How do you feel about your electrical consumption?

[Paul.Raulerson]

I love the subject, but try like the devil to avoid being insulting or arrogant about it, because in truth, my thinking about the whole subject, and in particular, human involvement in global climate change is pretty much simple - we don't have enough facts, or know enough about the facts we do have.

Which is vehemently argued in some quarters. (grin)

My thinking is influenced by physics training, which tells me there is nothing mysterious about why something does or does not happen, even in highly chaotic systems. It does seem pretty clear that the planet is getting a bit warmer.

The evidence that human activities are at cause for this, or indeed, the primary cause of this warming is far less compelling to me. My thinking goes something like this:

The planet goes through cyclic warming and cooling, and has been doing so long before there was any possibility of effect from human activities. And it takes pretty massive events in nature to have drastic effects.

The effect on the planet of the Siberian Traps eruption, for instance, is believed to be at least a key event in the massive P-Tr boundary extinction event. The eruption was huge, pumping unbelievable amount of volcanic gas, ash, and dust into the atmosphere. And the eruption lasted near on a million years.

So clearly, mucking with the atmosphere (i.e. unintentional or irresponsible planetary engineering ) can have really bad effects on life on the planet. But we don't have enough solid information or theories that are well developed enough to model the climate and get close matches to measured data.

My training tells me that either the data is too sparse, inaccurate, or incomplete - or our models are based on faulty theory - or both. What, in my own amateur way, leads me to question the results of the "big science." Big science has been wrong numerous times before of course, that's the way it goes. You learn something new and all the sudden, a boatload of accepted "facts" seem to mean something entirely different.

I did write quite a bit more, but figured that pretty much anyone could follow that thinking through without 10 more paragraphs. Besides, it sounds more friendly this way.

I basically want to see more data, and models that accurately predict past climate events, before I am ready to buy into the models that predict the future. "Big science" is so often wrong in what they predict, and is so good at shouting down those who are outside of or disagree with the consensus... and so very much money is involved in this.

-Paul

[mav52]

So how is that electrical consumption ?

[Musicophile]

To move back to topic from the Global Warming debate: I just measured my amp and dac together, they consume about 40 Watts together doing nothing when switched on, for a 110 Watts solid state amp with a nice big 400 VA toroidal transformer. I'll measure my iMac later, but would assume to be (display off) also at less than 100 Watts. Honestly, I'm not going to lose sleep over this.

[dallasjustice]

I think the more interesting issue with electrical consumption in relation to high end audio has to do with the distortion and increased noise floor typically associated with less electrically efficient amps, etc. Believe it or not, I have a pair of Ncore monoblocks on the way. I am having Ryan Mintz build me custom power supplies for them. I really think a super low noise floor can be achieved with more power efficient amps.

[Paul.Raulerson]

So how is that electrical consumption ?

Actually, I meant to Message that.... obviously I got confused.
-Paul

[Julf]

Believe it or not, I have a pair of Ncore monoblocks on the way. I am having Ryan Mintz build me custom power supplies for them.

Will they be linear power supplies? It somehow seems a bit of a waste to have super-efficient and compact amps powered by a much less efficient and more bulky power supply, and I am sure you know that Bruno considers the SMPS he designed for the nCore superior to a linear supply.

[dallasjustice]

Julf,
I have read most of the DIYaudio thread and you have more experience here than I do. I know what Bruno has said. I don't think Bruno has said that his SMPS is the best power supply possible for the Ncore. I don't know if you know much about Ryan. He is a very talented power supply builder. I don't know all of the technical details and I will have the SMPS to compare his power supplies against. I don't even have them yet, so I can't say. Having said this, I take what Bruno says with a little grain of salt on a DIY forum. Bear in mind, Bruno is also trying to sell an OEM version to manufacturers, NC1200. Do you really think he's telling those manufacturers that his SMPS is the best power supply that could be used with the NC1200? I am sure it's great, but I believe Ryan can do even better. We will see.

[Julf]

I will have the SMPS to compare his power supplies against.

Looking forward to hearing your experiences! I still think a linear power supply with a class D amp is a bit of an oxymoron.

[Musicophile]

Just checked my iMacs power consumption: with the 27'' at full brightness plus some computing: nearly 200 watts, but regular playback with the screen off around 60 watts (still need to check how much the two external HDs use). So the entire Hifi-gear up and running from iMac to Exposure DAC to Exposure Integrated consumes around 100W, so exactly one of those lightbulbs the European Union kindly banned.

My entire evening, listening to Vivaldi Hires (and watching Germany beat the Dutch on mute), therefore consumed about the equivalent of 15 cts of energy.

[wgscott]

I found this for the Mac mini power consumption (headless).

Similarly for iMac power consumption (includes screen).

[Musicophile]

I found this for the Mac mini power consumption (headless).

Similarly for iMac power consumption (includes screen).

Given that the data matches quite well for my iMac (late 2009, and barely ever running at max CPU), I'd assume the MacMini data is reliable as well.

[Kaleidosoul]

You are heating with ELECTRICITY??? If I would do that, I would have to sell the house to finance my electrictiy bill here in Denmark We have had lots of additional taxes on energy consumption and in particular electricity for years. And they are increasing all the time

Cheers,
Peter

This country should learn a thing or two from Danmark about generating power efficiently and many other things!

[Kaleidosoul]

LOL, we own too many Nuclear Power plants, or is it that we suffer in silence coping with the guilt of conspicuous consumption.

Well, not really but I think most educated adults will tend to try to reduce consumption if for no other reason than to reduce the monthly cost. Perhaps it is more a combination of a bunch of things, including the pressure brought on by 7 billion humans....

I think the most environmentally conscious decision people should make these days is to stop having more children! The earth can not sustain this many people and there is not enough green space to balance the carbon output of our consumption.

Sorry to offend and this should probably be a thread on a whole different site!

[wgscott]

Well, it is "my" thread, so I'm not worried. (I do have 3 kids, however, they are the only grand-children of four grand-parents.) But you are right. The planet has exceeded its carrying capacity for humans.

The most demonstrably effective means of population control is to increase the standard of living.

[orgel]

The most demonstrably effective means of population control is to increase the standard of living.

Not counting the more negative Malthusian options. Unfortunately, your way requires lots of smart, well-intentioned people making and implementing policy.

--David

[wgscott]

Either that, or UN-one-world government, world socialism, little black helicopters, trilateral commission and cables with wolves on them.

[orgel]

At least the cables with wolves on them work. And maybe the black helicopters.

--David

[Julf]

This country should learn a thing or two from Danmark about generating power efficiently and many other things!

Not fair. Denmark (just like Holland) doesn't have any hills or forests to slow down the wind....

[dallasjustice]

Looking forward to hearing your experiences! I still think a linear power supply with a class D amp is a bit of an oxymoron.

Class D - Page 6

[1audio]

Interesting power supply design. It looks like the module is directly over the transformers. Even though they are toroids they do have a stray field. Is the amp module resistant to magnetic fields?

You also said something about low power being quieter. However a switching device is intrinsically noisier than any linear device. The central core of the circuit is linear and probably running at higher current to get the noise down but keeping the switching noise out of the rest is a difficult trick.

[Julf]

Class D - Page 6

Thanks! Definitely looking forward to your listening experiences!

As we have learned, the SMPS600 that Bruno & Co designed to go with the nc400 is a somewhat special SMPS in that it has a synchronously rectified secondary side that, combined with the high, symmetrical power supply rejection ratio of the amp, causes cancellation of ripple.

It is probably possible to design a linear supply that performs as well as the SMPS600 with the nc400, but I think it would be hard to do one that is *better*. And the linear supply is just so heavy and bulky that it seems a shame not to take advantage of the efficiency, small size and light weight of a class D amp.

[odelay]

Thanks for the thread Bill!

I am not a climate scientist. I am in the energy efficiency caper (an energy auditor of sorts).

When trying to argue for why we should reduce CO2 emissions, I tend not to talk about global warming much at all (unless asked). Instead, I talk about energy: rising energy costs and the fact that fossil fuels are a finite resource. I also note some of the most energy-efficient cities are amongst the nicest places to live.

However, my rig is by no means the last word on efficiency. Like Musicophile, I did test my rig a few years back.

I would guess that for me to work at home and listen to music for 5 hours, I use about 1 kW (or 1kg of CO2-e; which costs me about $0.23 in 'green power').

(two Mac minis (2 x 25W), 22" LCD screen (30W), external hdd (15W?), modem (10W?), class A DAC/pre (30W?), 60W A/B power amp (65W)

I would be interested to hear about anyone with a really efficient rig.
My friend's 101db Lowthers do sound pretty darn good...

Maximum output, minimum input
(as the permiculturalists like to say).

Luke

[got tinnitus]

Naim has a relatively low quiescent consumption so I leave most of the boxes on 24/7 or if I do power down when away for a few days, I'll leave the DAC on.

Lights are all CFL and our induction cooking hob have all helped reduce the power bill in recent times.
We're in mid-winter here so the heat-pump is running 24/7.

The power bill for the last month was $225.00 (about US$110.00).

Family of 4 and I work from home so all in all, we're running pretty lean on consumption (appx 40kWh per day).

[got tinnitus]

Naim has a relatively low quiescent consumption so I leave most of the boxes on 24/7 or if I do power down when away for a few days, I'll leave the DAC on.

Lights are all CFL and our induction cooking hob have all helped reduce the power bill in recent times.
We're in mid-winter here so the heat-pump is running 24/7.

The power bill for the last month was $225.00 (about US$110.00).

Family of 4 and I work from home so all in all, we're running pretty lean on consumption (appx 40kWh per day).

[odelay]

Re: got tinnitus,
Nice work on your induction hop - I'm envious :-)

It's been a little chilly over here, but I know it's nothing like the cold you get across the Tasman! I am don't run any heating, but need to do a much better job of insulating this place (resorting to personal insulation and hot water bottles instead). (So I am getting away with away with roughly 7kWh/day (shower: 3, fridge: 2, electronics 2).

I was going to revise my earlier post, but ran past the darn 10min limit. I think I underestimated my rig's power consumption. One thing I forgot is the extra strain of the power amp feeding the sub (which was not in play when I measured it). When tested, my '60W' class A/B power amp was using 50W idle and between 60-80W with music. The volume was way too loud at 80W, but now that it is pushing a sub (high level inputs), it may well use 80-100W. My retired preamp used 20W, but I imagine my DAC/pre uses more like 30W. I would be very curious to measure everything again.

So I'd say my rig uses about 160-180W.

(Mac minis (25W), external hdd (15W?), class A DAC/pre (30W?), 60W A/B power amp (90W?)