Support your local brick and mortar store

[mav52]

The whole supporting B&M audio stores really depends on where you live, what the store (s) carry and the price of the goods and their return policy and not to mention the ability to demo equipment.

[Paul.Raulerson]

Oh...BTW....you've commented on my username twice now as an indication of my persona. That type of stereotyping is far more dangerous than any of the discussions in this thread and is PERSONALLY offensive.

OT: Well, I hate to point this out, but you did choose to hide behind an anonymous handle that is nothing if not provacative. Personally, I find hiding behind anonyous names a bit offensive, especially when said person chooses to put out strong opinions then demand respect.

But it ain't my call to make here, and I try to practice tolerance.

Just my (probably unwanted) $0.02.

Paul

[mayhem13]

OT: Well, I hate to point this out, but you did choose to hide behind an anonymous handle that is nothing if not provacative. Personally, I find hiding behind anonyous names a bit offensive

Paul

Another assumption on your part, poorly placed, and a clear disregard for respect of an individual.....but you already contemplated this before posting, yet the need to join in got the better of you. That's not just offensive, it's also quite sad.

Maybe revisit post #5 of this thread and direct some of your admonishments to it's content....or are such comments directed at insulting every citizen of an entire nation not worthy of your commentary? Is that what you mean by tolerance?

Your intent is also clearly evident......no assumptions needed.

[REShaman]

Enough gentlemen.

I concur, Chris.

I beg your pardon, mayhem13, and acknowledge your right to feel as you wish. However, I do not feel that anything I remarked or values I hold dear to me qualifies me to be shamed or for you to mind-read my intentions or perspective and attribute them to your perspectives.

Kimo, rough on mayhem13? Rough? It's not an International conflict that applies to all Americans versus Danes, is it? Isn't it contre-temps from at least one party and his views with another party and his views. This is an open forum. I would prefer to ask someone to reflect on how they are representing themselves without being shamed for it. But that's your business.

I take Chris' admonishment to heart and respectfully withdraw from these exchanges. Let the brick and mortar dealers thrive or not.

Best,
Richard

[wgscott]

Mayhem (I guess it must be his given name after all), you started a thread on the political economy of audio equipment sales. So stop whining about people discussing matters of politics and and economy. That is the nature of a conversation. Sorry you don't even seem capable of recognizing when someone happens to be in agreement with your initial post.

Audiodoctor is about as harmlessly witty, gregarious and entertaining as anyone here. If you are finding fault with him, you are looking for reasons to feign indignation and provoke mayhem, ipso facto. Why not apologize to him, let it drop, and enjoy what turned out to be an interesting, provocative (in the best sense of the term) conversation?

[REShaman]

Mayhem (I guess it must be his given name after all), you started a thread on the political economy of audio equipment sales. So stop whining about people discussing matters of politics and and economy. That is the nature of a conversation. Sorry you don't even seem capable of recognizing when someone happens to be in agreement with your initial post.

Audiodoctor is about as harmlessly witty, gregarious and entertaining as anyone here. If you are finding fault with him, you are looking for reasons to feign indignation and provoke mayhem, ipso facto. Why not apologize to him, let it drop, and enjoy what turned out to be an interesting, provocative (in the best sense of the term) conversation?

To All,
I join wgscott in his admonishment. It's witty, clear, thoughtful and a good prescription/course correction for returning this thread to its original path.
Best,
Richard
PS I tried to withdraw, but my fingers got caught on the keyboard. Wait, I'll try harder this time.

[mav52]

It's getting rather old.....

[Paul.Raulerson]

Another assumption on your part, poorly placed, and a clear disregard for respect of an individual.....but you already contemplated this before posting, yet the need to join in got the better of you. That's not just offensive, it's also quite sad.

Maybe revisit post #5 of this thread and direct some of your admonishments to it's content....or are such comments directed at insulting every citizen of an entire nation not worthy of your commentary? Is that what you mean by tolerance?

Your intent is also clearly evident......no assumptions needed.

No assumption are needed - the facts are clear enough. You visit here anonymously, choose a provocative handle, post strong opinions behind that anonymous handle, and you claim expertise in multiple subjects. You dispute this?

Stop hiding, tell people who you really are, and your opinions may carry a lot more weight. Either in audio, or in politics, or in constitutional subjects.

As for tolerance, I think people are pretty tolerant to listen to your opinions, even when you hide your true identity and post your opinions in a provocative or semi-hostile manner. I have less tolerance for people hiding and sniping from behind anonymous handles than most I suppose, but then, that is my personal choice.

If you insist on assuming you can put motivations or assumptions to my thinking other than what I have clearly written here, then you are welcome to your own imaginings. Just don't assume that anyone is going to accept them.

[REShaman]

mayhem13
You present a challenging interface. I say this without criticism of you as you represent yourself. But the subtext is obvious to many by virtue of their responses. Consider this Presupposition: The Meaning Of Your Communication Is The Response You Get Independent of Your Intention. Whether you choose to present as a subscriber to Anything But CA where you get to articulate, if you care to, and risk what is going on for you that prompts such a heartfelt response as you read what someone with a different address (as in Country) might reflect that provokes such deeply-felt responses that reflect your values which you seem to feel are being challenged and violated and that represent who you are. Or as a general member to start a thread to reflect what is not being acknowledged that you find lacking in the CA forum.
Truly, I offer this up as a possible course for you to take where the focus is not on the subject you introduced in your original thread topic but as an additional thread that addresses other matters tangential to that subject but highly valued by you. If this suggestion is offensive to you, please disregard it. But at least know that it is offered not in criticism of you, rather in support of you. I know this is CA and seemingly OT in any realm of what the forum topics may suggest.
Even if I am way off-course,
Richard

[mayhem13]

Mayhem (I guess it must be his given name after all), you started a thread on the political economy of audio equipment sales. So stop whining about people discussing matters of politics and and economy. That is the nature of a conversation. Sorry you don't even seem capable of recognizing when someone happens to be in agreement with your initial post.

Audiodoctor is about as harmlessly witty, gregarious and entertaining as anyone here. If you are finding fault with him, you are looking for reasons to feign indignation and provoke mayhem, ipso facto. Why not apologize to him, let it drop, and enjoy what turned out to be an interesting, provocative (in the best sense of the term) conversation?

I guess I should have been a bit more clear........I 'assumed' that politics and economics were two different things to most people.

[mayhem13]

No assumption are needed - the facts are clear enough. You visit here anonymously, choose a provocative handle, post strong opinions behind that anonymous handle, and you claim expertise in multiple subjects. You dispute this?

Stop hiding, tell people who you really are, and your opinions may carry a lot more weight. Either in audio, or in politics, or in constitutional subjects.

As for tolerance, I think people are pretty tolerant to listen to your opinions, even when you hide your true identity and post your opinions in a provocative or semi-hostile manner. I have less tolerance for people hiding and sniping from behind anonymous handles than most I suppose, but then, that is my personal choice.

If you insist on assuming you can put motivations or assumptions to my thinking other than what I have clearly written here, then you are welcome to your own imaginings. Just don't assume that anyone is going to accept them.

I'm not looking for your acceptance Paul. Sorry.

And as to true identity, what difference would it make if I posted my surname? Do you indentify with people by analyzing surnames for hints to ethnicity, backround, religion, etc? I suspect that is the case as YOU HAVE made assumptions as to my intentions on CA based on a screen name through associations with it's literal definition. Why would I want to share any personal information with someone who might behave so?

[mayhem13]

It's getting rather old.....

It's been old, and I'd get back on topic if others would stop posting comments that demand my rebuttal. I can promise you short of being banned, these rebuttals will continue until the personal attacks and OT opinions in relation to this matter cease as well. I'm not looking for agreement, apologies, or anything of the sort. Just let it go.

[mayhem13]

mayhem13
You present a challenging interface. I say this without criticism of you as you represent yourself. But the subtext is obvious to many by virtue of their responses. Consider this Presupposition: The Meaning Of Your Communication Is The Response You Get Independent of Your Intention. Whether you choose to present as a subscriber to Anything But CA where you get to articulate, if you care to, and risk what is going on for you that prompts such a heartfelt response as you read what someone with a different address (as in Country) might reflect that provokes such deeply-felt responses that reflect your values which you seem to feel are being challenged and violated and that represent who you are. Or as a general member to start a thread to reflect what is not being acknowledged that you find lacking in the CA forum.
Truly, I offer this up as a possible course for you to take where the focus is not on the subject you introduced in your original thread topic but as an additional thread that addresses other matters tangential to that subject but highly valued by you. If this suggestion is offensive to you, please disregard it. But at least know that it is offered not in criticism of you, rather in support of you. I know this is CA and seemingly OT in any realm of what the forum topics may suggest.
Even if I am way off-course,
Richard

Ok Rich, since you brought up supposition.....

Not once have you referenced the offensive comments in context. If you care to do so, I will gladly discuss them with you.

[REShaman]

Ok Rich, since you brought up supposition.....

Not once have you referenced the offensive comments in context. If you care to do so, I will gladly discuss them with you.

Oh Boy, I may be vying for OT candidate of the Year with this response. As penance, this will be my last OT contribution at this thread. If my next post isn't reponsive to matters involving the original subject, may you throw a pie at me (Key Lime).

mayhem13, as a courtesy to me, please notice how I sign my posts. Rich may be a contraction/nickname or an aspiration, if you would, please call me Richard (as I prefer). I've been called "Dick" but you know what that meant.

From your response to what I wrote, which I appreciate because it follows precisely the meaning of the Presupposition: "The Meaning Of Your Communication Is The Response You Get, Regardless of Your Intention", the meaning of the presupposition follows that if you express something to another and from their response you perceive that they did not understand what you meant, you have several choices, repeat it and thus risk the same response, react in some manner thoughtful, critical, assign blame, mind-read what their response means (perhaps as they are doing) OR, take responsibility for their not getting it and find another way to communicate so they do get it, unless their intention is to mismatch you no matter what care you take to restate your initial statement.

Imperative is for you to recognize and to take responsibility to monitor if you are reactive and thus blaming, especially mind-reading what others intend or mean. You might be right, but it's best to query rather than assume there's no other interpretation. Paul directly commented about that. Not supporting Paul against you, merely providing a context as you requested. You condemned me (not taking it personally) and shamed me for beliefs and behaviors or lack of that you felt should have been forthcoming. Again, this is merely contextual.

I know I am going on about this. With DigiPete, one response to what he expressed was to take responsibility for how you regarded what he said through your filters and beliefs, values etc. and query him about the meaning of his communication. Other members witnessing your reaction responded through their filters. When you took what I characterized as a "cheap shot" by referring sine qua non in a post to referencing something like he must be Danish... (paraphrasing) or words to that effect, I was actually attempting to offer a mirror on what that might reflect. It only contributed to making you more reactive. Perhaps, I was too facile. But meant to post in short hand which can only create ambiguity.

The foregoing was my attempt to respond to your request for context. Whether or not I succeeded in providing you with what you requested, it is offered in good will and without judgment. My reference to "shame on you" directed at me was not taken personally by me because I felt shamed, rather to mirror back to you that no one needs to be shamed for a different POV as well as for attributions that come from your "already listening" (but not to the other person). Obviously, you have deeply-held values and beliefs that touch on core values but you may have heard what others were articulating as violating those core values but was meant to. Give them the opportunity first to restate or confirm.

Offered in support as a fellow Human-In-Training (which I am still working on),
Richard

[Jud]

Brick and Mortar stores? Bueller? Bueller?

And since everyone else is, my OT contribution: Kimo I have been to Cleveland and must agree with you, fine sir.

[mayhem13]

I'll assume that you understand that I absolutely do not expect anyone to share my convictions on what I believed to be offensive context. I do expect an understanding that discussions on the topics of politics have no place here, regardless if the forum is international or not.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what it is exactly you're trying to say?
Pete made an OT statement within content that stated Danish superiority over America. My initial response did not dispute his claim, only pointed out the inappropriatness of the content. You had a choice of replying to either Pete, Me, or neither. You chose to reply to me?.....which puzzles me as to why? Obviously Pete's post didn't offend you or you beliefs, and my reply was not directed at you, so why reply to me? Is there a belief or opinion in relation to Pete's post you may be uncomfortable sharing?....Clearly, no one is pulling any punches in this debate, and the debate has long surpassed the I initial 'off' topic. If your intent is to discuss forum edicate, I think you'll find others involved more suited to that discussion, no?

[mayhem13]

Brick and Mortar stores? Bueller? Bueller?

And since everyone else is, my OT contribution: Kimo I have been to Cleveland and must agree with you, fine sir.

Me too Jud, Clevelend is a great city. The rock and roll hall of fame is worth the trip alone. The lake views, and nostalgia of the Agora are icing on the cake. We go whenever the Jets are playing the Browns.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ok guys last warning. More nonsense and the thread gets locked up for good.

[AudioDoctor]

I'll assume that you understand that I absolutely do not expect anyone to share my convictions on what I believed to be offensive context. I do expect an understanding that discussions on the topics of politics have no place here, regardless if the forum is international or not.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what it is exactly you're trying to say?
Pete made an OT statement within content that stated Danish superiority over America. My initial response did not dispute his claim, only pointed out the inappropriatness of the content. You had a choice of replying to either Pete, Me, or neither. You chose to reply to me?.....which puzzles me as to why? Obviously Pete's post didn't offend you or you beliefs, and my reply was not directed at you, so why reply to me? Is there a belief or opinion in relation to Pete's post you may be uncomfortable sharing?....Clearly, no one is pulling any punches in this debate, and the debate has long surpassed the I initial 'off' topic. If your intent is to discuss forum edicate, I think you'll find others involved more suited to that discussion, no?

This is how you chose to point out the inappropriateness of the content you disagreed with...

You are most clearly bias....and a few other things. Slick move trying to bury it in context though.....too bad us Americans aren't too stupid to pick up on it.

you presumed to speak for all Americans. Unfortunately for you, some of us other Americans on the forum did not appreciate the manner in which you pointed out the comments you, and only you, found offensive.

Next, incase you are not aware, "WERE #1" is no longer true, unless your only metrics are military spending and number of wars involved in. Grow up, face reality, apologize to Pete and the rest of us, and decide from here forward to use a less offensive manner of communication. Turn off FOX news too.

[Jud]

Sigh. OK, I'll bite. Pete pointed out economic *facts* affecting the high end audio market in the US and Denmark, which you, and only you, have chosen to misunderstand at great length as off topic offensive political content.

Try reading for comprehension rather than with a huge chip on your shoulder. This is the Internet, and it's international. Being so ready to take offense will just result in more "own goals" in threads that started out promising, like this one.

[AudioDoctor]

Sigh. OK, I'll bite. Pete pointed out economic *facts* affecting the high end audio market in the US and Denmark, which you, and only you, have chosen to misunderstand at great length as off topic offensive political content.

Try reading for comprehension rather than with a huge chip on your shoulder. This is the Internet, and it's international. Being so ready to take offense will just result in more "own goals" in threads that started out promising, like this one.

+1

[Jud]

Chris: Sorry. Don't know how to delete my last post, but you're welcome to (was written before I saw yours.)

[Paul.Raulerson]

Deleted

[mayhem13]

Sigh. OK, I'll bite. Pete pointed out economic *facts* affecting the high end audio market in the US and Denmark, which you, and only you, have chosen to misunderstand at great length as off topic offensive political content.

Try reading for comprehension rather than with a huge chip on your shoulder. This is the Internet, and it's international. Being so ready to take offense will just result in more "own goals" in threads that started out promising, like this one.

Again, who's insulting?....my comprehensive skills are within question?

Without the need for quoting as my memory also serves, the content went beyond economics to include health and education did it not? And as I stated earlier to which AudioDoctor fails to recognize, I'm not disputing Pete's claim, only the manner it was presented and I question the need to do it in the first place.

Chris, while I understand your frustration with wanting to lock this thread, the issue goes beyond the content. It needs to be addressed. If others can stop slinging insults, I think we can hash this out to a positive outcome. I think I've conducted myself well within forum edicate throughout.

[Kimo]

Hey, at least Cleveland is getting some love. Born and raised.