louisjames

Hi Jimmy, I'm specifically referring to the sound of the Gungnir I currently have and in my system. I'm arranging with a friend to try out his Yggy now that he's upped his rig yet again to an even more expensive DAC. Btw, love your big bottom post. Back in the day the local community college had a skiing class that would arrange trips to Vernon Valley / Great Gorge in New Jersey. While certainly not the end all be all of ski places and most times you only had granular, man made snow to ski on, the real attraction was the many visits the Playboy Bunnies would make to the place from the nearby club to do photo shoots. It was only years later that I realized nearly all our trips there coincided with those shoots or Suzy Chaffee nee Suzy Chapstick making an appearance, and which gave our instructor ample opportunity to show off his world-class skills. He always drove out with us but never did the return trip with the class at the end of the day.

To the folks who have said that the Schiit is not bright or edgy, I have taken another very close listen and I think a better way to describe the sound is it's thinner than other units I've heard and it's that thinness that lends itself to sounding brighter with some source material. As mentioned it is a very revealing DAC but probably just not a great fit for my system. Although herea again, it's not just one unit, the DAC that is in play. One of the things I found using the iMac is the Optical is thinner sounding with more separation between the instruments and sparkle on the top end (that can get grating), whereas the USB is fuller in the lows, with somewhat less separation between the instruments and a loss of some sparkle in the top end. I found this to be the case no matter which DAC I tried so far. If anyone has scooped the mids on a track (roll off 1758 or there abouts) you can get a sense of what I'm referring to. Doing that "relieves" some muddiness or "clogging" in the mide range, which is often needed on DIY tracks I've worked on, but it can also thin out the overall track too much and/or reveal mic'ing problems and harshness in vocals. I also liken the overall perceived sound when listening to a belt drive turntable, which generally has a lush and romantic voice as opposed to a direct drive turntable which has a tighter and somewhat more articulate sound with typically greater presence in the bass / kick. Of course this is generalizing to some extent and so many different things impact the sound we hear. But I have found them to be good points of reference. As for the REGEN - - I actually tried it and didn't find it did much in my system. Although I realize it probably needed more time to break-in. In any case I thought it to be a well crafted and ultimately very useful addition to the right setup and that Alex from Uptone not only stands behind his products, he is extremely helpful and courteous as well. To ccklone: not a problem at all. I'm glad that by posting in the thread you were able to make contact with the person you were dealing with. I know how that can be as I also go back to the Usenet days and before Evil-Bay became the defacto way of ripping sellers off between theirs and PP's fees.

which is exactly what i did. i figured at that price is was definitely worth a try. especially with their 30 day money back guarantee. i know from reading the Brooklyn threads that the new DAC is supposedly light years better than the DSD, and i would expect that. there's no other gear that's changing as rapidly and bouts of GAS could certainly keep the ol' bank account drained. then again, my pal has a McIntosh D-100 for the past # of years, loves how it works and sounds and is not looking to upgrade. though i personally thought it to be just ok, and think the Gungnir i currently have is a better unit. another pal recently got an Aqua La Voce, loves it, but can't wait to get a La Scala. this is the same guy who has been through at least 20 or more turntable carts during the past few years and is always tinkering. i recently asked him what he's been listening to. his response was "listening, who has time to listen, my rig is always in a state of change." the one thing i have learned over the years is to keep an open mind and not get so focused on one brand or product so that it becomes a religion. back in the day the saying was "you can never go wrong buying an IBM computer," but for 1/2 the price my Northgate 8088 was as good as, if not a better computer, and i'm still typing on that fabulous Northgate 101 mechanical keyboard right now. ok, now it's time to start reading more about the CAPS and seeing if that's a better way to go then the iMac i'm using or a Mini i've been looking at.

hi jimmy -- because as others have pointed out it's more than just the DAC and by balancing other components, a Schiit might be a very good fit. and you're correct that the MultiBit is not going to be as good as a Yggy and i wouldn't expect it to given the price points. although price points don't always mean a better product. since this has now become a journey and i don't know at present what is going to work best is why I'm trying things out. Nor am I saying that the Mytek is going to be better or that this is a competition. what i do like about it is the multiple outputs including Firewire which would allow me to use my USB external drives without buying an extra case. since i have the opportunity to find out for myself what sounds like what, and what does what in my system, is that a bad thing?

After a week being slammed at work I had a chance to revisit the thread and have to say there are many interesting takes and suggestions. What I don't want to get into is a fit about one persons favorite brand or model DAC, as there are many good products out there. But like everything I've owned from my Fisher 500C I got as a teen, to my Sherwood tube integrated, Leak TL-50+ amps, Arcam Alpha 9 or now with my McIntosh rig, each has its own voicing that is, at least to my ears, similar across others in the same family. I've now had a chance to listen to a Bifrost and a Yggy and they sound like a Schiit product. Whether that's good or bad is totally subjective but for me they're a bit on the leaner side, whereas I perhaps like a bit more beef to my sound. But again, that's to my ears and might not be to yours. I have a Mytek 192 DSD on the way and friend is sending me his Audio-gd Master (not sure which one) so that will further help me decide which way to go. I'm also very happy with the McIntosh setup I currently have and have forgone refurbing my Leak's since the Tannoy's sound great with this setup. Upgrading the Gungnir is still an option but I'll be trying out other units before doing that. As for backtracking on my comments as like... mentioned, I don't think that's the case. There are threads on AK and other sites where guys don't care for the Schiit sound and have gone in other directions. Synergy is probably the main reason but probably so is voicing. I started this thread because I found this site to be very on-target and seemingly very helpful in helping me decide on a direction and what accessories I might need to flesh things out. After getting the feedback I did it allowed me to go back and re-examine the differing opinions, and in turn I posted additional comments based on that. As for my looking for a "tone control" for my system and that that is what the Marantz or my TT is doing, I would venture that unless you're running a straight line, and even then since cables come into play, everything is a tone control in some way as every unit has a sound and voicing. I personally like a revealing sound but I like one that is well represented across the frequencies as much as possible. Back in the day we thought the "Loudness" button on the old big 70's receivers was adding "bass," (instead of low-mid which is what it turned out to be) but it wasn't until I started working in a studio and doing some mastering on the side, that I understood true bass lived much lower than the '125" the loudness button was adding, and was clean and articulate. But could also be full, round and have great presence without smearing the mids or tops (although all frequency ranges effect and impact one and another in various ways). For example I've read comments where the Mytek has leaness in the low-mids, so that unit might not be the best fit either. But I won't know until I try it with my setup. And that of course is the rub. You can read all the reviews, get tons of feedback, but until you hear it with your setup, you really don't know. Years ago when I was very into boutique guitar pedals a bunch of guys on the Music Toyz forum would put together Tour Boxes. Everyone who participated would send a pedal or two and the box would make the rounds. It was really a great way to try out pedals you might not have had access to otherwise and to experience first hand how they sounded and worked in your rig and with your instruments. I realize this would be an expensive undertaking given the cost of many DAC's, but I can imagine it would be extremely helpful. Until then, it's buy and try, sell and buy again until you hit on the devices that work for you. At least until GAS sets in and then it's off to the races again. As mentioned I was hoping going digital would be more straightforward, and I guess it can be if one were the set it and forget it type. I'd like to get to that point, but I fear it's a ways off. To all who have contributed to this thread, you've helped me a great deal and I appreciate it very much. I'll post back after I get the Mytek and thanks again!

Carbo: My speakers are the one constant over the years and have always provided the sound I like. With my turntable and the Marantz it's never been an issue. But I'm new to the music server realm and the head is swimming with all the options. I was hoping that it would be a simple case of get a good DAC, load up the iMac and enjoy. But it's gear swap all over again whether it be cables, or USB reclockers, etc. I'm not quite ready for "set it and forget it" but it would be nice if it were a bit simpler or more straightforward. Then again, it wouldn't be a hobby although at this point in my life sitting back and enjoying the music is my main goal.

Thank you Norton. I think that's certainly the case and something I need to reconcile with. While I like the "romantic" sound of the less accurate DACs as compared to some ESS-based DACs I've heard, if given the choice I'll take a more neutral, accurate sound than one that is rolled off or "creamy." I wish I could have both but as you say probably mutually exclusive. Jimmy / like... my use of the term "crispy" is my own take on the leanness I'm finding with the Gungnir, and what I'v read about Schiit voicing in general (though as mentioned there are many comments which say the Schiit house sound is not bright at all, or is only bright before it has a chance for the unit to settle in). But I think a better way to position this is what's being revealed by the voicing of the Gungnir are more issues with the recording or other components rather than just the unit itself. As my system is already a bit "in your face" as it is, it simply might not be the best fit.I'm not ready to give up on it as yet although I would like to solve the volume difference and am waiting to hear back from Schiit on that. System: McIntosh MC7300 amp McIntosh C-2200 preamp Tannoy GRF (rectangles) w/ Monitor Gold 15" iMac (early 2009) running Snow Leopard and Audirvana 2.4 Gungnir DS w/ USB v2

thank you for your comments Steve. i've read quite a bit about the Yggy and like most units, comments are mixed, and of course much has to do with synergy, etc. then too i sometimes have to question who is actually hearing what. i know that after years of loud concerts and what not my ears are not what they used to be and i've lost a good amount of mids on one side. that all said i am struggling with a few things i've noticed using the Gungnir with my iMac and that i've posted about in other threads. the optical sounds thinner and lighter in the bass but that also lends itself to more separation around the instruments albeit with some apparent "grittiness" on the top. the USB (v2) has a bigger low end and overall rounder sound but is missing some of the articulation and spaciousness that i like. and in comparsion to my Marantz CD-6005 the Gungnir is thinner overall and also lower in output volume. i've checked this out by side by side comparison and then running the optical out from the Marantz into the Gungnir. on my preamp i have to turn up the volume by about 5-7 "ticks" to get the same perceived volume. i have an email into Schiit to see if this is normal, a problem with the Gungnir or just the difference between how the Schiit and the Marantz are constructed. at present i'm liking the Marantz better but as i want to go the music server route and use my iMac, the Marantz is not an option, and i'm sure i can do better.

I thought about the Yggrasil but comments I've read seem to indicate it has the same family sound and can be a bit "crispy" on top. The Hagel is on my short list as are the other typical suspects, a Matrix X-Sabre (or the new one that came out) or a Mytek 192 DSD which is on closeout. Others I'm looking at are the Aqua La Voce S2 and a new $600 unit out of Australia called The Klein. Though I do like having balanced outs to use with my preamp. Sending in the Gungnir for the MB update is also an option I'm considering as well. Appreciate the input. Thank you gents!

I've tried a few lower end DAC's and currently have a Gungnir DS which I'm finding is a bit too forward / lean for my system. The Audio-gd (PCM 1704uk) I heard has the warmth and fullness but not the clarity of sound and separation around the instruments I like. It looks like the next step is to up the budget but not sure which way to go and if staying under $1500 would even meet my goals? It seems you either get warm with less "preciseness" or precise and articulate, but that can border on revealing "too much" and can get grating on the top end. Been reading through the various threads but any suggestions that folks here think I should look at would be greatly appreciated.

Had a chance to try the suggestions and it looks like the Gungnir, while having a very good sound has a "thinner" overall voicing and is also lower in volume than the Marantz. Even when turned up to match the "perceived" volume of the Marantz, the Gungnir is "smaller" sounding. I liken it to DIY pop recordings that have a wimpy sounding kick drum as opposed to someone who knows how to properly use a compressor to build a round and full kick drum that fills up it's space but is still defined. That said on some recordings that are muddy to begin with, the Gungnir helps to strip some of that out. So the quest continues. I'll be looking for a new DAC that has a full, round sound with good bottom end, but that also has a clear, articulated sound with excellent dynamics and sound stage. Some of the ones I'm looking at are the Aqua La Voce S2, Mytek Stereo 192 (currently on sale and like the Gungnir has XLR outs which I prefer) and the Audio-gd DAC 19 10th Anniversary with Amarnero USB (from comments I've read this one has a lush sound but perhaps not the articulation I'm looking for). I've also started reading about Burson and a new DAC out of Australia called the Klein. I'll be spending time reading the posts on this board but of course any suggestions are appreciated. At least I now know the kind of sound I don't want though still perplexed about the volume difference between the two units.

Thank you for the suggestions. I don't think it's as much a matter of preferring the sound of the Marantz to the iMac / Gungnir as it is the difference in sound quality itself, which is pretty significant. Will have time over the weekend to check this out further and will post back once I do. lj

Good thought. I'll give that a try. I'm ripping using XLD at the highest quality and ripping to both Wav and AIFF.

Hope this is the right forum to post this to? I've been going back and forth trying to get the best sound out of what I'm working with. The Marantz has been in my setup for a while and always imparts a good sound quality to the CD's. Recently I set up an iMac running Audirvana 2.4 and connecting via either the optical or USB outputs, both of which have a different sound, but that's a side issue. The iMac is connected to a Schitt Gungnir (DS) and then into my preamp. For the USB side I'm running a REGEN at the back of the Gungnir. Last night I ran another test using a remastered version of Hard Days Night. Ripped the CD to the iMac and then hit play. The optical has the clearest sound with the most space around the instruments but a bit lighter in weight, and some grittiness on top. The USB is fuller and rounder sounding, a bit louder overall but it loses some of the articulation as the instruments sound closer together and there's more bottom end. Then I took the same CD and put it in the Marantz (using the RCA outputs into my preamp). The difference was significant. Much fuller, rounder and louder with each instrument having much more weight but without sounding muddy or confused. The Marantz wasn't quite as clear overall as the optical out on the iMac but made for a much more pleasing and dynamic listen. The Gungnir is a pretty good DAC and the iMac should be able to serve up the sounds. I have more listening to do and although I want the convenience of using the computer, that Marantz is sounding the best. Thoughts?

iMac - OSX 10.6.8, latest version of Audirvana: Are there instances when wouldn't I want to use this setting? Also, by setting this to Extreme it will override any settings in Audio Midi setup? That seems to be the case but wanted to check. Thanks lj