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jeffkad

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  1. Elberoth, thanks for your reply. Sorry you weren't able to make that comparo, as it would be very interesting to see just how much the BADA makes up for purpose built servers like the one you used. Harley's review almost does it, but he doesn't seem to be comparing to a server of the level of your older build, nor the newer servers available. Thanks again.
  2. Wow, haven't been back for a while (too busy working ). Thanks for all the replies, and glad the thread has proved interesting. I agree that the Harley "review," if you can call it that, gave virtually no info on the so-called state of the art PC server he compared. I think he's worthless, frankly. And btw, as an aside, did anyone catch that the "plain" iMac/BADA system was $8300?!?!? Now, the iMac and BADA combo should be around 3k, so just the associated wireworld cables were $5k? Really? How is that a real world comparison? (Just speaking cost, as I don't want to start a cables matter/don't matter war in this thread, lol) I'm still leaning towards a single box solution with some tech support, but the BADA converter certainly seems to make things interesting. I'd love to see a comparison of standard PC with BADA vs a well-received purpose built server like Aurender, Baetis, Sotm, Sonore, Music Vault, Lumin (although it includes a dac), etc. Interestingly enough, Stereophile did a review of the better level Baetis XR2, and while Kal loved the SQ, in 2 channel he couldn't tell difference between the Baetis' heralded "spdif from the motherboard" output and the USB output from his CAPS server with 'sotm USB powered by separate battery' (I think I got that right). Now somebody please send Kal a BADA converter and a plain old PC, lol!!!
  3. BTW, I did try to ask the infamous Elberoth what type of computer he used as source, but he never answered, nor was I able to find out in reading through the hundreds of responses to his posts. I may have missed it, so if anyone else knows Elberoth or the posts I'm referring to, please chime in. Thanks much...
  4. Since I have absolutely no interest, time nor inclination for doing any DIY, nor enduring the potentially steep learning curve necessary in optimizing a PC/Mac (or learning more than basic function of ripping/playback software like the beloved JRiver), my original interest was in a pre-configured one-box solution that ripped, stored, and played back music as best as possible for SQ equal to a very good CDP. After as much analysis as I can do, there seems to be no clear answer. Every review of one of my prime one-box options (MV, Baetis, Musica Pristina, Antipodes, etc) says it's the best digital they have heard, but the only comparison is to a stock, or slightly modified (ie, psu upgrade) Mac. There has been no comparison that I have found between the various purpose built servers, so its hard to tell whether there is really a difference. The uber boxes, like Lumin, Aurender, etc, all need a separate NAS, ripper, etc, so they do not qualify for my one-box solution, in addition to the fact that I wonder if they are really worth it (again, no comparisons of note, either versus other servers or a lesser server with the BADA converter). The only reason I would get one of these servers is for the pre-configured and optimized OS, ripping and playback software, getting me closer to plug and play. However, I DO like the option to use JRiver for its flexibility, SQ, and potential (upgrades, EQ, Room Correction, etc), therefore, I am not interested in closed solutions like Olive or the Linux based W4S server. The most compelling argument I've read is one posted by a gentleman named "Eberoth" on several forums, where he compared numerous top transports versus a computer using the BADA converter, and he was unequivocal in stating that the BADA handily beat them all. His extensive testing and reputation for very high end components got me started on thinking maybe dumbing down on the server itself (dead money as I said) and focusing on a cheaper ripping/storing/playback solution in conjunction with the BADA converter. In this way, even if the total cost was more than the 3k floor that seems to exist on the one-off servers, only around 1-1.5k of it is invested in a server vehicle, so the "lost money" aspect is lessened (makes me feel better, lol) and flexibility is increased by allowing me to completely replace the server with something new or better without losing as much money, and if it's a true pc/mac/laptop, it can still be fuctionally useful in another application. in addition, the BADA will probably have strong resale value for some time to come. The bottom line is that I WOULD spend the money on a purpose built server if there was a significant improvement in SQ, but I see no convincing evidence on a comparative basis. I wish more people would make these comparisons and help out all us "on-the-fencers," LOL! Anybody else have experience they'd like to share?
  5. Although I am no stranger to costly audio purchases (Revel Salon 2, Mcintosh MC452, Krell S-1200, Esoteric K-03, etc), I have been wrestling with music server options for over a year, especially regarding the outrageous cost/markup for an one-box solution. There is also so much counter-opinion on switching vs linear psu's, operating systems, software, usb vs spdif, usb cards vs sound cards, storage in or outside server, etc, that my novice head is spinning. I cant seem to wrap my head around why it's worth spending 3k-4k for units like a Baetis, Music Vault, Antipodes, SOTM, etc, let alone the crazy money for a Lumin or, God forbid, an Aurender or Kryptos. Good Lord, it is just a server, right? Especially since no server has any real value in used market, so it's dead money (unlike top shelf speakers, amps, CD players, etc). Not to mention most of these manufacturers are mom and pop shops. But in the end, it's all about noise and jitter, isn't it? If the server rips the music properly, and I assume using something like DB poweramp or whatever will get an accurate rip, then it's all about delivery of the signal, no? So my basic question here is, based on everything I've read about the BADA converter, it basically eliminates and removes the noise and jitter issues arising from delivering the signal from computer/server via USB. Is there really more to this? I know it can't be that easy, and I'm clearly a novice, so be easy on me, but a basic computer or inexpensive purpose built server, plus the BADA USB converter, should be the equivalent of the uber-servers, no? Has anyone done a comparison?
  6. Thanks Paul, but Sonore is no longer making one box solution that im looking for. They used to make what appeared to be a variant of the sotm box, but no longer. also, i prefer something with dbpoweramp/jriver ripping/player software.
  7. Wow. Just came back to my thread (having left it for dead) to see all these great responses. Big thank you to Musica Pristina and Baetis for chiming in here. As for me, I went off and focused on other parts of my system, so haven't paid attention to server, but now is time for me to finally make a choice. Pretty sure I'm going with Musica Pristina for a variety of reasons, but their lower end model. And will also probably try the BAD USB converter that is supposed to be killer, and compare it to my Esoteric K-03 USB input. Still would like to see CA or some members do a shootout with these mid priced bespoke players, maybe even compare them to higher priced units like the Aurender, etc. To that end, I do wish 20hertz would share his shootout results with us. He threw that out there but never followed up.
  8. From Marcus Iezzi at PS Audio: Hi, The USB is powered internally. Thanks, Marcus
  9. I believe the PWD mk2 usb input also does not take power from source. Chris, considering you actually reviewed this model, I think you may need to re-visit your comment about most USB DACs taking power from PC So, in the end, this conversation makes one wonder how much more is really necessary within a purpose built server than a good PSU, low power CPU, fanless/low noise fan, if used with an asynch self-powered USB DAC with great clocks and (maybe?) galvanic isolation? (which would of course, solely from a SQ perspective, mean that a CAPS server is probably every bit as good as a $6k-8k Aurender?)
  10. Agreed at that price point, but no so bad at a ~$2500 price point, for a non-techie who wants an all-in-one box, pre-installed and setup solution. Given that the CAPS Carbon price list is roughly $1,100, plus you need to add cost of a good internal cd drive for ripping, and an HDD or SSD for storage, and we are probably at ~1500 in material cost. Now, add in the cost of time to optimize the OS, ripping and playback software, and add profit (they do deserve some profit after all ), and I would say that the mid 2k's is a reasonable price point. $3k is starting to push it depending on whether there are any additional, meaningful features (ie, I do not need the bluray capability, since I'm hapy to spin the physical disc as I'm likely going to sit with it for an hour or two, whereas with CDs, I'm probably making a playlist of numerous CDs). Above $3k, please tell me what is really being added that makes a difference in SQ that isnt already resolved by the basic server's internal filters, an outboard asynch USB converter or DAC with a good clock, and the USB powered internally as opposed to receiving power from the PC?
  11. It doesn't seem like people here like to talk much about anything but the CAPS servers, mac minis, or parts for their DIY builds. Too bad. It would nice to have more interaction around third party, purpose built server options. Many of us newbies and non-techies would appreciate the advice and opinions of the incredible expertise embedded in the membership here.
  12. I have done and continue to do as much research as I can as a newbie. However, the biggest hurdle, as a non-techie, is trying to weed through all the claims and counter claims as to what is important, not important, works better or not, and why. It is very frustrating to read how USB is the best output, then maybe spdif (as Baetis claims), how the sotm USB card brings great improvement, or none at all, how a good switch mode psu can be good but linear psu is much better, how playback from an SSD is better than HDD, yet I know of only one server maker who actually stores on HDD and moves the music over to SSD for playback to ensure quiet playback (this allows using cheaper HDD for storage, and quieter SSD for playback). Very frustrating. I like the Baetis for its price/value prop, especially the Revolution at 3k. It gives me every ripping/download option and playback (incl video), uses JRiver and DBpoweramp, and seems to be well thought out and supported. However, I don't like that it focuses on BNC/spdif output and really gives short shrift to USB, since I'm more than likely going to go with USB Dac like PWD. They actually say on their webpage that their USB output is about the same as a basic PC/Mac: That's a bit underwhelming, no, given that they supposedly are using a better PSU, mobo, chassis, etc? Shouldn't that in itself bring much better USB performance than a Mac? So this gives me some pause. They also don't think the sotm USB card offers any improvement, which is counter to what most everyone thinks here at CA. I am concerned that they either don't care or don't know how to make great USB output. Lastly, I dont like external PSU and external HDD. I don't want 3 boxes. On the flip side there is the Musica Pristina, which is run by a team including some of the Spectron guys. I really like their products. I like that it is one box, including a linear PSU and internal storage, they do focus on USB output (although this is a "special sauce" scenario, whereby they say they have a custom solution but do not provide any explanation). However, now we've bumped the comparative server price (the Virtuoso) to $5500, which seems like way too much for the parts involved. I also don't like that they use Foobar instead of the CA-loved JRiver (for no good reason other than everyone here seems to prefer JRiver for both SQ and flexibility), and they don't identify what they use for ripping software. BTW, they also don't think the sotm USB card makes a difference. So, even though I've researched a lot within my technical limitations, I'm still confused. If Baetis was more committed to USB output, and offered linear PSU and storage inside the box, I might go their way. If MP was more appropriately priced and maybe used JRiver, I'd probably go their way. And what about things I don't understand, like is the sotm USB card something I really should insist be included? Still weeding through the murk and mud of computer audio. I know that most here are techies that build their own, but for myself and many others that don't truly understand and have difficulty wading through fact and fiction, we would appreciate any and all help, guidance and opinion.
  13. Kevin, below is what they said on that A'gon thread. They did not see an improvement on their unit, but could see how it improved sound on units with poor power supplies.
  14. Although a techie I am definitely not, here is an excerpt from the Musica Pristina website about USB input and the sotm usb card that may be of interest to this discussion. (Musica Pristina is a music server option I am exploring)
  15. I'm a newbie looking for a one-box solution that will provide ripping, storage, playback and excellent sound quality. I like Baetis, Musica Pristina, and Music Vault, as they all seem like nice units that can be had around $3k or less. Each of these companies have somewhat different takes on how to build a server for best SQ (i.e., USB vs SPDIF, fanless vs low-noise fan, minimal op systems vs browser-enabled to download directly). I have no idea if what they say is reasonable or just silly hype. There are so many experts here that know better than I do, would anyone mind taking a quick look at their website content and giving a quick opinion? The Baetis and Musica Pristina sites are pretty detailed about whats in their units, while the Music Vault site info is fairly limited. Might be enlightening or even amusing: According to another forum (AudioEnz), the Baetis website apparently makes some statements that may be a bit over the top. Here's some quotes that an AudioEnz poster found amusing: From one of the baetisaudio pages... "A good DAC is so sensitive that a standard coaxial RCA output will cause the music to “jump” if you step on the floor near the equipment rack." My god, reading further, the Baetis guy is a nutter!!! "Because the sound card is integrated, however, there are no latency issues that might arise from using a PCI or PCI-e soundcard to output the lossless audio file in its original, unprocessed state. Also, for all the music servers being reviewed, the audio file can be played from RAM, not from a spinning hard drive, thus eliminating “wow” associated with a turntable moving at inconstant speeds" Seriously - how does he thing that the motherboards onboard sound device is connected to the CPU? Just because its not going through a physical PCI or PCI-e connector it cant be going via the PCI-e bus?....... And as for getting wow from a hard drive.... Thanks for any help you can provide.
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