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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyk View Post
    Don
    Feel free to start a new thread. (grin) ...
    Actually, I just did. But not about DACs. I can't afford a new one right now, and I just get depressed pining for that which I cannot have...

  2. #102
    Masters Level Member sandyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jud View Post
    Eagerly awaiting the list of non-defective DACs.
    Especially those that use USB and perform to equally high levels of SQ no matter what type and brand of fully standards compliant USB cable is used.(other than supposedly the latest Phasure NOS DAC)

  3. #103
    Disruptive Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyk View Post
    Especially those that use USB and perform to equally high levels of SQ no matter what type and brand of fully standards compliant USB cable is used.(other than supposedly the latest Phasure NOS DAC)
    Supposedly the exaSound DACs too. Interestingly neither use UAC2.0 interfaces.
    Eloise
    ---
    ...in my opinion / experience...
    While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.
    And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.
    keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

  4. #104
    Señor Member Jud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
    Feel free to suggest one. I didn't even suggest or imply that I'd provide a list.
    Hi Don. I have no quibbles at all with the way you want to categorize DACs. It's not the same way I'd do it, but surely there's room for more than one way to do this in the world. Besides, we've chatted about this before in other threads, I have a good idea about at least one DAC you're thinking of, and it's a very well built DAC.

    But notice it wasn't your comment I responded to, it was jriver's. It's *his* idea of what a non-defective DAC would be that I'm interested in. In particular, if he'd be willing to play along sufficiently to answer what is an admittedly loaded question (or two of them, actually):

    - Do you (jriver) know of any non-defective DACs less expensive than the new Berkeley Reference?

    - If so, do you then consider the Reference a rip-off?
    The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein
    One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

    MacBook Pro, A+ -> 2 Mapleshade Clearlink USB Plus flanking Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> iFi micro-iDSD -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

  5. #105
    Senior Member 4est's Avatar
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    Couldn't help yourself eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by spdif-usb View Post
    You mean... like most of the people who love Apple products? :grin:
    Forrest:
    Win10/i7 HQPlayer RB>DXD/DSD
    >Soekris DAM raw out>tube buffer
    >Stax Lambda Signature
    >Bent Audio TAP>Modded HK Citation II>Tannoy

  6. #106
    Senior Member 4est's Avatar
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    And your work shows it! Thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Miska View Post
    I would consider myself objectivist, but instead of trying to disprove my own subjective observations I try to find ways to figure out objective methods that correlate with those subjective observations.

    If I find that flowers smell better than shit, I don't immediately go and say that there cannot be a difference if both release same amount of molecules. And that the topic cannot be discussed because it has not been scientifically shown that flower molecules would be technically better than shit molecules.

    If we would always stick to what has already been proven and is status quo, nothing would ever progress.
    Forrest:
    Win10/i7 HQPlayer RB>DXD/DSD
    >Soekris DAM raw out>tube buffer
    >Stax Lambda Signature
    >Bent Audio TAP>Modded HK Citation II>Tannoy

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jud View Post
    - Do you (jriver) know of any non-defective DACs less expensive than the new Berkeley Reference?
    In the unlikely event that you get an answer, you might not recognize the DAC they name - unless you are familiar with models sold in the land of make believe. :-)

  8. #108
    vinyl nerd spdif-usb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4est View Post
    Couldn't help yourself eh?
    Yeah... you should see the other thread. lol
    If you had the memory of a goldfish, maybe it would work.

  9. #109
    Ph.D. Level Member Paul R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    I think it's immature to complain about one forum on another forum.
    it may be, but it is plain *stupid* to not discuss and understand why some other group of people supposedly interested in the same subject as this group of people, come to such different conclusions.

    The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths, and have unjustified faith in several different methods. To a far lesser degree, the same might be said of people here.

    Yet people here seem to manage to get along, even with wildly disparate views.

    People here even manage to learn from each other occasionally. Depending upon how much patience they have at any particular moment. I mean learn things other than how to be a member of what looks to be a hostile, belligerent, pseudo-scientific cult.

    -Paul
    Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #110
    Ph.D. Level Member Paul R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miska View Post
    Now you can turn this from subjective to objective by obtaining bunch of DACs and measuring their output in different configurations. I've been doing that, while my primary focus is still on inspecting effectiveness of my DSP algorithms in real world situations.
    A sensible path, easily defended, and likely to produce wonderful results. Not the only path by any means - many rivers flow from a single source and to the same sea.

    -Paul
    Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths, and have unjustified faith in several different methods. To a far lesser degree, the same might be said of people here.

    Yet people here seem to manage to get along, even with wildly disparate views.

    People here even manage to learn from each other occasionally. Depending upon how much patience they have at any particular moment. I mean learn things other than how to be a member of what looks to be a hostile, belligerent, pseudo-scientific cult.
    Agreed, tolerance is important. Another factor is that some forums/sites have an official philosophy that limits expression only to comments that are consistent with the dogma.
    Kal Rubinson
    Music in the Round
    Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post

    The Gasbag forums are, unfortunately, full of a lot of self-important "experts" who are deficient in the maths,
    What "maths" are they required to be proficient in?

  13. #113
    Ph.D. Level Member Paul R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    What "maths" are they required to be proficient in?
    I suspect you are just being a smart ass, but I'll give you a real answer. In any scientific endeavor, amateur or professional, one should at least be able to pass an EMT/ELM or the equivalent. That is, by the way, the *starting* point for any electrical engineering degree, and most other science degrees.

    -Paul
    Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #114
    Masters Level Member sandyk's Avatar
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    Beanbag being a smart arse ? Never !
    He is the official Hydrogen Audio Ambassador to Computer Audiophile .

  15. #115
    Orange is the new Putin wgscott's Avatar
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    You seem to attract them like flies to Shi'ite.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide
    Where we should go. We just ride.

  16. #116
    Orange is the new Putin wgscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    IIn any scientific endeavor, amateur or professional, one should at least be able to pass an EMT/ELM or the equivalent. That is, by the way, the *starting* point for any electrical engineering degree, and most other science degrees.

    -Paul
    I have no idea what this is, FWIW.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide
    Where we should go. We just ride.

  17. #117
    Ph.D. Level Member Paul R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    I have no idea what this is, FWIW.
    And you in California? Or is it because I typed EMT vice EPT?

    English Placement Test / Entry Level Math test.

    Example: EPT/ELM Test Information - Admissions - CSU, Chico
    Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  18. #118
    Masters Level Member sandyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    You seem to attract them like flies to Shi'ite.
    Shhh Louie, or I will give you a spray of Mortein.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcO2UlIMkpo

  19. #119
    Orange is the new Putin wgscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    And you in California? Or is it because I typed EMT vice EPT?

    English Placement Test / Entry Level Math test.

    Example: EPT/ELM Test Information - Admissions - CSU, Chico
    Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

    It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
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  20. #120
    Señor Member Jud's Avatar
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    Unless we are talking about the level of math required to write filters or have a real understanding of them, I don't see math as having a lot to do with being able to contribute to conversations about digital audio.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein
    One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

    MacBook Pro, A+ -> 2 Mapleshade Clearlink USB Plus flanking Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> iFi micro-iDSD -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Jud View Post
    Unless we are talking about the level of math required to write filters or have a real understanding of them, I don't see math as having a lot to do with being able to contribute to conversations about digital audio.
    You mean that you don't need to know more than 2 digit to contribute to a digital conversation ¨-)



  22. #122
    Senior Member gmgraves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

    It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.

    That's common. Most Americans do say "math" (singular) instead of "maths" (plural). But when you consider that "maths" is short for mathematics and NO ONE ever says "mathematic", then you realize that "maths" is the correct usage. Not a big deal though.
    George

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by sandyk View Post
    Beanbag being a smart arse ? Never !
    He is the official Hydrogen Audio Ambassador to Computer Audiophile .
    Only a deluded person would think that someone with two posts ever on a forum is their ambassador.

  24. #124
    Ph.D. Level Member Paul R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    Yep. I'm in California. I teach at University of California. I've conferred a bunch of Ph.D.s. I have 3 kids in the California public school system. I never came across this. Sorry. But then I never heard anyone say "maths" until I lived in Cambridge.

    It is probably somehow built into the admissions requirements. I do know you have to have a year of calculus in order to declare a major in any of the sciences, and a statistic course. I assume it is more stringent for physics and engineering.
    I was surrounded by both Brits and Aussies, as well as a few New Zealanders and Japanese in my early professional life. Like those friendships, some of the verbal sayings "stuck." In visiting a few of their Colleges, I was also introduced to a non-American and non-Canadian style of study. Fortunately, that did not stick.

    I had heard there was a lot of consternation in California about the insistence on using these tests, though they are not used for admissions. But you are the man in the spot and know more about that than I do.

    I will rephrase and say that the basic human college student should have a good grounding in mathematics, for any technical or scientific major. Even if you give them a year to remediate any deficiencies.

    P.S. I was not trying to pick on you, but when your kiddos get to be seniors in high school, I bet they will hear of them. They will laugh at them and breeze through them with no stress at all, but the will probably hear of them. They could probably pass them in 7th or 8th grade...
    Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  25. #125
    Masters Level Member sandyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Only a deluded person would think that someone with two posts ever on a forum is their ambassador.
    Only a deluded person would keep defending them, knowing the feeling many CA members have about a forum with such strict censorship.( Rule No.8 for example)

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