Kev

Thanks for the info! Yes I must admit I'm rather put off the bifrost by the difficulty (for me) of auditioning it - if the differences are not night and day then I'd be happier trying out some local ones and then the DAC-IT, which I'd have to order but could at least return fairly easily. Drewtt, thanks for that, another definite one for the audition then. I must admit that the M-Dac is at (or beyond) the furthest reaches of my budget, but it does seem to have all the things I was looking for, so probably worth it for me. I can also listen to it reasonably easily too, which would be important for something so expensive. Cheers Kev

Yes, its unfortunate - things usually cost more here as SonNic67 says, though the bifrost does seem to have increased more than I would have expected.. Jim, yes there's a peachtree.UK website, but their branding may be misleading (it mislead me anyway!), they are actually just distributors, not part of peachtree... and not especially cheap ones either IMHO. However, if I were to buy through other retailers then the Dac-it only looks to be about $70 more here, which still seems excellent value given what people are saying about its performance, and puts it in a lower price bracket to the bifrost. Which at least has helped narrow my audition list to the DAC-it and a hand-full of others that I can listen to locally. Cheers Kev

Thanks again Jim. I've seen that said about many DACs in reviews so the dac-it certainly wouldn't be alone in the s/pdif being better. The Asus card's S/PDIF seems like a cunning plan though; it would suit me well to use that for the main source in any case, and I'd probably have more faith in it than the cheapo USB ports on my PC. Jud, thanks too, thats perhaps why I'm having trouble finding the uber upgrade here, then. Although your prices are also interesting; by the time its on sale here (by the very few dealers I can find it at), the USB bifrost (with no uber upgrade) is on sale for an equivalent of $660. So it looks like its gained a couple of hundred dollars, which is probably another reason why there aren't so many of them around here. Cheers Kev

Thats helped clarify my thinking - thanks! Yes, I could still use stereo digital out via a good DAC for music, and add HDMI later should I upgrade to an AV amp of some kind, and so my upgrade path wouldn't matter (until it came to the amp). Hmmm, with that in mind, probably I should be asking different questions instead: If I were to get a decent stereo DAC now, could the future addition of HDMI audio potentially supersede/replace it, or will the S/PDIF/USB DAC continue to be superior for stereo playback? Also, there used to be a big compromise in quality (or massive increase in budget) in going with a multi-channel AV amp compared to a dedicated stereo one. But I'm probably behind the times.. if I were to plan on getting a multi-channel processor/receiver/pre-amp in order to accommodate a future upgrade to HDMI, would it be compromised for stereo music (compared to a 2-channel amp) or are the differences minor these days? Cheers Kev

Cheers Jim, and thanks again for the heads up on the DAC-IT; the more reviews I read the more interesting it looks, but I've not noticed so much about it over here yet and it had largely passed me by. Yeah I auditioned all my last hi-fi setup and was glad that I did - in some cases my tastes didn't always match the reviewer's conclusions (only natural, I guess). I'm struggling to find the peachtree and bifrost in physical outlets/shops over here though, so I may have to buy online and use the return laws to send the losing one back. In fact I can't find the bifrost upgrades at all yet, just the original DAC with and without USB. Cheers, Kev

Reading around, it seems theres a new DAC-IT available on pre-order in some places (though not yet over here) called the DAC ITx; the difference seems to be the USB sample rate has been increased to 192khz. Maybe there'll be some bargains on the current model at some point; almost all my music is from CD rips so 192khz is not really an issue at the moment , and if it became one then there's always the co-ax input. In fact I could choose the co-ax in anyway, and use the USB for an occasional mp3-player hook-up. Definitely going to audition the dac-it whatever happens though; preferences (or perhaps system matching) can go either way, but most comparisons I've read seem to think there isn't night and day between it and the bifrost (without the uber upgrade). So given the lower price it seems like excellent value. Cheers Kev

Thanks very much everyone - I was hoping for some first-hand comparisons with the xonar card, so thats a huge help! Jim, I hadn't noticed the c.a.s.h. page, and you're right - reading that and some other reviews it seems the peachtree DAC-IT probably beats my original ideas at a similar price. As you also find it an improvement over the xonar card, the dac-it will now be my first choice to audition :-) Melvin and SuperRu, thanks for the Bifrost recommendation, its great to hear how it compares to the xonar card too. Its the equivalent of about $150 more than the peachtree dac-it over here (before any upgrades, anyway) so its not out of the question - I'll have to see if I can compare their sound anywhere locally. I already like the modular nature of it though; my budget isn't the biggest so the ability to upgrade it later and keep it current for longer would in itself make some of the extra cost worthwhile. Thanks again, Kev

I'm currently using the analogue outs from a Xonar Essence STX sound card, which surprised me by its performance. However the time has come to upgrade my system and I'm looking to start with an external DAC instead. I want one with at least two switchable inputs, one of which must be optical (just for the TV) and the other could be optical, coax, or USB for my media PC (running win7 JRiver and playing FLAC files, DVDs and Blu-ray). I'd like one with a remote control and volume, but could be willing to overlook that if necessary. I'm not rich so I'd be happiest with something in the price range of (say) the Arcam rDAC. But I don't want to later upgrade my speakers etc only to discover the DAC still didn't sound much better than the xonar card, so if necessary I could probably stretch to something double the price, though it would delay other upgrades. Can anyone recommend a DAC that should be a significant upgrade to my xonar card? Cheers kev

Interesting, thanks. I'l have to do some experimenting then; I've been using JRiver recently and have discovered that if I switch from ASIO to WASAPI the card's software is usable, which I wasn't expecting but it sounds reasonably okay (over the RCA out anyway) so perhaps 'some' software tweaks would be an option. I suppose that I'm already accepting if I optimise my setup for stereo music, then the film watching experience will lose something over a good cinema/surround setup. So perhaps with the distraction of video a 'small' hit in film audio quality would be acceptible to me, if it wasn't obvious enough to continually remind me of its presence. Cheers Kev

I also have a Windows 7 64 bit PC with, Asus Xonar Essence sound card and have also trialled an external DAC (a borrowed Beseford Caiman) so this sounds familiar. Personally I did notice an improvement - the sound seemed more open, and there was also the removal of a niggle I get with the internal card, which is that I 'occasionally' get interference/noise leaking from the computer to the audio path. But 'dramatic' improvement... no. In my opinion its partly because the Xonars are actually pretty good cards with good built-in DACs of their own - they are modestly priced due to much higher sales volumes (rather than being of poor quality), which may skew the comparison with lower volume DACs that aren't significantly more expensive. I've also learnt not to expect too much... I'm often enthused by the latest reviews of this or that, only to audition it and be a bit disappointed. The fact seems to be that after you've entered the realms of high quality audio, chasing further improvement is a law of diminishing returns so worthwhile improvements tend to be (in my mind) 'noticeable' rather than 'dramatic'. Cheers Kev

Excellent, thats helpful, many thanks. I wasn't sure if the 2 channel stuff would still be there properly with all the multi-channel wizzardry, but even were it not then from your link (yes thats the correct card!) it looks like the card could probably do something instead/as well as the media player if I don't bypass its software. I'm sure that would be good enough for me, and I can concentrate on optimising the 2-channel music side of things instead :-) Cheers kev

Hello everyone; this is my first post so please forgive my ignorance! I'm thinking of moving from RCA out (on my Asus Xonar essence card) to a digital out of some kind. I'm only interested in stereo (not surround sound) so was thinking S/PDIF or USB, but whilst I'm mostly into music I am also ripping blu-rays to the PC, potentially with their higher bandwidth audio, and I notice that hdmi audio cards do exist. I don't fully understand what happens when these new (to me) high bandwidth multi-channel blu-ray audio tracks meet just a stereo setup.. Would there be anything to gain in using HDMI just for stereo output or would the media player optimise the playback for stereo output through S/PDIF or USB? Cheers Kev