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  1. #26
    I'm interested in the service if the music is available at a reasonable price and lives up to the quality claims that have been made.
    I don't know what they are thinking with that hardware design though, especially at $400.
    And it's 2014 - when will I be able to buy a player that has more storage than my 160GB iPod from 2007? If the goal is to store high res tracks, 128GB doesn't cut it.

  2. #27
    Sophomore Member blaven's Avatar
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    I think the big news, for most of us, should not be the hardware. It is the hope that this will increase interest in better music reproduction/resolution. It does not matter if we all want to buy the hardware... its the content I am interested in, and the potential for more and more people to gain interest in better sounding music. The more people that are interested, the more likelihood we will get more content.

    If interest in better sounding music rises, we all benefit
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by labjr View Post
    If Neil was able to get 24-192 transfers properly done and there's some provenance, that's a great thing. Even better if he oversaw the transfers. Because he's a perfectionist.
    When it comes to his sound Neil IS a perfectionist. Has been for many, many years. I've got to give him the benefit of any doubts I have, just based on his integrity, and look forward to seeing (hearing) what he and Ayer have cooked up. But, that IS a lot of compression for 192 files! (Certainly OT, but Le Noise has some great demo cuts on it.)

  4. #29
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    I wonder if Neil used the Ayre QA-9 to do the digital transfers?

  5. #30
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labjr View Post
    I wonder if Neil used the Ayre QA-9 to do the digital transfers?
    He used the QB-9 to demo Ayre's capabilities.
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  6. #31
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaven View Post
    I think the big news, for most of us, should not be the hardware. It is the hope that this will increase interest in better music reproduction/resolution. It does not matter if we all want to buy the hardware... its the content I am interested in, and the potential for more and more people to gain interest in better sounding music. The more people that are interested, the more likelihood we will get more content.

    If interest in better sounding music rises, we all benefit
    Exactly.
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  7. #32
    Senior Member esldude's Avatar
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    Maybe you can answer this Chris or maybe you don't know. But with a kickstarter campaign going what does this mean about when Pono actually will be available? I thought it would be available when it was announced at South by Southwest or shortly thereafter.
    Highly informative video about how digital audio really works.
    http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Audio_woo

  8. #33
    They should get the Beatles to do mono Pono.

  9. #34
    Senior Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaven View Post
    I think the big news, for most of us, should not be the hardware. It is the hope that this will increase interest in better music reproduction/resolution. It does not matter if we all want to buy the hardware... its the content I am interested in, and the potential for more and more people to gain interest in better sounding music. The more people that are interested, the more likelihood we will get more content.

    If interest in better sounding music rises, we all benefit
    +2

    I'm not overly interested in this for myself, as portable digital audio isn't a big part of my lifestyle, and I don't want another device to carry around.

    But the quote above is exactly right. This is just the kind of thing, if done right and even moderately successful, that could get quality hi-res w/o all the volume compression back in the mainsream. We would all benefit. We could stop the bitching about HDT selling hi-res with high VC, because the labels would stop producing those kind of masters.
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  10. #35
    Newbie Objectionist wgscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooger View Post
    When it comes to his sound Neil IS a perfectionist. Has been for many, many years. I've got to give him the benefit of any doubts I have, just based on his integrity, and look forward to seeing (hearing) what he and Ayer have cooked up. But, that IS a lot of compression for 192 files! (Certainly OT, but Le Noise has some great demo cuts on it.)
    All is fair in love and war ...
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  11. #36
    Senior Member esldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    All is fair in love and war ...
    What exactly is your problem? You are complaining about a man of integrity in regards to fidelity selling, and profiting from hirez which actually is sourced from low-rez? You expect integrity? REALLY?

    So I am guessing you maybe are a bit skeptical of his gee whizz, trust us this will be great, we love real sound quality more than anything pitch? Is that a fair characterization? All the while avoiding at every turn any specifics. You feel maybe a little bit mistrustful of it all.

    You feel like maybe it is a pono in a poke? Surely you aren't that cynical? Or then again, maybe you are?

    Heck this all reeks, I say it REEKS of bull sh**. If you got the goods, then you have no problem putting that out there. Otherwise you speak and promise much and deliver less. Put up or shut up. You got something then lay it out. Otherwise you got crap, and pass it off as gold. Put up or shut up. I am about ready to declare this as stillborn at best.
    Highly informative video about how digital audio really works.
    http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Audio_woo

  12. #37
    Senior Member firedog's Avatar
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    At this point, we should all realize that artists - even big name ones - often have little control about what is done to their work before it is released to the public. Neil Young may or may not have had anything to do with the waveform Dr. Scott uploaded. On it's own it tells us nothing about his integrity or lack thereof.
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  13. #38
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Basically other than Chris promising "this is wonderful" we know no more after this press release than we knew before. I'm sorry Chris but this is another example of journalistic "nod nod, wink wink, you need to trust me".

    For example - does he have any major record labels on board. That was (I believe) the key to Apple's success with the iTunes Store - a large percentage of music old and new became available because they had a number of the major labels on board. Consumers aren't going to buy a Pono unless the Pono store is worthwhile buying from and at a price that they want to pay - does NY really think the consumers he is aiming at are going to start paying more for the downloads because they are at a higher quality?

    I suggest this should still be tagged as vapour wear!

    Eloise

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    All is fair in love and war ...
    That was a screwup of Daniel Lanois' recording engineer. He recorded at 48kHz, and Neil found out too late (that is, after all the recording was done).

    To me, this incident serves as a perfect example of why "high resolution" isn't such a big deal. I've heard people say that the Le Noise LP sounds superior to anything else, but it was recorded in an "inferior quality".

    And about the 128GB holding 1000 to 2000 albums, I'm sure they meant to say "songs". But even then, if they compress the 24/192 audio losslessly, it'll be hard to get to 1000 songs on 128GB.

  15. #40
    Junior Member christopher3393's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaven View Post
    I think the big news, for most of us, should not be the hardware. It is the hope that this will increase interest in better music reproduction/resolution. It does not matter if we all want to buy the hardware... its the content I am interested in, and the potential for more and more people to gain interest in better sounding music. The more people that are interested, the more likelihood we will get more content.

    If interest in better sounding music rises, we all benefit
    +3

    I'm a little surprised at how hard people jump on a typical product announcement. And to have already evaluated Pono as DOA has been the position of cynics since the project was in its early stages. Plenty of people said that Pono would never come to market. Maybe even some people right here?

    Why not let it unfold? We're sure to have more info within 4-5 days after SXSW and the Neil Young interviews. And then depending on the description that accompanies the launch of the Kickstarter campaign, maybe a bit more. I would guess it might be available for reviewers sometime in the next few months or at least by the time it ships. And for me, very few audio products mean much concretely until they are in the hands of a number of average users who then share their experience. That's when I'll be ready to hazard an assessment. And even that doesn't mean a lot until I've had it in my own hands and used it for a bit.
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  16. #41
    Senior Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Basically other than Chris promising "this is wonderful" we know no more after this press release than we knew before. I'm sorry Chris but this is another example of journalistic "nod nod, wink wink, you need to trust me".


    Eloise
    Sorry, Eloise, but what has Chris done other than ask for questions, post a press release, and note that the files are DRM free? I haven't read anything where he evaluates it, endorses it, or says "this is wonderful".
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  17. #42
    I like ice cream souptin's Avatar
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    Do the PonoPlayers still smell of Toblerone once they've glued the iPod on? Or, more to the point, do they still have some chocolate inside? If the answer to either of those is 'yes' then I'm sold!

  18. #43
    Pseudo Journalist Part-Time Audiophile's Avatar
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    Cool Back to the Future?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post


    March 10, 2014 – (Burbank, CA.) - PonoMusic is a revolutionary movement conceived and founded by Neil Young...
    March 10th, eh? Hmm.

  19. #44
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Part-Time Audiophile View Post
    March 10th, eh? Hmm.
    Cleared by Pono to post early? Yes.
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  20. #45
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Basically other than Chris promising "this is wonderful" we know no more after this press release than we knew before. I'm sorry Chris but this is another example of journalistic "nod nod, wink wink, you need to trust me".

    For example - does he have any major record labels on board. That was (I believe) the key to Apple's success with the iTunes Store - a large percentage of music old and new became available because they had a number of the major labels on board. Consumers aren't going to buy a Pono unless the Pono store is worthwhile buying from and at a price that they want to pay - does NY really think the consumers he is aiming at are going to start paying more for the downloads because they are at a higher quality?

    I suggest this should still be tagged as vapour wear!

    Eloise
    No good deed goes unpunished.

    You may know everything there is to know about Pono, but CA has 249,999 other readers that may have gleaned something from the press release and subsequent comments. If you've seen he other Neil Young / Pono questions thread you'll notice this release answers some questions from CA readers not as in-the-know as you.
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  21. #46
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

    1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

    2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

    3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

    4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.
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  22. #47
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    Scoop!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
    Cleared by Pono to post early? Yes.
    Good on ya, Chris.

  23. #48
    Junior Member christopher3393's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
    More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

    1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

    2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

    3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

    4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.
    More details already! Thanks, Chris. Maybe the story will unfold faster than I expected.
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  24. #49
    Señor Member Jud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by souptin View Post
    Do the PonoPlayers still smell of Toblerone once they've glued the iPod on? Or, more to the point, do they still have some chocolate inside? If the answer to either of those is 'yes' then I'm sold!
    Nougatory on that one, I'm afraid.
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  25. #50
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    Anyone know of another portable music player with the same features for $399? I don't think the Astel and Kern has these features and it's more money?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
    More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

    1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

    2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

    3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

    4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.

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