montpierjazz

Yes, thought it was pretty clear I realized long ago not to expect LH to ever deliver a Vi DAC; purchased a Playback Designs Merlot DAC years ago that I'm quite happy with. So at this point I check in intermittently mostly to be amused by the vitriol. But I kind of wonder why you're expecting a detailed explanation from LH? People have been requesting precisely that across this and other forums, and even years before on the old LH website forums. The infrequent responses have either attempted to justify non-delivery due to failings and incompetence and/or have turned out to be complete falsehoods. If Stuck Limo posted a picture of hundreds of Pulse, Vi DAC's, Waves, etc. in boxes ready to be shipped I would be pleasantly surprised but still dubious. Very simply AFAIC what's left of the company (?) lost all credibility years ago, as the 43 (and counting) pages of this thread so richly document. Still, keeping this thread active is not a waste of time. Hopefully it does provide a reminder to LH that there are people who have not forgotten his transgressions and just maybe pop up in a Google search of "LH Labs" or "Light Harmonic" to prevent others from being taken in by his scams in the future. One can only hope at this point. So if posting "evil clown" pictures works for you, be my guest! Cheers and stay well

That's wonderful! If I were more creative, might be fascinating to somehow illustrate the twists and turns documenting often false claims of Vi DAC progress, including a special plotting devoted to 5+ years of chassis design renderings, vendor selection, impending prototype arrival, prototype failures, report of a working prototype, impending production ramp-up, production failures, re-design renderings, etc. Would make a helluva pretzel. As opposed to some of the other promised LH Labs "Perks" which were pretty much non-starters aside from LH & Co. pocketing more $ (of course with IGG getting their cut).

Not bad, but "march" might imply forward movement. Perhaps one could "death march in place" but again, some movement is suggested. Even a "death crawl" is probably too fast paced to do this justice and maybe too honorable. Thoughts?

With all due respect, the post is "odd"??? I'm sorry but I could come up with a bunch of other adjectives. Let's try: OLD (as in I've lost count of how many similar posts received over the past 5+ years) RIDICULOUS (as in we're supposed to be pleased they've supposedly achieved 2 working units) DUBIOUS (based on prior Pulse experiences we shouldn't expect those units to be working for long) UNCONVINCING (as in this is from the same source that led us to believe these units were shipping 4+ years ago) SURREALISTIC (as in is someone perhaps on drugs?) FAKE NEWS (never mind, let's not go there, someone else has already abused that term) I could go on, but let's take a step back. The prior "update" (I'm using that term loosely) claimed that they had received 5 chassis but 2 didn't work out. Someone has been futzing with this f#@*ing (apologies mod, but this deserves an expletive) chassis for how many years and still can't get better than a 60% yield rate? If true, that's a whole new level of pathetic. (If anyone still thinks LH is a competent designer I have a few bridges to sell you...) And now, since the Dec 21, 2019 post they claim to have a whole 2 of the 3 working? If my math is right, what happened to the other -- did it blow up? (Now, that's a picture I would love to see!) So, I have a question for folks: I've been browsing design theory literature and have not found terminology for when a process is stuck in an endless loop or perhaps the opposite of "rapid prototyping". Merely being "slow" or "unsuccessful" doesn't quite capture the lunacy of this journey and just labeling this a "scam" somehow feels to me, well, too dignified. And sorry, just posting pictures of clowns or popcorn just doesn't quite do much for me either. Since unfortunately many of us have a bit more time on our hands, I propose we show a bit more creativity in future posts to this thread. But let's adhere to the forum rules and keep the comments above board, avoiding overt personal attacks or insults and of course, maintaining "social distancing" protocols. (Yes, Stuck Limo, you're also eligible) Stay safe and healthy all!

Sorry to hear about your situation AgentXXL. Unfortunately doubtless there are others in similarly unforeseen circumstances and some no longer with us, even before the horrible current events. Sometimes I feel what's been lost in the endless nitpicking about delivery numbers and endless virtual chassis design renderings and debates about silly IEM exchange programs and insults and excuses throughout this thread is the distress of many people, perhaps of limited means, who got drawn into this scam while Larry, Gavin et al. plus IGG laughed their way to the bank, at least for a while. And others who profited from the fairly extensive print/online advertising run by LH Labs/Light Harmonic -- if presumably Stereophile, TAS (2 page vaporware LH Sire!) etc. ever actually got paid with funds that were diverted from actually producing products -- as well as customized rugs and Teslas. Jarek, at this point I don't know if you're just further enabling the nonsense, but if you still have any communications with Larry, I have just one word for you to pass on: Karma

Hey Mike - just submitted my info and signed consent form to Markus. BIG THANK YOU to Mike & Markus and everyone else involved in getting this off the ground. Today's the deadline so anyone who has griped about the behavior of Larry Ho with respect to LH Labs should take the time to submit their information to [email protected] and (to paraphrase the infamous Gavin Fish....) Join us and 20,000 passionate audiophiles to obtain refunds for never delivered game-changing ultra high performance audio gear. (And Mike, was glancing back at recent thread posts and the above comment is hilarious. Too bad Seinfeld is no longer around. Imagine an episode which starts with George steaming about contributing to a crowdfunding campaign that turned out to be a fraud and sending Kramer to China to confront those responsible...)

Just received the e-mail. Wow - I had completely forgotten about this. Replaced my Pulse/LPS last year with a much better (and reliable) DAC but it's had the additional benefit of lowering my blood pressure not being exposed to the LH Labs logo. Thanks so much to Markus and Mike, instructions look clear. Make sure to remind people about Jan 3 2020 deadline as things tend to slip around hectic holiday season. And a shout out to Blake: had not seen the GF YouTube. Pathetic. And Bernard: yes, much more appropriate thread title. Thank you!

Jarek - thank you for the prompt and honest response. Follow-up question: looking back I paid $62 to LH Labs for shipping of the Vi DAC on Jan 20, 2016. That was not a "perk" as per IGG, but clearly a fee charged separately for a service that was invoiced under false pretenses and clearly not provided. What is the most appropriate contact channel to officially request a refund?

Wow, it's funny how this thread is dormant for months and then just springs back into action. I ventured back here only because I now have another problem: unfortunately for me LH Labs is the gift that keeps on giving ... like a virus I just cannot get rid of. So, I finally gave up on receiving a Vi DAC in this lifetime and purchased a high end DAC from a reputable source that sounds great. Got sick of looking at the LH Labs boxes sitting around and sold my Pulse Xfi/LPS combo on Audiogon last month for less than one-fifth of what I had paid just to get it out of the house. I kind of assumed that any online buyer on Audiogon would have some notion of the LH Labs story and knew what they were getting at that price. Just got an e-mail the buyer informing me that the Pulse volume is stuck at -127db and he just cannot get it to work. It was working fine for me and he acknowledges it was initially working for him. I sent him firmware update "bin" files that I had (it was the version 2 chassis) and referred him to the LH Labs support site. But he's now telling me the DAC appears to be dead. Realize this may be a ridiculously stupid question, but is there anything resembling tech support anymore or is it just Jarek fending off the attacks with no real progress to share on various web forums?

Blake - have to compliment you as your posts here and elsewhere display admirable restraint. I've tried to stay at least somewhat optimistic and encouraging, but at this point not especially hopeful. Fortunately my Pulse Xfi/LPS are still functioning and I'm just owed a Vi DAC Tube SE. You've obviously been doing a bit of digging into LH corporate standing. Based on this last comment get the feeling that you've reached a tipping point? Have to say that I'm amazed that Indiegogo seems to be still allowing LH access to funding as "In Demand" for Source server. Judging from that campaign's Updates & Comments it's same story of stringing along those who took the bait... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-source-the-ultimate-hd-music-server-sound/x/5516545#/

Blake - sorry, but I just don't think this is possible. People have been pleading for LH to do just this for over 2 years now on both iterations LH Labs forums across multiple IGG campaign discussions, and unfortunately he seems to be incapable of doing so. It's only after Gavin was "separated" from the company that we got the ugly news about the mass failures of Pulse components holding up fulfillment of those products. Last I heard was that LH was no longer speaking to GF as a result and apparently changed campaign ownership to revoke GF's access to IGG sites. Not sure how much soul searching Larry has done, but as for the choice between integrity vs. dishonesty seems to me he's made a decision. But I really do hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Hi Kenny - Agree, I don't think Larry's "tinkering" represents an attempt to defraud. But to give just one example, at the time I committed to the Vi DAC there were no plans for various CCX modules to swap out its output capacitors and connectors. Yeah, okay, so he's added another bell & whistle. But then it's discovered that in doing so: Cannot provide both single-ended and balanced outputs together -- no big deal, but... As just announced will need to be shipped separately because of weight, and of course... Despite the endless chassis delay based on Hercules report of receipt with just CCX #1 I'm guessing the various CCX modules are still not ready Bottom Line: I'm sure this "option" provided considerable additional complexity to design, manufacture and production; and prolonged endless delay -- it certainly didn't help with the chassis manufacture issues, which is obviously a whole other topic In other words, there's a reason why if someone is supposed to be making hundreds of these items you don't create all these various options, especially when you already don't know how to make what you've already committed to. (Example: Henry Ford made sure he could mass produce cars before offering a color other than black.) Plus, from a reliability and sound quality standpoint I would be extremely surprised if these plug-ins are a positive. Yes, agree and understood risk of crowdfunding. But at the time I initially "pledged" (Oct 2013) there were not all these other subsequent campaigns, it was presented as a product and the timing seemed reasonable given what I thought at the time as LH's competencies. They changed the game mid-stream and hid behind the IGG no refund policy. It would have been fine it they came back and said: "because we now committed to producing 5+ additional products at the same time instead of 6 months it's going to take 2+ years (and counting) to deliver your product, do you still want it?" They did not. That's called fraud AFAIC.

Hopefully premature to call LH Labs dead -- there are some, albeit limited signs of life. But... However, the Madoff comparison seems apropos; it's my understanding that he was involved in multiple business entities, some with his sons who had little visibility to larger Ponzi scheme (?). But regardless if Light Harmonic and LH Labs are legally separate entities, at the end of the day Larry Ho is at the top of both. Personally, I doubt much of the money raised through LHL found its way to Light Harmonic. Still, Larry and Gavin & Co. abused the crowdfunding platform: maybe I was naive, but my understanding I was paying/pledging for the realization of a single product, and if sufficient money raised, reasonable resources would be dedicated towards fulfillment of that product in a timely fashion. Instead, IGG allowed LH access to launch one campaign after another before completing the first -- so rather than funding a specific product my "pledge" was going towards start-up of a company attempting to develop a line of audio products produced at much larger scale than Light Harmonic. IMO this should not have been permitted and IGG should have been policing itself. As a result, not surprisingly, LH & GF got in over their (swelled) heads. At first I was willing to give them some slack to get out of the hole they dug. But it now is clear that once they got past the small portable Geek Out DAC's to Pulse, LPS, Soul/Vi DAC, Wave DAP, Source, etc. they crossed a line from being "overly optimistic" to being outright dishonest and lying about ETA/progress. Here's where one might have hoped they had invested in competent help for design and manufacture expertise including pipeline management, outsourcing production to properly vetted, reputable vendors, etc. Instead seems more likely the money was pissed away going towards digital advertising and website/forum (re-) designs and CES rooms and clueless consultants creating ridiculous surveys attempting to determine all the stuff they had promised. And let's not forget a complicit role the audio press might have had (i.e., Stereophile initially publicizing LHL crowdfunding, lots of banner ads on their websites, reviews ignoring the mounting reliability/fulfillment concerns, and my favorite: TAS two page spread ad for the absurd $120K Sire vapor-DAC! ... hopefully they were paid in advance(?) Further, LH compounded difficulties by displaying no self discipline when time for "pencils down" by endlessly tinkering with what had been promised, over-engineering options that made an already daunting production task simply impossible. On top of all this are ongoing Quality Control issues resulting in the reported high rejection rates of components and in-field product failures. Not sure how much of this is sloppy engineering or poor part sourcing or lousy tech build, etc. -- suspect combination of all -- but clearly some skillsets missing. At the end of the day, fortunately I'm only waiting for a Vi DAC as I realized that LH was clearly spiraling out of control. Many have sunk much more $ into LHL. I know there are numerous trustworthy, successful crowdfunding campaigns, some even on IGG. But clearly a cautionary tale and know I will never go near IGG again. Hopefully the law will catch up with the cesspool IGG provides for scoundrels and it will go belly-up before others get taken in. Anyway, that's my 2 cents!