DSK6

Given that the AfterDark Queen Square wave EtherREGEN clock requires a 12v 2A LPS and the EtherREGEN requires a 7V/1.4A, 9V/1.0A, or 12V/0.8A LPS, would the 12V 3A Farad Super3 suitably power both devices? And would it likely be an audible improvement over using the AfterDark Modernize Black 12V 2A LPS on the clock and a Farad Super3 LPS (7, 9 or 12v) on the EtherREGEN?

@ambre Stop it ... stop it ... stop it ... I must resist ... I must resist ... I must resist ... The Uptone website suggests 7V/1.4A, 9V/1.0A, 12V/0.8A ... if I don't intend sharing it with another device, is there any difference in performance? PS. Sorry for sounding like a fanboy but I really was caught off guard by the scope and scale of improvement brought by the addition of the EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock/LPS. I'm in no way affiliated with either company apart from being a very happy customer.

Bear in mind that the following observations were after simultaneously inserting an EtherREGEN (with stock SMPS), AfterDark Reference OCXO clock (Queen 75ohm square wave) with partnering AfterDark Black Modernize LPS, Ghentaudio DC cable and Apogee Wyde-eye 75ohm BNC clock cable, and letting them play a play list on repeat for 10 days straight (with amp turned off). A standard CAT6 cable runs from switch to EtherREGEN ‘A side’ and then an AQ Cinnamon CAT7 from EtherREGEN ‘B side’ to streamer. Nothing else is connected to EtherREGEN except the AfterDark clock. Generally I like to audition gear in my system first but this was not possible and I took a leap of faith based on the almost unanimously positive reviews on both the EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock and LPS. My system was already sounding excellent with no obvious weaknesses (to my ears) so I was hoping for a small improvement but didn’t really expect one. I really just wanted to clean up the signal from my NAS, router and switch before feeding it to the streamer. I turned on the tube pre-amp and tube power amp and left the room for about 40 minutes to let them warm up. Upon re-entering the room I did not even reach the listening seat before being struck by the significant improvement in the purity, added body, added dynamics and lower noise floor … and this was at a lower volume level than I normally listen at. I literally stopped mid stride, grinned and exclaimed “Holy *uck!”. I did NOT expect this. There was no way that these “peripheral” changes could produce the degree of improvement that was already so evident. I sat down and listened to a variety of genres and listened at lower and higher levels than normal, looking for the inevitable downside to this latest system change. The thing that struck me first was how much more powerful and “live” the bass was. Momentarily I wondered if my wife had been dusting and inadvertently turned up the gain on the subwoofer as I could now feel the bass so much more like at a live performance. However, I quickly realised that the bass was also more detailed and realistic and was still beautifully in balance with the rest of the frequency spectrum which was also more detailed and more effortless than before. Previously, soundstaging and image outlines were already quite good but now the soundstaging was even more unrestrained and immersive and the images within it were even more 3D and floated up more effortlessly and purely from the quieter background. My conclusion is that the combination of EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock/LPS have significantly lowered the noise floor which has in turn led to much cleaner (but not hyped) leading edges which enable more natural dynamics and imaging to flow through. I’m guessing that the significantly more powerful and convincingly “real” sounding bass is due to cleaner leading edges in the mid and upper bass region. Overall the system is so much more lifelike in its energy level and attack, yet simultaneously more effortless, easy to listen to and real. Musicality has taken a leap forward. The suspension of disbelief now starts at a lower volume setting than before but also allows that level to be goosed up more than before, without turning hard, to really enjoy a live performance. Even vigorously played piano and violins remain fully and naturally textured at loud volumes, without becoming glassy or uncomfortable. Nuances in vocals, and basically all instruments, are improved. Unfortunately I can’t tell you which component made the biggest difference but I’m not about to start messing with it now. I really can’t see how replacing the EtherREGEN’s SMPS with a good LPS could improve things further … but …

Thanks Adrian and also Leo Sound. It is good to know that the squarer circuit is built in to the OCXO rather than being done off chip. Hopefully the OCXO module used is one of the "couple of chips that do this extremely well" as per Alex's earlier post. Adrian, were your last 2 paragraphs that I quoted above comparing your sine wave versions to your Queen Square Wave SE version, or to the cheaper BG7TBL square wave clocks?

So have those of us who waited a while for the paper from John/Alex but then figured their workload wasn't going to allow them to release it any time soon and went ahead and ordered the After Dark Queen 75ohm Square Wave "special for EtherREGEN" clock not got the best model for the money what we thought we were getting? Though nothing was stated explicitly anywhere, I must admit that due to the relationship between After Dark and Uptone and the fact that this model clock is advertised as the "special for EtherREGEN" model, I assumed that there had been at least some collaboration or discussion and that the square wave option was what Uptone and AfterDark were recommending for the EtherREGEN. My AfterDark clock & PSU arrived in Australia last week, as did my Apogee Wyde-eye 75ohm BNC cable, and my EtherREGEN arrives tomorrow. Should we have bought a sine wave model OCXO clock and a filter instead? Or is the AfterDark Queen square wave output one of the ones that is done really well and (with good enough BNC cable) can match the sine wave output with filter at EtherREGEN? I'm guessing I'm not alone in this situation or state of confusion. Any feedback from AfterDark and Uptone would be appreciated as I'm not going to have a sine wave clock and filter to compare to.

I just received my AfterDark OCXO Queen Square Wave 75Ohm Master Clock and matching AfterDark LPS today but my ether REGEN won't arrive for another couple of weeks yet. Didn't someone mention that the Emperor Double Crown 75Ohm Audiophilestyle special has a sine wave output? I know that JS advised that the etherREGEN will work with either sine wave or square wave but also mentioned that it is better when fed with a square wave. Are AD now producing a square wave version of the Emperor Double Crown, or is it that the SQ difference between clock versions is greater than that between square/sine wave?

I don't profess to have any expertise in this area. My personal belief is that in many cases there is some scientific reasoning behind "shorter is better" (i.e. there are maximum recommended lengths to avoid signal measurable degredation and therefore there must be "some" degredation at lengths shorter than this too) but that this is not typically audible in a typical system using typical cable lengths. Yes, we audiophiles obsess over tiny audible differences but I think we go overboard in many cases and this is why people on "that other forum" laugh at us. I too ordered a Wide-eye last week, an 18 inch length to be sure that it can comfortably reach between my components, but I strongly doubt that anyone could hear the difference between a 6 inch length and 3 foot length of the same clock cable. I ordered it purely because it has consistently received favourable feedback over a long period and gives me a comparison against the clock cable being supplied by After Dark (which is largely unknown yet) so that I can be sure I'm not missing out on any SQ improvement .... plus it will be neater than the longer 1m After Dark cable if it sounds as good or better.

Congratulations, mine left After Dark yesterday for the long trip to Oz but my etherREGEN won't leave the USA for another week or two. 6 inches seems very short for the Wyde-eye clock cable. Does it have sufficient flexibility to reach between the clock and etherREGEN without kinking or flicking the etherREGEN up in the air?

Thanks James. My etherREGEN is not due for a few weeks and my AfterDark OCXO clock & PSU have not shipped yet. So the "setup sounds great" comment was re the current 8m CAT6 cable running from the router to the Sonore SSR streamer at the moment and is why I have been trying to find out if there is any science behind the need to use a short ethernet cable between the etherREGEN "B" side and streamer. I hadn't heard about Alex's comment you quoted above (and will now investigate further) but it may be why JS mentioned later in the other thread you quoted previously that it is "very important to use a short cable on the "B" side". It is starting to look like I may need to add the extra clutter behind my system after all 🙁

I agree with you completely.

The cable from the B side to your streamer is critical as you have just taken the trouble to clean up the noise using the ER. You now need to keep it clean. Cable length and further pickup of RFI are to be avoided. Yes, from a scientific viewpoint of trying to eliminate any potential for degredation I totally agree with you. But, in reality, I'm not convinced that the actual amount of RFI pickup in most locations by an ethernet cable only 8m long will make any audible difference ... I'm not saying it won't under some conditions but I doubt it in most systems. I use a 12cm Cat6 link (that's very short) from ER to my ultraRendu and, even then, I can hear the difference between four different links I've tried. Martin, I don't doubt what you heard but have you rigorously compared different lengths of the SAME cable (eg. 1m vs 8m)?

Thanks James, I hadn't seen that thread. When I get time I'll read more of it but from what JS wrote, his experience is that DIFFERENT ethernet cables may make a miniscule difference to SQ but so small he is not concerned with them. He doesn't mention comparing different lengths of the SAME ethernet cable. The only way to be comfortable that I'm not missing out on any of the etherREGEN/clock benefits is to compare both setups in my system when they arrive. However, it reportedly takes days for the system to settle down again after power cycling these clocks and I'm not confident that I could do a meaningful comparison under these conditions.

@JamesStephens Thanks for the feedback but I'll need more info to be convinced. The network topology and hifi system will remain unchanged and currently sounds wonderfully natural. If I add the EtherREGEN and OCXO clock between the router and this 8m CAT6 cable to clean up the grunge potentially added by the comms gear, the system should either sound exactly the same as it does now or hopefully better. However, I can't see how a 1m CAT6 cable between the EtherREGEN and SSR streamer will sound any different to an 8m one. I'm certainly no expert but the only reason I can think of is issues caused by the "antenna affect" of the longer cable. However, this is exactly the same cable I'm using now without an etherREGEN and there are no audible nasties that I can detect. Surely any degredation caused by the longer length would not be detectable by human hearing? I'd be very interested to hear whether anyone else on this forum has replaced an ethernet cable with an identical one of a shorter length and heard a repeatable difference, or has knowledge of why this could be so.

Is the length of the patch cord between eR and DAC really important? Are you concerned that it will act as an antennae and degrade the signal? I thought that once the eR cleaned up the garbage introduced by the preceding comms gear that the patch cord length (within reason) to the DAC wouldn't matter. I have an eR, AfterDark OXCO master reference clock and LPS on order and was planning to insert them into my system per the diagram below. My reason for locating this gear in the adjoining room is that I don't then have to worry about all the clutter of small boxes behind my hifi system and I don't have to plug the eR's SMPS into my dedicated AC lines that service my hifi system (I've managed to remove all SMPS's from the system). Do I need to reconsider?

It's the L2 original version. On one of the audio forums a couple of techs in the audio industry checked out the USB input design on the original Spring and felt it was quite decent and comparable with other high end streamers. Although I’ve seen a lot of references to the Spring’s USB input being “poor”, hardly any provide first hand evidence of the writer having done A/B testing themselves. I think many of these people have simply repeated what they read on an audio forum somewhere until it became an accepted fact. I must admit that I didn't do exhaustive A/B comparisons myself, mostly because I am "forced" by the CFO to use a regular cabinet to house my components (not a hifi friendly cabinet) and it has a fixed back and sides that makes swapping equipment and reconnecting cables a real pain. Maybe a streamer with I2S output using an I2S cable directly to I2S input of Spring is better than the USB setup or even the USB/I2S hybrid setup and people inferred from this that the USB input on the Spring is no good. Several people have said that the AES/EBU from Aries to Spring DAC is better than using the USB with Intona. I’ve been listening with a decent AES/EBU cable for the last few weeks and I need to swap back to confirm for sure (especially as the new amp is still burning in) but so far I’m not convinced AES is better. Although the bass seems a little fuller (again it could be the amp burning in) there’s also a slight but annoying emphasis in the upper mids that I didn’t hear with the USB/I2S hybrid setup. Apparently the version 2 Spring uses the new XU216 USB whereas the original Spring uses the XU208. I haven’t searched exhaustively but have yet to find any carefully controlled comparisons that show the XU216 to sound consistently better than the XU208. If the new Spring does sound better, how much better is it and what other changes are there in the version 2 Spring that may actually be the cause of the difference? Based purely on what I’ve read in this thread, it seems a safe bet that replacing the Intona with the ISO/LPS-1 would provide a fuller, more natural presentation with slightly fuller bass. But to test this I would need to buy another LPS-1.2, or borrow the one currently powering the Matrix DDC. This in turn would mean dropping the Matrix out of the chain altogether or allowing it to draw power from its 5v USB input (which it does when no external LPS is connected). Either way, it is no longer a purely A/B comparison. I think I’ll order the ISO without the LPS-1.2 initially and see what impact it has when powered by the SMPS and replacing the Intona. If performance is the same or better with the ISO/smps then I’ll move my LPS-1 from the Matrix to the ISO and re-test. If performance is the same or better then I’ll try removing the Matrix as well and re-test. If performance is the same or better then I’ll leave the system like that (i.e. no Intona, no Matrix, no I2S cable, one less Curious USB cable). If I ever got the chance to borrow another LPS-1 I could try re-inserting the Matrix with an LPS-1 to see whether it enhances performance further or not. Hearing is knowing for sure but I would anticipate that the more complex path of Aries > Curious USB > ISO/LPS-1 > USPCB > Matrix/LPS-1 > I2S > DAC is unlikely to sound better than the simpler path of Aries > Curious USB > ISO/LPS-1 > USPCB > DAC … and I do like the idea of less cables and boxes and having the ISO/LPS-1 plugged directly into the DAC via the USPCB, rather than having a DDC and I2S cable between them to possibly undo some of the benefit of the ISO. Sorry for the longer than intended response. 🙂