CR250

"You find me that scenario, backed by bias controlled evaluation, then there indeed WILL be something to talk about." Unless I didn't understand your reply, I suggested timbre. "I did indeed check the specs: The Telegartner terminations are 6a only. Period/End of Story/Game Over." I checked again. AQ terminators are rated for CAT 7 and are backwards compatible with 6a. I know you don't like AQ, but do you really think they would go through the trouble of building a CAT 7 cable, only to put a 6 connector on it? You'll say yes, so you don't have to bother answering that one. "Find me the 'Scientists' that disagree." Bill Lowe, Matthew Bond and Steve Nugent. "Then it will be measurable." I agree. "I have $$ says you can't tell the difference with a Quality DAC, Computer, Display and affordable USB(Belkin), Ethernet(BJC), HDMI (BJC) when you don't know what is in circuit." You may be right. Affordable doesn't mean poor quality. For example I have some mid line AQ cables that outperform cables that cost 2-3 time more.

Then show me how to do it. If you can show me how to really measure timbre, I have no problem with being wrong. If I start by playing a recording of an acoustic instrument on my system (piano, violin, trumpet, ....), what's the actual process to measure timbre?

If you are looking to do a test like that, it would make more sense to use your current source. If you put the Rotel in, you won't know if the difference is due to eliminating the wireless, or the CD player itself.

"And make no mistake they are all ordering from real wire makers and doing assembly." That's not true. There's plenty of designs that must be made in house. Here's a few. Nordost Flatline - They had to custom build machines and start from scratch. TARA RSC - You can't go out and buy rsc conductors. JPS - The aluminum alloy they use is custom. Cerious Technology - Custom made liquid ceramic conductors Cardas Siltech/Crystal - copper, silver, gold alloy Harmonic Tech - custom silver/copper alloy. I Can list more if you want. Also, I'm not recommending these cables. They're just factual examples.

If you're confused, I would suggest you hold off on buying anything until you can get a demo. The more you spend, the bigger the risk. But if I had to guess, I think you'll notice a bigger difference going from your Emotiva to a high quality 2 channel pre, than you did going from the Denon to the Emotiva.

I meant to thank you for putting me on your list. As to me loosing an argument, you really can't make that claim. Every single time I challenge one of your statements, you run like Forest Gump.

"*Please note I have no post here that ever said that all cables 'sound the same'. If there is a change then there is a way to measure for it. For you to PROVE there is a change when the technical measurements fail (according to you) then you need to go blind and ears only as a calibration measure." I agree. But what happens if there's a real difference and we don't know how to measure it? Are we supposed to pretend that it doesn’t exist? That's not very scientific. Are you suggesting something like timbre doesn’t exist because we can't measure it? "They don't have to be. But some CHOOSE to be. AudioQuest/Bill Low are perfect examples." CAT6 cables advertised as CAT7 - AQ cables are CAT 7. Check the specs if you don't believe it. "Skin effect at audio frequencies" - Some scientists would agree, and some would disagree. "Dielectric Bias Charging" - It works. I have at least 10 pairs. I disconnected the DBS on 1 pair and let the cable sit for a while, and then compared it to the same exact cable with with the DBS connected. You can easily hear a difference. "Audibility of digital cables" - Its easy to hear the differences in those things. "Directionality of cables as it pertains to how the copper is drawn (especially egregious in HDMI and Ethernet Cables" - Honestly, I'm not sure on that one. Never thought to look into it.

Don't read too much into my response. I know they are an honest company and have a good reputation. My point was, people that don't like high end cables, for whatever reason, seem to buy from BJC for emotional reasons in addition to having good cables at a low price. I just see no reason why a company that sells more expensive cables has to be dishonest in some way, just because of price. We all have to make our own decisions. You can spend your money any way you wish, and its no ones business but your own.

Thanks. Great answer.

There's really no point in continuing because this is all emotional for you. You're one of those people that has an extreme dislike for the cable industry, regardless of whether the cables live up to the claims, or not. You're just picking and choosing what issues that you feel are relevant and won't listen to anything else. There's more to cables than what you consider important. Going over the issues would be useless because you wouldn't listen to reason.

One thing you're missing is not considering the analog section of the dac's. That has just as much effect on SQ as the digital portion. You may have 2 dacs that use the same dac chip, but they may sound completely different due to the design of the analog stage. I'm familiar with your speakers. I used to have the 802's myself. I think you have far more to be gained by improving your amp/preamp than a dac. HT gear just doesn't cut it for 2 channel listening with his res speakers. If you bought a really nice integrated amp with a HT bypass and use the Oppo as a source, it wouldn't be so much of an upgrade, as it would be a transformation in how good your system sounds. Upgrade the dac later on. No only that, you'll hear more of what a new dac can do when you have a good 2ch system in place first.

"What do you mean by 'probably work OK'? They work to spec." It means that I'm not trashing them. But until I use a product myself, its probably, not definitely. "All anyone need know about a cable is to measure the output of some device and then plug a cable in and measure the output again. The least amount of harm done is the cable to go after." That's an assumption on your part. You don't know my needs, or anyone else's. That's not the only way you can measure a cable. "BJC certainly provides validation but 'emotional support'? That's a stretch." Really? Before Blue Jeans cable, no one was going out and buying Belden and Canare cable, and boasting about how good they are, godsend, breath of fresh air, etc......? Blue Jeans has enough followers where its OK to admit using them. Notice how no one ever says I bought Belden cable? They bought Blue Jeans cable. Its not a brand, its an image. "BJC takes cabling and terminates in house. The way the conduct their business is transparent. I like dealing with honest brokers. So they 'assemble cables'." Terminating cables is not assembling cables. They buy assembled cables and put the connectors on them. There's a big difference. Not only that, how does terminating cables make them honest and transparent? What's your definition of an honest broker? If I bought some entry level AQ or Kimber bulk cables from Cable Company and had them terminate them for me, why would they be any less honest or transparent than Blue Jeans? "My 'validated CAT6' cables demonstratively outperform cables costing 28 times more. That's not emotional, just common rational sense." Assuming that's true, I agree. "Belden, Canare, Mogami, Liberty, GepCo etc.. put a lot of engineering effort into their designs. They throw away more scrap from production in any given month than the boutique outfits sell in a year." I was debating whether I should reply to that one. Why is that relevant? Better yet, how would you even know that? To me, it looks like an emotional response.

These are not generic items. "how is the sound quality compare with USB or wifi itself?" What make and model USB or wifi product are you referring to?

Someone just started a thread that directs you to take a hearing test over the internet. Is it a valid test? I would think you need to have an exact volume setting, along with equipment that is known to have the required fidelity to properly play the test.

I was being serious. I don't like SR cables myself, but I won't bash them for false claims just because everyone else does.