Support your local brick and mortar store

[The Computer Audiophile]

It's too bad many people haven't experienced what a good dealer can do for them. Good dealers are far more than box shufflers who take a cut. They hire engineers and consultants to educate themselves and inter educate customers and produce results that are way beyond the sum of the parts.

[REShaman]

I held back and left out the following: That owner who I attempted to contact through his assistant but who ignored me X3. I was contacted by Richard at Parasound (Richard Schrum, the President) by phone voice to voice who offered to send on my behalf so that I could demo his component he would send the owner a component I was interested in auditioning. Richard seemed sincere. And I covered all bases and assented to the offer to provide the dealer with the component I was interested in auditioning but the owner did not have that model in his showroom. SILENCE! I contacted Richard at Parasound only to learn that with a very noticeable change in tone, no longer voice to voice, but email to email, the offer was not possible and no explanation. I was suddenly almost invisible. Undaunted, I contacted the owner anyway, and was, how shall I put it, totally ignored as if I did not exist. Perhaps, Richard wanted the owner of the dealership to buy the component to demo for me. After that fell through neither Richard nor the dealer/Owner was responsive to me. I was amazed at the change in tone from Parasound. As far as the owner, he was never present or open to me. And his his assistant made it clear that he did not have the authority to make appointments for demos, that was only in the provence of the owner. I was very disappointed and attempted to work something out but being ignored did not inspire further effort on my behalf. By contrast, Audio Advisor, an authorized dealer of Parasound was much more responsive and cooperative, but I was uncomfortable with ordering equipment that I could return as I felt it unfair to them to order a component at a price and expect them to take it back as second hand. I won't do that to anyone. Instead, I went elsewhere.

The responses via posts that followed my earlier post in this thread (I wish to forget the response from the post that followed my first post as I still do not have a clue as to what the heck he was advocating) express my experience and dilemma and possible solutions that have worked for me in lieu of my sincere attempts to shop locally.

If anyone went above and beyond it was The Cable Company that allowed me much leeway, granted I was dealing with "expensive" cabling. But the sincerity and desire to earn my business and educate me and cooperate with me was evident NOT by words, but by ACTION. I would not hesitate to deal with The Cable Company based on the many interactions I had with them. Not promoting that company, merely reporting my real experience. My emphasis is directed to the experience and the delivery when words and actions match.

And, as far as the tax consequences imposed on Amazon.com by my state of residence, New York, the State is only interested in collecting as much tax as possible to cover their ineffective administration of governance, as I am not being represented, I am being ruled. They could not care less about helping dealers in audio equipment survive. Hell, they don't care about anything but taking the pleasures and quality of life in a balance that favors their continuation of overspending, misuse of power and intruding on all aspects of my purchasing experience.

To those online vendors who support me and appreciate my business, thank you. To those dealers who would treat me similarly, I am waiting.

No ax to grind. I just replaced an expensive printer by placing an order with J&R, a local dealer, and paid the tax rather than deal with Amazon.com who I have patronized for close to 15 years and for many, many thousands of dollars. Even their level of service has changed. It used to be more responsive to satisfying the customer. Now it is almost take it or leave it. J&R made me an offer I could not refuse and Amazon.com indicated they were not willing to even match it. Not by direct communication but by text notices. So much appreciation for my many years of business. J&R somehow out retailed Amazon.com. The bottom line in many instances is not about loyalty.

Having written the preceding, I am confident that others have highly satisfying relationships with dealers who care not only about the customer but about providing high quality service and support as evidenced with action not merely words. Much of my last system was locally purchased. Despite the money spent I felt no real connection, though I felt I expressed it from my end.

When I returned for future purchases I was regarded as nearly a stranger. I am a simple guy seeking expert and high quality service and willing to pay for it up to a point. Isn't that position a win/win for a dealer from the inception? Too many hurdles for me. Perhaps from their perspective there's a match. How does that work in our favor (dealer/customer)?

Best,
Richard

[REShaman]

Actually, Sound by Singer is still in business, although in a different location. I bought a dac from Andy in March. All in all a very good experience. Give him a call.

Thank you. Appreciate the information.
Best,
Richard

[wgscott]

So do you think you should have federal taxes only, and perhaps provide equal funding to all schools across the country?
It would do wonders to restore the illusion of equal opportunity in the US.

I think education should be Federalized and universities should be nationalized, and private K-12 schools should not be legal.

This is not a popular opinion....

[esldude]

It's too bad many people haven't experienced what a good dealer can do for them. Good dealers are far more than box shufflers who take a cut. They hire engineers and consultants to educate themselves and inter educate customers and produce results that are way beyond the sum of the parts.

Sounds so very good Chris. I have heard some variant of this spiel my whole life. I have looked for the mythical wonderful dealer. I will grant they may not be as mythical as the Loch Ness monster. They darn sure seem to be a small minority. The majority I have been exposed to, they do take a cut, they conduct business on their terms at their convenience, they do provide little service or poor service. This situation has been this way at least 25 years. You can go back and read the same thing about the worth of a dealer in mags that long ago and get plenty of contrary experiences in the letters section the following couple of months. I don't think a darn thing has changed in essence except we now have viable non-local alternatives. If these wonderful dealers abounded they wouldn't have a hard time making it in today's market. That they disappeared in droves when alternatives arose tells you about what you need to know.

[esldude]

I think education should be Federalized and universities should be nationalized, and private K-12 schools should not be legal.

This is not a popular opinion....

Comrade Scott,

How can your opinion not be popular....? You are only looking out for the good of the children and there is no more popular thing in the USA at least.

[mayhem13]

Sure, if a B and M provides a poor customer service, don't shop there. I must say I'm kinda surprised at the responses where some report consistent poor in store experiences. Some of the NY area stores mentioned, I've shopped in all of them over the years and haven't had a bad experience yet.....including Stereo Exchange not mentioned. Some who have read my posts can assume that I'm pretty frugal.....and that's pretty accurate. When faced with an overpriced item, I've been pretty successful splitting the difference with the competitor's price....online included. Purchasing this way for me, has avoided returns, reselling gear I wasn't happy with and so on.

For those who shop solely on the basis of price, while I don't share your opinion, I can respect it.

[Paul.Raulerson]

I think education should be Federalized and universities should be nationalized, and private K-12 schools should not be legal.

This is not a popular opinion....

It is a fair opinion though. What prevents me from agreeing with it is twofold. First, and most telling, is that we already have a federalized school system; Congress has direct control over the D.C. School system. Consistantly bad results.

Second is that as a republic, education and almost all other local services are reserved to the States. Just my view of course.

Paul

[bottlerocket]

Responding to the OP, I think we'd all be better off with fewer retail outlets. Dallas would be anyway. It is the land of endless strip malls full of crappy little stores. In my opinion, I'd rather see miles of cornfields and cattle and a small fleet of FedEx trucks zooming around delivering stuff from Amazon. Ok the local audio dealer can stay...

[sdolezalek]

Let me throw another variable into the mix - the custom installer/agent. I used to be a big supporter of the local merchant, but, as others have already said, the bad economics for most local merchants mean they have limited floor space and can only carry a limited number of brands. That in turn, worsens the audition experience. It's a vicious downward cycle. Apple Computer Stores are probably one of the few examples of beating the trend -- they both offer service, selection AND they make sure they aren't undersold online -- great if you are Apple, but most of us aren't.

But a great high quality installer/rep can make a pretty good living. I have a guy I work with frequently who does audio, video, computers, and lighting systems as well as whole house control systems. He and his team do outstanding work in wiring and rewiring as well as in setting up entire systems. He has individual experts for each domain so that the computer guy doesn't do audio or lighting and vice versa. Because he acts as an agent for a large number of audio manufacturers, I have been able to audition products in my own home before buying them. Of course there is a cost to all of this, but I find that I have an old fashioned personal friendship with his team, they can provide emergency service immediately when needed and they tend to make their margin on service rather than product sales. Because there is no brick and mortar store, there is less overhead and less inventory cost. The downside is that I might have to wait a week or two to test out a new product. He and I also do a lot of email correspondence about new products that appear here or elsewhere on the Internet.

Maybe in a world of Internet shopping, this is where great local merchants can retreat to?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sounds so very good Chris. I have heard some variant of this spiel my whole life.
If these wonderful dealers abounded they wouldn't have a hard time making it in today's market. That they disappeared in droves when alternatives arose tells you about what you need to know.

Wow esl. I'm not suggesting the best dealers are everywhere. I'll let the rest of your rant go as I'm sure for every good thing I have to say you've got two bad things to squeeze in.

[AudioDoctor]

I think education should be Federalized and universities should be nationalized, and private K-12 schools should not be legal.

This is not a popular opinion....

Oh please let me have the private schools so If I ever have kids I don't need to send them to reich wing indoctrination (public schools) There are such a thing as non religious privater schools you know... IMO Public schools nowadays are nothing but robot factories...

[bluesman]

Good dealers are far more than box shufflers who take a cut.

Absolutely true! Dan Greenfield (Danby Radio, Philadelphia) was my dealer from 1968 until he retired almost 30 years later. Dan gave up a legal career to open his shop in 1949 or 1950 because he was so enamored of audio. He was one of the first to sell Mac, Marantz, Thorens, SME, H-K and Crown when they were all the best of the best.

His ethics were beyond reproach, but he did some things that drove potential customers away. He wouldn't sell anything in an unopened box. He tested every piece and ran it in the shop for at least a few days to be sure it was perfect. He went to customers' homes to make sure everything was set up optimally, even if you only bought one piece from him. He had a wonderful shop with very skilled techs and was an authorized repair station for everything he sold. And he argued with customers and potential customers when he thought they were wasting their money, even if he was talking himself out of a sale. And he'd call if he came across something he thought was right for you.

When Rogers LS3/5as came out, I told him I was interested. So he bought a pair for listening tests against similar speakers. He decided that a Martin system he also carried was better sound for less money, but I preferred the character of the Rogers with my Marantz 8B - so I bought them and he decided not to carry them. He did the same thing when the APT-Holman preamp came out. But he liked the A-H as much as I did, so I bought one and he sold them until they left the market.

A great dealer is a blessing - may you all find one for yourselves.

[AudioDoctor]

I always try to support local merchants. I shop for produce at local farmers markets, try my best to find local sources for what I need, I even tracked down a local vacuum tube seller, if it is a local small businesses even better. I don't really buy a lot of "stuff" but the stuff I do buy seems to be more than just a trinket. Instead it is an object that has meaning, that has a story, that was sold to me by a person with a passion for the thing I spent my money on. There is a connection with that item. IMO, the best online etailers are trying to mimic that model. For example, when I call Music Direct, I talk to the same guy, every time. We talk about music, about gear, albums, fishing, sports cars, etc... Those are the types of connections that are almost solely the kind you get from a local mom and pop shop, or the local hifi shop. If you're lucky. Amazon, Google, etc... they are not replicating that experience. Music Direct is very, very close however. That is one reason I shop locally. It involves me in my community rather than sequesters me in my house. It forces me to interact on a human level, face to face, with other actual humans, pet their dogs, hear about their kids, etc... IMO we have really lost that sense of community here in America. Its kinda sad...

[mav52]

Oh please let me have the private schools so If I ever have kids I don't need to send them to reich wing indoctrination (public schools) There are such a thing as non religious privater schools you know... IMO Public schools nowadays are nothing but robot factories...

Agree Audio Doctor, spot on.

I happened to like having a choice as to where to send my children to school and private K-12 was a good choice and my daughters who both received excellent grades and both are attending college on scholarships. I'm proud to have a choice.

Regarding the B&M stores close to me will I really have no issues, as I can walk in to my favorite stores and hang out with my friends there, listen to music or play around with the equipment and pick up some high end cables or a amp or speakers and have a listen in my home. But these stores are heading down that road to extinction driven that way by the internet and the taxes on small business and the endless piles of paper work that a small business owner must handle. If your business hires employees, you’ll have to pay federal employment taxes. These consist of half your employees’ Social Security and Medicare taxes and we can't forget the withholding tax for the IRS. When you have employees, you’ll have to keep lots of records and file quarterly and annual employment tax returns with the IRS, headaches for such a small business owner. Then there is the inventory, the employee benefits, the utilities, rent etc.. etc... Support them sure, but its not as easy as it once was with internet dealers offering 30 day return practices.

At my South Carolina home, starting in 2011 anything from Amazon that I purchase, yep I pay a state tax on that amount at the end of the year at Tax time. Do I still order sure, its cheaper than putting $35.00 in gas or more and driving 100 miles or more to audition equipment.

[One and a half]

One high end dealer near us in another state has a policy of 7 days trial where you can return the item (provided you paid for it in the first place) in the same boxing that you received it. Once returned, your account is credited. You pay for the shipping both ways. Because your local dealer may not service the brands you want, on line shopping is about the only way, but having a trial period is very important, especially in high end where synergy is very important.

An alternative is to 'hire' a demo model which does the rounds which you can evaluate in your home for say 14 days and return it. Chances are the device if an amp or a DAC should be well burned in, so you get the benefits. If you want to keep the device, the dealer would certanly offer a good deal for you.

While supporting the local dealer makes a lot of sense, just for support reasons, those days are now sadly dissappearing due to economies of scale and shrinking borders. With online shopping, we need to shift and think of other ways to support the local guy. Current restrictive distribution methods in place for the B&M stores would be a greater impediment, maybe that's what's strangling the industry to a degree.

[wgscott]

It would do wonders to restore the illusion of equal opportunity in the US.

I thought I was sarcastic.

[mwheelerk]

I have, save for one instance, supported my local audio dealers over the years. The problem now is of course I am down to supporting a single local dealer because the rest are gone. Of course that limits my selection to the products he carries but I so much prefer dealing directly with them that I will continue to support them over buying online. In fact I support almost all local businesses and pretty much limit my online purchases to used CDs I cannot find locally or new audiophile releases not available locally.

[wgscott]

I almost took a job at U Minn. because the public schools were so much better than in Kalifonia.

[AudioDoctor]

I almost took a job at U Minn. because the public schools were so much better than in Kalifonia.

They used to be, and probably still are. I am a product of the once great public school system in MN. Thanks to the bachmannites I don't think I would send a kid to public school nowadays.

[dallasjustice]

People vote with their dollars. Although I buy almost all of my gear from a single local dealer, I do so mostly because of the service he provides. If he wasn't in business here, I wouldn't patronize any of the other local shops. It sounds nice to patronize locally for economic reasons, but that's not how the real world works. All buyers make their decisions based on their individual needs and preferences, not some charitable idea to save the local economy.

One aspect of going through local dealers and even a single dealer, is the flexibility a good customer can get from their dealer. Sometimes distributors and manufacturers get out of line. That's when a good local dealer can become an advocate for their customer and make sure the distributor/manufacturer takes care of their problem. I have cancelled orders, returned amps I didn't like and demoed numerous other gear I didn't buy. But my dealer doesn't mind because I've spent a lot money with him over the years and he knows I will likely continue to do so. IMO, it's much more important to have one really good dealer, than it is to shop locally. Hopefully you can get both. :-)

[wdw]

typo...sorry

[wgscott]

Comrade Scott,

How can your opinion not be popular....? You are only looking out for the good of the children and there is no more popular thing in the USA at least.

For the dissenters, who by definition must be mentally ill, we can establish state-of-the-art re-education camps.

[esldude]

For the dissenters, who by definition must be mentally ill, we can establish state-of-the-art re-education camps.

Hey, I like it Mr. Scott.

As long as I get to choose the curriculum. Lord knows, I have met so many people in such bad need of re-education. If only they were 'right thinking' types.

[souptin]

To kick start our great re-education project, I hear there is a wonderfully well equipped teaching establishment over in Cuba that might have some 'classrooms' we could rent. Perfectly equipped for our needs. We could call it 'Summer Camp X-Ray' - has a nice Marvel Comics ring to it, don't you think? The kids will love it!