feelingears

Speculation: One could imagine streaming into memory for the purposes of buffering and reclocking, etc. but then network activity and playback activity would happen simultaneously and that more or less defeats the purpose of memory playback as I understand it. Nobody is going to wait a few minutes for their streams to load first before playback either, I'd guess.

Hi, @HifiVoice I'm curious if you'd share your impressions of what was the better sounding stream, and what the server software was for the stream, please?

Stefano, why would Minimserver have a sound? I don't know but I hear differences in software and others do to. Is it network traffic as JPlay suggests? Someone on a techy forum measured traffic and correlated it with his own impressions: lower traffic, better sound. But really, I am interested in IF things sound different/better, less so "why" because "logic" suggests it shouldn't. I am not interested in getting into logic when most of us are not electrical engineers with specific experience in digital noise, so if you don't hear differences, AWESOME - enjoy! And all the same, thanks for your comments, turns out yes YOU were CORRECT, my LMS active plugins page shows the UPnP checked. And interesting to me that I have not found UPnP Audirvana compelling enough to keep, preferring JPlay+LMS. The other variable here is that I'm mostly Redbook (with some purchased hi-res), having tried local upsampling and not having found the upsampling juice to be worth the squeeze (another controversy, sigh). So I'm with Fourlegs who finds LMS+JPlay better. So maybe in the next few weeks I'll switch back over to Minimserver because I enjoy the exploration as part of my enjoyment of music, assuming the Minimserver config can hold my interest in both attentive and indirect listening. So far I am liking LMS. You asked: My NAS and EtherRegen/LPS-1.2 are wired to an ASUS mesh network. From the Uptone EtherRegen/LPS-1.2, the end point is the Volumio Rivo w/ Uptone JS-2. DAC is downstream. Thanks again, I appreciate you sharing the info to straighten me out.

I have only done casual comparisons because I’m lazy in this regard (much more methodical with easy tests of things like cables), but I think I find LMS sound better than Minimserver. This impression goes back to when I had a microRendu and now with a Volumio Rivo. JPlay with LMS is better than Volumio too. I use LMS on my Synology and JPlay is also functionally more stable with that than Minimserver. Someone posted about time scrubber being out of sync…I feel like I get this with UPnP all the time (and hate it). Is LMS different than UPnP? And finally, is there some network behavior that might influence sound quality? Less activity perhaps? I just know that in the long run, I find my system emotionally engaging and something I want to listen to when things are working. I can tell when I make a change and I lose interest in sitting down for dedicated listening. JPlay with LMS is engaging. Other set ups have not resulted in engagement for me. Anyway, just suggesting that LMS may be worth trying for sound quality - many thanks to the people keeping LMS alive and reporting their impressions vs other protocols (if that is the correct term).

Sorry, there was so little interest I forgot to mark this as sold. Shame these guys didn’t make it thru the pandemic disruption.

[EDIT]: I get a similar error about "renderer busy" or something, using NAS/LMS and a Rivo streamer. I find that I just need to tap the song I wish to play a second time and things sort themselves out. A similar situation is when I change my mind and start another track, the previous track or next track begins playing and I have to stop that track then start the new track again. UPnP is funny stuff! LOL What is more annoying is when playback somehow continues after I stop it, and I effectively lose control of the playback. I can't see what's playing, and I can't stop it until I stumble upon the taps that cause playback to stop. Whatevs. Not sure if it's Jplay or UPnP but in general UPnP is less usable than iTunes (seriously) which largely just works (I stop, start, change my mind, whatever, it responds). But, Jplay does sound better so I use it. I appreciate the effort since I don't have an Aurender yet! Anyway, hope this might help - I just tap the song again after the error message goes away, and then playback begins.

I get this error as well using NAS/LMS and a Rivo streamer. I find that I just need to tap the song I wish to play a second time and things sort themselves out. A similar situation is when I change my mind and start another track, the previous track or next track begins playing and I have to stop that track then start the new track again. UPnP is funny stuff! LOL What is more annoying is when playback somehow continues after I stop it, and I effectively lose control of the playback. I can't see what's playing, and I can't stop it until I stumble upon the taps that cause playback to stop. Whatevs. Not sure if it's Jplay or UPnP but in general UPnP is less usable than iTunes (seriously) which largely just works (I stop, start, change my mind, whatever, it responds). But, Jplay does sound better so I use it. I appreciate the effort since I don't have an Aurender yet! Anyway, hope this might help - I just tap the song again after the error message goes away.

I will just say I have Gaia IIIs on hardwood floors and I consider them essential to getting the best from my speakers for my ears. Tested them against spikes, etc. and all that. But I am really posting here to say they are not designed to work at an angle: The bottoms are suction cup-ish so if they're not flat, they're not set up as designed. Additionally, and I don't know why (nor do I really care to be honest), they instruct you to position the Gaias with the logos of each foot facing the same direction together Could they "work" at an angle? Sure, why not? And even sub-optimally they might be great. I can see why people might like or need spikes but in my room/floor/gear, that sound is not for me; I find it technically interesting but musically uninvolving. Anyway, just sharing my bias on how this crazy phenomenon called the sound of music affects me, myself, and I. (Fortunately in this industry, n > 1) Good luck! 😀

I have this same issue with the Rivo streamer (by Volumio). I think the answer really is buck up and buy a "real" kilo-buck streamer; aka, Aurender, Auralic, Antipodes, Innuos, etc. At least the former come w/ in-house software, but as one who worked in software, I am both impressed and unsure those companies can continue to deliver both high quality hardware and software in today's marketplace. (OTOH, AI should begin to help with driving the cost and maintenance of the software down if it hasn't already, giving them some useful margin.) Maybe one more try with the new Denafrips Arce streamer, but I wish JPLAY well because I'm not a fan of Volumio either, and hope there is a solution to this syncing issue. This out of sync thing seems to be a kind of UPnP attribute. iTunes has spoiled me - it mostly just works (and actually sounds damn good for Red Book) and is thus more family friendly. I also got Logitech Media Server (LMS) running again on my NAS and will test JPLAY with that.

Just posting to say thanks for this context - LMS seems to stand the sound quality test of time, for those who care to fuss about such matters. I wish I could get JPlay to play better but these posts seem to suggest it's fundamentally UPnP and Minimserver. I'm referring to file access more than sound quality, but my experience with LMS a while back suggested it was the best sounding of the various servers I auditioned at the time (I don't recall all of them now).

+1 vote for local > streaming

@JoshM I don't recall if I've posted fully about a DAC comparison done by myself and a friend during Covid, so I can't link to anything. But, I mention it because you might be interested in giving the Denafrips Pontus II (not the 12th Annie version) an audition, if only as a point of reference as it seems to have won the ears of many online. My friend and I tried the Chord Qutest vs Pontus II vs Yggy OG. And I eventually got a LiM as well as would go so far as to say, it's a very different sound than the Yggy OG - enough to be considered a different DAC altogether. And yes, considerably better than OG (which has its appealing attributes but ultimately falls short of the LiM, for me). The Denafrips sound perhaps comes in part due to the lack of output stage in the Pontus DAC. I speculate that this results in the DAC's uncanny ability to render ritardando like I've not heard in any DAC, let alone digital playback in general (of course I've not heard everything out there). Still, the Pontus came across for me as a bit too rounded or polite compared to the Yggy and for my taste in music and sound, the Yggy LiM is the way to go (especially with the Shunyata Delta XC power cord, incidentally).

Art is weird like this, whether it's music or imagery or whatever. I'd think it's this way for most all songwriters: the hits are hits, but there are always random songs that speak deeply to someone, and maybe only a few ones. My favorite songs always seem to be the less popular ones, and generally for electric music I prefer the recording to a live show where the venue might not be so great, or the sound person isn't so great, or it's an off-night, or a million other reasons the recording is better, for me. Who knows why. (It's the "hard problem of consciousness.") That said, since Tears for Fears gets some love here, their recent show in Seattle was fantastic and the sound was unbelievably great! And live vs recording? Hearing the audience sing along to Head Over Heels...just brought tears to my eyes, certainly don't get that at home! lol Great interview and insight all the same, thank you Josh and thank you Gary–please keep writing those weird songs (along with the hits) for weirdos like me.

No longer timely nor relevant, but slightly relevant: I just heard Audeze headphones (TOTL models) for the first time and dang, they're almost like listening to speakers, but with the benefit of headphone details! Okay, first time in my life I've felt that way about headphones! So I stand corrected too: maybe headphones could open one's mind (and wallet) to speaker systems. Also the reverse - I may have to get some Audeze cans...

Clockmeister, Thanks for the extra detail and color commentary! I appreciate learning the perspective and context from which you're coming from because absolutely, one person's peach is another's, um, ploop. (Not that it matters, but I just read impressions of some rooms at the Pacific Audio Show here near Seattle. Wow, the reviewer's "most beautiful, lushest, hypnotic" was my worst or second worst-sounding room...and then there were a couple rooms we did agree on. Crazy hobby, this.) DACs...thanks for that tidbit, and I have felt a tug in your direction (the past). I have been finding that there's a careful balance between "past" technological approaches versus/combined with modern noise "aware" designs and implementations. Please don't let your digital testing fetish become too confident in its hypothesizing–words can't convey some of the things I hear (and love), and perhaps that's partly why this hobby is so wacky. Maybe you will help coin new expressions or words to bridge these sonic chasms, ha ha.