vastriver

Wow! Who would have thought. Much to my surprise I have heard enough in my system with some simple listening tests to want to mod along the lines you describe. Unfortunately that will be a very steep learning curve with my rather limited DIY skills (probably like a lot of visitors on these forums). But I am going to suggest something simple and inexpensive anyone can try. First, lets get a few preliminaries out of the way: 1. I finally opened up my CAT and I can see that I had used one of the better screened and latched "blue" SATA cables that came with the motherboard. 45cm. So that is the baseline for my comments. 2. What I also found as I dug into this is that you really need to be careful with the marketing bumpf about SATA 2 vs 3. Pretty much all cables will screen the two pairs of signal cables (not the 3 earths). See here: http://www.electro-tech-online.com/attachments/sata-cross-section-png.31540/ and you can see here the screening of a variety of SATA 2 & 3 cables layed bare here: SATA cables: Is there a difference? - Puget Custom Computers 3. There is also going to be a fair degree of healthy skepticism that any of this could possibly matter from the IT world that the Audio world is now increasingly rubbing up against. Indeed if the argument is reduced to data transmission, buffering and error correction the evidence is overwhelming. It really doesn't matter. Have a look at this: Is Your SATA Cable Slowing Down Your Data Transfers? Max PC Investigates | Maximum PC Ok, now we have got that out of the way. After performing a simple 3 way test of SATA cable vs no SATA cable at all and hearing the obvious benefits of SATA vs no SATA (in my system) I got out of my listening chair and went to my local (Dublin) electronic parts store. There are virtually no physical IT/Electronic stores in Ireland anymore so the few here can charge what they like and I paid an outrageous 12 euros for an obviously heavily screened silver "AKASA" cable. I got the shortest one (45cm). You can get them on Amazon for a lot less, maybe about 5 GBP: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-SATA2-100-SL-cable-100cm-Silver/dp/B000TV5BOK/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1399457576&sr=8-33&keywords=akasa+sata+cable Physically when you handle them they are clearly much better made than the cheap and nasty red and blue varieties that came with your motherboard. I have no affiliation with this brand. I was just told they are a popular after market brand with the gamers who actually have similar problems to solve as the audophiles (but from a visual rather than an audio perspective). I have to say, I was stunned by the difference this outrageously expensive 5 quid cable made. I have absolutely no explanation at all. This silly old audiophool is just reporting the evidence of his ears. 1. The immediate effect was that the clear differences between the SATA cable and no SATA cable use cases were gone. And I mean almost completely gone. On balance, I had a slight preference for HDD vs NAS or mSATA. But it was now such a subtle difference that I can see why others might prefer it the other way round. To my ears if you listened hard (and you really have to concentrate), the HDD use case just seemed marginally clearer, less confused, like the lifting of the thinnest of veils. 2. This is what stunned me. I then swapped the USB cable out of the 700 USD SOtM/Battery combi into one of the m/board ports and I was amazed. The SOtM was still marginally better but it wasn't a lot and again you would really have to concentrate. All I could really hear was a very slight additional "bloom" on the m/board USB port. In direct comparison the SOtM combi therefore sounded slightly more focused and I preferred it. But I have to say that (in my system) a better made and screened 5 quid USB cable gave 98% of the benefits of a 700 dollar USB card. I really have absolutely no explanation. My system is not at all state of the art, highly revealing mega audiophile jewelry. It is just a middle range, carefully tuned and tweaked system built up over many years. Its the sort of system I suspect many audiophiles have. I would really like to hear from others with different systems if they are getting benefits by replacing SATA cables with slightly more expensive screened after market varieties. I for one have now heard enough to go back to my electronic parts store and pick up a linear power supply as many have suggested on this and other forums. Hope it opens up a lead again for the SOtM card. grrr I will report back with my findings later. vastriver

Well, for anyone who is interested after setting up 3 separate libraries in JRiver 19.0.131 so I could do direct A/B's of the same tracks only changing storage and access methods, these are some very quick results. You can see some details of my system in the reply above. I must emphasis this was not an ABX or DBT. This is just me and a highly tuned system, many parts of which I have been living with (including my wife's second pair of ears) all over the world for 30 years. I am very sensitive at this stage to small perceived changes. I was so surprised by what I heard that I have not had time to assemble a more systematic report. I will do that when I have the time. It has also led to a train of thought compelling me to get some missing parts from our local (Ireland) Maplin's. A sort of Radio Shack. There were originally 3 use cases but during my listening tests it became obvious that a further 2 use cases would be necessary. I have not had time to pull my CAT apart and assemble a complete set of cables, SSD, eSATA etc. to perform a comprehensive test. That is I did not test UC 4 & 5. I did however hear enough to make me believe (in my system) that such an effort would be worth while. 1. Internal PCIe mSATA -> no SATA cable 2. Internal WD Red -> regular SATA cables 3. External WDMyCloud (NAS) -> no SATA cables 4. Internal SDD -> (regular, shlelded, exotic) SATA cables 5. External eSATA -> shielded eSATA cable + PS conditioning Much to my surprise, the no SATA cable use cases (1,3) were similar and audibly worse than the SATA cable UC (2). With the SATA cable there was an audibly fuller and smoother sound in the mids and better transients in the highs and a more solid base. What is odd about this unexpected result is that because I was not expecting it I actually cannot remember what SATA cables I used to connect the internal HDD. It was whatever was lying around. They may have been better blue SATA 3's, they may have stock SATA red's. I cannot remember. So marked was the difference (by marked, I mean the subtle worthwhile improvement audiophiles often talked about) I instincively reached for the volume control of the amp thinking there was some level difference, maybe caused by JR during the audio analysis process. I still need to hunt around and rule that out but I found almost all the difference could be explained by simply swapping the USB cable out of the SOtM and into a motherboard slot. Then all 3 UC sounded very similar to me. I would have to perform more systematic tests to detect any further subtle differences (if they are there). So there you have it. The only thing I can think of is that the PCIe and SATA circuits are different somehow that the SOtM card exploits? Alex, you seem to be alluding to this in your post? If potentially a cheap and nasty SATA cable is better than no SATA cable (in my system) this has prompted me to dig into this a bit further. The SATA specifications are complex and as long as your arm as you would expect. But I cannot see that there is a requirement that SATA, SATA2, SATA3 are shielded in any way. Maybe I am wrong because the 4 signalling cables (in two pairs) usually are. eSATA cables on the other hand with identical pinouts to SATA must have a second layer of shielding and this is why the terminators are different so that a SATA cable cannot accidently be used in an eSATA scenario. The reason is a regulatory one so that there are no EMI emissions from an external SATA cable. Well that set off an alarm bell. So on the face of it as Alex has noted there will be differences in the shielding of even quite modest SATA cables which leads to audible differences. I heard enough to want me to investigate further and I am off go my local parts shop. Has anyone tried an external eSATA array with additional power conditioning? Tony

Hi Alex, Interesting. I am just building a 3rd JRiver library now so I can run a quick 3-way test with a variety of PoP, Jazz, Classical and at rez from 44.1/16 to 192/24. My DAC doesn't do native DSD. I also have several different masterings of favorite recordings which I often find makes the most difference (in my system). My system is: CAPS like fanless Streacom case. Asrock Z77-ITX, i3, 8GB dr3 ram, wide range 19v PICO, 250mb mSATA, 3TB WD Red SOtM tx-USB (PCIe) with external mBPS-d2s battery pack April Eximus DP1 Mark Levinson 27 B&W 803 I'll get back with a quick evaluation in a bit

Cost/Storage ratio I would say and a certain skepticism (which I must admit I share) that there would be any audible difference except a reduction in mechanical HHD noise. Most modern HDD run very quiet. I use an internal WD Red 3TB and I cannot hear anything at normal sitting positions. However on the other hand I notice that prices of these mSATA drives have really come down alot and it really is a PITA to squeeze large mechanical HDD into a small build. Some of the industrial m/board even allow you to fit 2 and sizes of these mSATA cards have gone up to 1TB, I personally find it difficult to believe there would be any audible improvement in SQ. But as it happens I recently overspeced a Z77-ITX build with a 250 mg mSATA (for the MS 8.1 OS) so there is plenty of space there. I can do a quick 3-way listening test of: Internal mSATA -> no SATA cable Internal WD Red -> regular SATA cables External WDMyCloud (NAS) -> no SATA Will get back.

I know this is an old post but that looks like an eSATA cable (to connect an external SATA array) rather than a SATA cable to connect m/board internally to HDD or SSD.