Hello all,
I am new to this forum and starting to look for a new DAC to try computer audio. I have read Chris Cs good experience with the Weiss so went to check out the website.
When I go to the website I see the 'pro-audio' and 'high end' sections. The pro-audio stuff also looks great and you can actually buy it online for much more reasonable prices. I was looking specifically at the DAC2 (on the pro-audio side) for $2999. Anyone know anything about this unit? Is there some reason the 'high end' gear is so much more $$$?
Thanks very much,
Bryan
Posts: 2810
Hey Bryan - I think you'll
Hey Bryan - I think you'll find many different answers to your question about the cost or pro gear v. high end gear. It would be kind of nice if a manufacturer would jump in here and let us know what the deal is. I have my guesses like different inputs, different licensing agreements, different features, different aesthetics, etc...
The Weiss Minerva is the only piece of Weiss gear I have experience with so far so I can't comment on their pro gear. I should be done with the Minerva review very soon.
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Posts: 27
price differences highend / pro audio
There are several possible reasons for the price differences between pro audio and highend audio gear:
- highend gear may use much more elaborate mechanics, even if it is just the frontpanel.
- highend gear may be individually tuned / trimmed for best performance
- highend gear may use special parts like special capacitors, resistors etc.
- highend gear may be manufactured in smaller lots which makes it more expensive.
- the distribution chains can be different, e.g. in pro audio it can be like manufacturer to distributor to enduser while in the highend it usually is manufacturer to distributor to dealer to enduser. This adds another margin. The benefit for the enduser is that he/she can buy at the store around the corner and gets first class customer treatment, like demo equipment at home, help with setting up the system, recommendations regarding acoustics, etc.
All those things add up to a higher price with the highend gear.
Daniel Weiss
www.weiss.ch
www.weiss.ch
Posts: 3
thank you!
I never expected to get a response from the designer himself.
I have been trying to search the web for more information about your DAC2- can you describe how this unit compares sonically to the Weiss DAC reviewed by Chris C? Is it simple plug and play to the computer?
I have been looking for a really nice DAC in the 2-3K range.
Thank you very much,
Bryan
Posts: 27
DAC2 vs Minerva
Hello Bryan
The DAC2 uses the same basic design as the Minerva does. The frontplate and feet are different between the two. Also the Minerva gets some extra treatment in that we optimize it for channel matching and overall technical specs.
Best Regards,
Daniel
www.weiss.ch
Posts: 32
I'm also thinking of
I'm also thinking of purchasing the Weiss DAC2, I have a question regarding its analog outputs though:
I need to connect the XLR out to powered monitors and at the same time the RCA out to a headphone amplifier. Can anyone (I noted that even the designer himself answers on this site!) tell me if this is supported (without impacting sound quality) ?
I'm asking because the DAC2 manual text suggests that this is not supported. It says:
"Connect your preamplifier or power amplifier to
the output connectors of the DAC2. Use either
the symmetrical (balanced) lines (XLR) or the
asymmetrical (unbalanced) lines (RCA)."
Notably, in the case of powered monitors that do not have a volume control, how is the volume controlled through the DAC2? Do I need a seperate preamp for that? I noticed that the manual does not mention volume, is this done digitally in the computer OS (Vista in this case)? If so, won't this impact sound quality? I understood that in general it is better to have volume controlled in the DAC in an analog fashion rather than having the bits recalculated by the computer operating system.
Many thanks, VincentH
VincentH, Pro Audio and Headphone enthousiast. Currently using Vista + Foobar + WASAPI bitperfect --> FireWire --> RME FireFace 400 DAC --> Vovox unshielded balanced XLR interconnects --> Focal Twin 6Be active monitors + Focal Sub6 active sub; Grado RA 1 + Grado RS 1; Etymotic ER-4P.
Posts: 27
Weiss DAC2 / Minerva
Hi Vincent
Both XLR and RCA outputs can be used at the same time without interference. There are separate drivers for the two outputs.
Regarding the volume control: It can be done either in a preamp or digitally in the computer. Level control in the digital domain is not problematic (anymore), as today's D/A converters have such a high resolution that they can handle low level signals with decent quality. Of course not all digital level controls are equal. One would have to test them for best performance. Preferably they are dithered at the wordlength of the DAC used.
Daniel
www.weiss.ch
www.weiss.ch
Posts: 32
Hi Daniel, Thanks for your
Hi Daniel,
Thanks for your quick response, in person - I'm honored! Also thanks for answering my question on the Weiss site.
This is good news. I will now look into how Vista handles volume control (dither, word length) OOB and also with other vista software options like foobar.
Does anyone else know more about that?
Thanks, Vincent
VincentH, Pro Audio and Headphone enthousiast. Currently using Vista + Foobar + WASAPI bitperfect --> FireWire --> RME FireFace 400 DAC --> Vovox unshielded balanced XLR interconnects --> Focal Twin 6Be active monitors + Focal Sub6 active sub; Grado RA 1 + Grado RS 1; Etymotic ER-4P.
Posts: 2810
Hi Vincent - I don't
Hi Vincent - I don't recommend using any volume control on a PC or Mac. Some manufacturers say it is totally fine, but my experience has shown otherwise. For example, Benchmark says the iTunes volume control is very good etc..., but when you adjust the volume in iTunes you no longer have bit perfect output. I tested this with the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC in combination with the Weiss Minerva. HDCD tracks illuminated the HDCD indicator only when the iTunes volume was set to 100%. But, whatever brings each listener enjoyment is totally cool with me! There is nothing wrong with using any volume control as long as you like the sound. If it sounds good to you then it's good!
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Posts: 32
Thanks for the
Thanks for the (un)recommendation Chris, of course I will use my ears to judge, and it's understood that I won't miss anything that is better beyond everything I have heard so far. However, I want my new setup to be as good as it can be... hey, I'm practically an audiophile ;-)
So there remains a couple of questions on this:
How about passive vs active analog volume controls? E.g. the Goldpoint SAX1 or the SPL Volume 2 ? Oh man, reading all the "it depends" stories on these really makes me wonder what will be the lesser evil, analog volume control or software.
--VincentH
VincentH, Pro Audio and Headphone enthousiast. Currently using Vista + Foobar + WASAPI bitperfect --> FireWire --> RME FireFace 400 DAC --> Vovox unshielded balanced XLR interconnects --> Focal Twin 6Be active monitors + Focal Sub6 active sub; Grado RA 1 + Grado RS 1; Etymotic ER-4P.
Posts: 2810
Your questions are tough to
Your questions are tough to answer and may have different answers based on individual experience. The HDCD light itself is just an indicator of changed bits. The quality issue is much more subjective. Most people I know really dislike the effects of volume controls that change bits. Personally I always keep it at 100% and really haven't bothered to listen any other way :-)
recommending a volume control is really something I'm not qualified to do. I'd probably give you some bad advice! Maybe Rick (rom661) will jump in and offer some advice on this. He seems very learned in this area. After all he owns a high end shop.
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile