbook. i don’t have high res files or DSD stored on the Roon Nucleus SSD drive yet, so a high res comparison will have to wait, and I can’t rule out the impact of MQA or streaming vs local files. Qobuz hi res would be the better comparison since you are streaming 24/96 files without MQA impacting any sound. if I were shopping the Lumin vs the Sony, I’d have to opt for the Lumin due to the Redbook sound quality. If i had a larger high res DSD collection, I’d need to spend more time evaluating. In all situations the Roon app and data and search experience was far superior. I often found myself ona detour, following cover versions or getting lost down a rabbit hole of music discovery. On the Sony, the app experience was nothing more or less than selecting and playback of music I owned. i can’t go backwards after two months of Roon experience. I’ve listened to more music using Roon in two months than in the preceding 12 months and discovered so many new artists and songs along the way. listening to Sufjan Stevens “ Casmir Pulaski Day” all the way through on the Lumin/Roon, I was moved to near tears in a powerful way. This song was rendered so beautifully, and the lyrics so tender and powerful, it caught me by surprise. Roon let me understand the lyrics ina way only reading an album cover could. The song, about the love and the loss and the powerlessness of one confronting cancer...well, if you’ve experienced that you are halfway through a box of tissues already.
  15. Thanks WKLIE. I did that and the sound quality improved to my ears. I’ve spent a week enjoying the Lumin and Roon. I am thrilled with integration of both Tidal and Qobuz and the sound quality of both services via the Lumin is fantastic. I am most thrilled with Roon - it has dramatically increased my music enjoyment, as has access to high Rez files from both Tidal and Qobuz in one handy app. I am spending easily triple the time enjoying music since these purchases. Admittedly I’ve paid more than the Sony - nearly double if you count the Nucleus, the Lumin, and the lifetime Roon subscription. But so far extremely pleased with the results. I need to find a moment to compare the Sony with my new setup to see what sound quality differences I hear between the two. The Sony was always detailed and musical, and the high res files always dynamic. The Lumin is warm, very analog like (when upsampling to DSD which I can do with any files), and the detail I am hearing on high res files via Tidal/Qobuz is wonderful. So what to do with the Sony?
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