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  1. #1
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    Wyred 4 Sound's Recovery USB Reclocker Findings For Audio Performance. (Curated Thread)

    Dear All:

    At the behest of other CA members I am starting a new thread devoted to the W4S Recovery USB Reclocker which will make its debut in the next several weeks or sooner. I gave notice of my purchase at the W4S Dac2 DSDse thread, but a new thread as audio.bill suggested would make the availability of findings easier to find. Makes sense to me.

    I'll repost my "post" here in its entirety, and take it from this thread all that flows. I am expecting a Recovery USB Reclocker within the month. Until then.

    Please excuse the duplicate post, but for continuity and to start the thread off in the right direction (thank you in advance for your forbearance):

    Dear All:

    I decided to take advantage of the pre-order price point and ordered W4S's Recovery USBReclocker during the Holidays. While I presently employ UpTone Audio's Regen, JS-2 LPS, MMK and two AudioQuest JitterBugs what purpose do I have in ordering the Recovery?

    That's what I intend to discover what, if anything, the Recovery will do for my Dac2 DSDse. As some member users employ two (2) Regens and have assessed an improvement, I am interested first in replacing the Regen with the Recovery and determining the outcome for the SQ. Secondly, I intend to return the Regen and employ both together, Regen and Recovery, if that is workable and determine the outcome for the SQ.

    I won't speculate in advance what I expect. How would I know until I know.

    The Recovery is marketed as follows: "The Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USBsignal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!"

    The features are as follows:


    • USB B input / USB A output
    • Ultra-quiet power supply (less than 13 μvolts)
    • Isolated 5V power output
    • Femto clocking
    • Small, lightweight aluminum case with laser engraving
    • 5 year warranty
    • Included in package: Recovery unit, USB A to B cable (Recovery to DAC), External wall-type PSU


    I am doing this merely for the discovery aspect. I am not unhappy with the Regen. But it did require the AQJBs to bring into the SQ range I prefer. I am waiting to learn what the Recovery will do on its own and in tandem with the Regen and AQJB.

    Best,
    Richard

    Last edited by The Computer Audiophile; 02-06-2016 at 12:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Thanks very much Richard! This will be a great thread to consolidate experiences from anyone who evaluates the new W4S Recovery.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by REShaman View Post
    Dear All:

    At the behest of other CA members I am starting a new thread devoted to the W4S Recovery USB Reclocker which will make its debut in the next several weeks or sooner. I gave notice of my purchase at the W4S Dac2 DSDse thread, but a new thread as audio.bill suggested would make the availability of findings easier to find. Makes sense to me.

    I'll repost my "post" here in its entirety, and take it from this thread all that flows. I am expecting a Recovery USB Reclocker within the month. Until then.

    Please excuse the duplicate post, but for continuity and to start the thread off in the right direction (thank you in advance for your forbearance):

    Dear All:

    I decided to take advantage of the pre-order price point and ordered W4S's Recovery USBReclocker during the Holidays. While I presently employ UpTone Audio's Regen, JS-2 LPS, MMK and two AudioQuest JitterBugs what purpose do I have in ordering the Recovery?

    That's what I intend to discover what, if anything, the Recovery will do for my Dac2 DSDse. As some member users employ two (2) Regens and have assessed an improvement, I am interested first in replacing the Regen with the Recovery and determining the outcome for the SQ. Secondly, I intend to return the Regen and employ both together, Regen and Recovery, if that is workable and determine the outcome for the SQ.

    I won't speculate in advance what I expect. How would I know until I know.

    The Recovery is marketed as follows: "The Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USBsignal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!"

    The features are as follows:


    • USB B input / USB A output
    • Ultra-quiet power supply (less than 13 μvolts)
    • Isolated 5V power output
    • Femto clocking
    • Small, lightweight aluminum case with laser engraving
    • 5 year warranty
    • Included in package: Recovery unit, USB A to B cable (Recovery to DAC), External wall-type PSU


    I am doing this merely for the discovery aspect. I am not unhappy with the Regen. But it did require the AQJBs to bring into the SQ range I prefer. I am waiting to learn what the Recovery will do on its own and in tandem with the Regen and AQJB.

    Best,
    Richard

    Richard,

    I am wondering if this device will even be necessary since the DAC2/DSD SE already has a galvanically isolated
    USB input with a FEMTO clock built in. Shouldn't the DAC2 completely clean and reclock the incoming USB signal?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyred_4_Coffee View Post
    Richard,

    I am wondering if this device will even be necessary since the DAC2/DSD SE already has a galvanically isolated
    USB input with a FEMTO clock built in. Shouldn't the DAC2 completely clean and reclock the incoming USB signal?
    Hello,

    Welcome to the thread. Excellent question. The Femto Clock in both the Recovery and the Dac2 DSDse perform a different function than what the Recovery USB Reclocker does for signal integrity, impedance matching, and cleaning up "noise" before the signal from the source reaches our Dacs.

    As with UpTone Audio's Regen, the data signal sent through the USB cable and its signal integrity I.e., impediance matching is treated by the Regen. And the same outcome, I believe is intended for the Recovery. Galvanic Isolation, EFI, and jitter are not the main outcome provided by the Recovery and/or the Regen which do much of the work the Dac does and cleans up the signal.

    However, I would prefer to pose your thoughts to EJ Sarmento, its creator, but I believe he is presently engaged at CES. I will email EJ quoting you if you don't mind and ask EJ Sarmento for a response. If you are familiar with my W4S Dac2 DSDse thread, you'll find that EJ's comments are often quoted by me with his permission when CA members ask questions best answered by EJ.

    And I am not comfortable providing the essentials that are better responded to by EJ. With that proviso, I'll email EJ and post his response when he provides one. Hope that will suffice for the moment. I am also not very technically proficient so please take my response with that understanding.

    And in a sentence, I am sure a response from EJ will clarify what the Recovery will do for the W4S Dac2 DSDse that makes adding it to one's system configuration. I am presupposing the Recovery's features and singular purpose is not redundant given the those specific features of the Dac2 DSDse you refer to and those feature(s) the Recovery duplicates, i.e, the Femto Clock.

    Off the record and rather casually covered by EJ in an exchange with him after placing my order in December over the holidays for the Recovery, EJ mentioned he thought the W4S Dac2 DSDse or any other Dac would benefit from the specific function of the Recovery. But that's not quite as clarifying as I am sure EJ directed response to your query would be. And your supposition/question is a very good one in furthering one's understanding of the specificity and functional application for the Recovery USB Reclocker and intended results.

    Thank you for posting and posing this question.

    Best,
    Richard
    Last edited by REShaman; 01-06-2016 at 02:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Masters Level Member firedog's Avatar
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    It would be interesting if someone also got the Intona USB Isolator device and the iFi USB device and did a shootout. Richard, maybe you can get some members owning those devices to make a temporary "contribution" to your endeavors?
    System (in small home office): GIK Acoustics Room Treatments>CAPS4 Pipeline (running Roon + HQ Player, Sonore 12V PS) > SOtM LAN Filter+Sonore microRendu (LPS-1)>Mytek 192 DSD Stereo DAC >Schiit Freya pre>Odyssey Audio Kismet Stereo Power Amp (Khartago Case) >Devore Gibbon Nines.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    It would be interesting if someone also got the Intona USB Isolator device and the iFi USB device and did a shootout. Richard, maybe you can get some members owning those devices to make a temporary "contribution" to your endeavors?
    Hello firedog,

    Welcome to the thread. I agree. Given I have a Regen and will soon have the Recovery as I am scheduled for delivery of one of the first builds scheduled to be shipped, I can assess those two.

    And if someone would lend me an Intona USB Isolator, I would cover the cost of returning it. However, it would only be moi making the assessment, which at best are subjective.

    I plan to remove the Regen and the two AQJBs and after a brief session listening with them. Then replace the Regen with the Recovery connected to my Dac2 DSDse with the hard adaptor supplied by UpTone Audio. Then remove the hard adaptor and replace it with the Curious 200mm USB cable for Regen being shipped to me by Rob Woodland which I purchased yesterday, admittedly based on kennyb123's assessment, and a desire to discover the possibilities. Then add one AQJB at a time. The return the Regen while leaving the Curious 200mm USB Cable in the configuration and add one AQJB at a time. And finally add the Recovery in tandem with Regen and then reverse the order, I.e., Recovery first Regen second then Regen first Recovery second. Or,

    Am I being OCD/manic? (Smile). Rob Woodland shipped the Curious Cable yesterday. It should arrive within 7-10 days. OCD or manic or just curious (pun intended), it's interesting to rotate tweaks and discover what results ensue, if any. I'll report my findings. I have excellent acuity for audio, but at best, my findings will be subjective.

    The more comparisons the merrier. Perhaps, Michael Lavorgna, JA, or JD (Darko) will conduct a comparison. Given the variety of assessments by CA members, there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Ultimately, one must check it out for oneself and proceed accordingly.

    To be continued...

    Enjoying the music,
    Richard

  7. #7
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    Waiting for EJ Sarmento's reply re request re Recovery's

    Dear All:

    I decided to get "proactive" and emailed EJ Sarmento who has always been generous with his time and replies to my emails after I pose questions inspired by CA members who pose those questions about his components or inspired by my own interest for clarification. As this thread is devoted to the Recovery USB Reclocker, Wyred_4_Coffee's post posed what, I am sure, Others are interested in further clarification.

    Alex and John were very forthcoming in elaborating on "exposing" with specificity the Regen's raison d'etre. I am sure EJ Sarmento will respond. And I will post his response as soon as I receive his reply to my email. I gather he must be at CES, and, therefore, don't expect him to reply until he returns.

    To quote Dickens, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, ..." A Tale of Two Cities (1859)

    Take your choice. I'll make mine.

    Enjoying the pursuit of excellence but most of all the music,
    Richard

  8. #8
    Senior Member tboooe's Avatar
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    Thank you for this thread.

    So is this product analogous to the Mutec MC+? There are so many options out there I am getting confused!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tboooe View Post
    Thank you for this thread.

    So is this product analogous to the Mutec MC+? There are so many options out there I am getting confused!
    Hello tboooe

    Welcome to the thread.

    I won't deepen your confusion or pretend I have a handle on the specifics of the Recovery USB Reclocker as to it primary function which I presuppose has less to do with jitter and more to do with cleaning up the signal's integrity before it reaches the Dac (less work for the Dac).

    I suppose the Recovery and the Regen are kin in this regard. After EJ responds to my email, his comments should provide you with accurate information about the Recovery.

    Obvously, one doesn't need to wait for EJ to respond to me. I am merely focused on making this thread a resource for reliable information about the Recovery from the creator as well as a source of findings and assessments provided by CA members who engage in employing the Recovery and who are willing to report their findings to the rest of us.

    As a curator for my threads, I keep the those threads focused on the topic and purpose of the thread. In this way, CA members do not have to wade through irrelevancies and loose talk that create more distractions than serve our mutual interests.

    So I'll just wait to respond to you and not mislead or guess. I looked up your specific reference; and from what I read, it doesn't appear that the Mutec MC+ and the Recovery are providing the same outcomes even if they share similar benefits on the way to their specific/targeted outcomes. Perhaps, the commonality is in the resulting SQ we appreciate after each device does what it's intended to accomplish.

    Think signal integrity however broad that may be until EJ clarifies with specificity.

    Thank you for your question.

    Best,
    Richard

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyred_4_Coffee View Post
    Richard,

    I am wondering if this device will even be necessary since the DAC2/DSD SE already has a galvanically isolated
    USB input with a FEMTO clock built in. Shouldn't the DAC2 completely clean and reclock the incoming USB signal?
    I am glad you started the thread Richard. I have the same question, it will be interesting to see what EJ has to say. I initially saw the device on the W4S website and dismissed it as doing essentially what the DAC2DSDSse is doing. I feel that the Recovery product is for people with DACs that are not sold by W4S. I have had the W4S DAC-2DSDSse for a few years and have tried some of the USB cleanup products, and felt with the DAC-2DSDSse, they either did nothing or took away from the sound. So as I wrote earlier, I am looking forward to what EJ has to say.
    ​ReadyNAS Ultra/6 stored flac->GigE network->roon->Uptone JS-2->microRendu->W4S Recovery->W4S DAC-2 DSDse->Jolida Fusion Tube Preamp->W4S ST-1000 Amplifer->Von Schweikert VR-44

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBNY View Post
    I am glad you started the thread Richard. I have the same question, it will be interesting to see what EJ has to say. I initially saw the device on the W4S website and dismissed it as doing essentially what the DAC2DSDSse is doing. I feel that the Recovery product is for people with DACs that are not sold by W4S. I have had the W4S DAC-2DSDSse for a few years and have tried some of the USB cleanup products, and felt with the DAC-2DSDSse, they either did nothing or took away from the sound. So as I wrote earlier, I am looking forward to what EJ has to say.
    Hello JBNY

    Welcome to the thread.

    Obviously, the concern you expressed mirrored by several other members is a consideration that deserves further clarification. Though I did not delve into this with EJ when we exchanged emails, I did get the sense from EJ that the Recovery and the Regen share a common outcome, signal integrity. And how the Recovery and Regen differ was not discussed. But in the way that the Regen serves a better SQ, so the Recovery is intended to accomplish the same result. How they differ is a matter I'd rather not delve into as I do not want to start up something that I can neither defend nor account for to the other members. And I certainly don't want Alex and John to feel that the soon-to-be-available Recovery is being touted over the Regen arbitrarily. That remains to be discovered and by direct experience.

    EJ did mention that he's designed it with very excellent "ingredients" (smile). So no sugars, starch, artificial ingredients, dyes. Just the best parts available. And while it might be viewed as self-serving for the creator of the Recovery to exclaim a desirable outcome with its use, I believe EJ represents whatever he advocates with honestly, sincerity and excellence, which has been my experience since 2011. And I felt confident about ordering the Recovery after our exchange.

    I believe Alex and John have also affirmed the use of high quality internals. It will come down to, I believe, a real-time experience of both devices and an assessment for which device is preferred, if at all.

    Some members have decided the Regen does nothing to improve their system. Others added a second Regen. Some members assessed the AQJB as taking away from the SQ, others, like myself employ two (2) AQJBs in addition to the Regen with excellent results. No consensus save the one you, I, etc. experience first hand.

    I came away from my email exchange with EJ with an understanding that the Recovery is not redundant for the W4S Dac2 DSDse, that is, duplicates what the Dac2 DSDse already provides. And, like Regen, the Recovery adds to the ultimate performance of the Dac2 DSDse by enhancing the SQ.

    After CES, EJ will benefit us with his first hand explanations that will hopefully give us a much better sense than marketing ads might. More to reveal.

    Best,
    Richard

  12. #12
    Richard - I believe that you should be commended for the way you are handling these inquiries, in such a professional and unbiased manner. It's all too common that some posters would make assumptions and jump to unsupported conclusions without doing the needed investigation or have first hand experience upon which to base their statements. Your straight forward and honest approach is very welcomed and much appreciated. Hopefully we can all benefit from your experience and that of other early adopters of the W4S Recovery in this thread.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio.bill View Post
    Richard - I believe that you should be commended for the way you are handling these inquiries, in such a professional and unbiased manner. It's all too common that some posters would make assumptions and jump to unsupported conclusions without doing the needed investigation or have first hand experience upon which to base their statements. Your straight forward and honest approach is very welcomed and much appreciated. Hopefully we can all benefit from your experience and that of other early adopters of the W4S Recovery in this thread.
    Hello Bill,

    Thank you for the kind words.

    One of the best advantage of being a CA member is the resource of having a community where hobbyist/enthusiasts/innovators can assemble, share information and direct experience to give one another insight into, a leg up about, how-to, a pathway to an outcome, exposure to music.

    I find I learn more when things go wrong then when they go right. I get more from giving than receiving. I greatly appreciate that innovators visit CA with more and more frequency to lend a leg up and allow us the benefits of personal service and support many other entities make it difficult to obtain. This exchange we participate in supports the perspective power is resource and resource is power.

    And while I never argue with perception, I am happy to learn from and share my experience and to be part of a community that serves the pursuit of excellence and enjoyment of music. The paths to that enjoyment continues to grow in both its complicity and simplicity and variety of what's "good enough". I can't think of a better time to be involved in computer audio and look forward to what dreams may come.

    For me, music's the thing; the equipment seduces.

    Always enjoy chatting with you,
    Richard

  14. #14
    In my communications with W4S they assured me that the recovery reclocker would provide sonic benefits on my DAC-2 DSD SE with femto clock by cleaning up the incoming USB signal. I ordered one on 12/18, but I haven't heard when they will shipping the unit other than early 2016.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Melvin's Avatar
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    I will also be watching this thread. My interest in the Recovery is a result of my experience with the newly released bLINK. If EJ and company can make Bluetooth sound like hifi via the bLINK, I'd really like to hear what they can do with USB via the Recovery!

    I've been interested in and kept an eye on W4S since their inception but the bLINK is the 1st product I've purchased from them. Why my interest? Besides the superb reviews and all the accolades they've received over the years, I still use my PS Audio Trio gear I purchased a few years ago.

    "Rick Cullen of Cullen Circuits used to be the primary builder for PS Audio. EJ Sarmento – who worked at Cullen Circuits with Rick – formed Wyred 4 Sound and made an immediate splash with his Ice-powered amplifiers." - John Darko

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrsub View Post
    In my communications with W4S they assured me that the recovery reclocker would provide sonic benefits on my DAC-2 DSD SE with femto clock by cleaning up the incoming USB signal. I ordered one on 12/18, but I haven't heard when they will shipping the unit other than early 2016.
    Hello jrsub,

    I understood the first batch of Recovery USB Reclocker units is scheduled for the end of January. If the best laid plans follow that schedule, I suppose you and I will be recovering by the beginning of February. Never too late to recover (smile).

    And yes to signal integrity after the Recovery over USB cable to the Dac (any Dac I imagine). Given our Dac2 DSDse with all its superb features, i.e. Galvanic Isolation and Femto Clock, custom Vishay Z-Foil resistors, ultra low noise discrete regulators (100+ times quieter and faster than the stock regulator), ultra-fast recovery Schottkey diodes, premium grade inductor, Rhodium plated Furutech fuse, etc., etc., which don't duplicate what the Recovery is designed to do but which add to improving other impediments to SQ and enhance performance.

    I experienced improvement with the Regen that were positive, but also undesirable characteristics (read change) to the SQ as in a brighter SQ which AQJBx2 ameliorated in the right direction. Not faulting the Regen, merely expressing my subjective experience which needed a recovery and the AQJB serendipitously delivered that recovery.

    What remains to be discovered is what the Recovery USB Reclocker will do for our systems. I am hoping we will learn more "inside" information from EJ when he returns from CES and finds the time to respond to my email asking for his input to help CA members understand what to expect and what is responsible for that expectation. In the end, or perhaps more appropriately, the beginning is what we experience sensorily and determine what the Recovery actually provides.

    "Once again, Wyred 4 Sound offers a fantastic audio product at an affordable price! Based on the success of the Remedy and known benefits of jitter reduction in a digital signal, we're proud to introduce the all-new Recovery USB reclocker. As it's name implies, the Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USB signal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!
    The Recovery is scheduled to ship at the beginning of 2016. We will notify you and provide tracking information when your Recovery is ready to ship.

    Picture is of prototype and subject to slight variations."
    image.jpeg


    Enjoying the music in the meantime,
    Richard
    Last edited by REShaman; 01-08-2016 at 11:23 AM.

  17. #17
    Have they released details on what the power supply is? The only mention in the description is an "External Wall type PSU" - I assume this is a SMPS?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean70 View Post
    Have they released details on what the power supply is? The only mention in the description is an "External Wall type PSU" - I assume this is a SMPS?
    Hello dean,

    Welcome to the thread.

    No mention. I'll add that to my email for EJ's follow-through. Your assumption is reasonable. I'll also inquire if other than 5V is permitted, i.e. 7 or 9 volts so that I can use my JS-2 LPS unless I keep the Regen in line and then will want a better SMPS than, perhaps, what may be supplied as original PS. Good question to pose. Thank you.

    Best,
    Richard

  19. #19
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    Timing is everything...

    Dear All:

    Family responsibilities are occupying EJ's time and attention, which is understandable given what our loved ones mean to us. But a response will be forthcoming. I told him we could wait for his priorities to get taken care as they should. And we'll be patient.

    I did add several requests for additional information including Dean's query about the power supply and added my other questions about what may be substituted for what may be included as the power supply and voltage requirements and options for different settings, if possible. Etc., etc.

    One question leads to a thousand. Hoping EJ gets back to us when it's ecological for him given his present circumstances.

    Thank you in advance for your understanding.

    Best,
    Richard

  20. #20
    Freshman Member cpvniii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REShaman View Post
    Dear All:

    Family responsibilities are occupying EJ's time and attention, which is understandable given what our loved ones mean to us. But a response will be forthcoming. I told him we could wait for his priorities to get taken care as they should. And we'll be patient.

    I did add several requests for additional information including Dean's query about the power supply and added my other questions about what may be substituted for what may be included as the power supply and voltage requirements and options for different settings, if possible. Etc., etc.

    One question leads to a thousand. Hoping EJ gets back to us when it's ecological for him given his present circumstances.

    Thank you in advance for your understanding.

    Best,
    Richard
    I also have the Curious USB on it's way. This will be an interesting comparison as I also run the AQJB and Regen into my DAC. Thanks for undertaking this process. Paul
    MacPro 24 GB/8TB / A+ and Pure Music / PS Audio Perfect Wave II / Regen /Intona USB Iso/curious USB / Emotive Audio Sira / PASS Aleph P / D-Sonic M3 600 mono's / MIT / Shunyata Alpha HC, Alpha Digital, Alpha Analogue, / FOCAL Maestro UTOPIA III's in red/black

    "In life's final analysis, one's relationship with his Maker is all that really matters."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpvniii View Post
    I also have the Curious USB on it's way. This will be an interesting comparison as I also run the AQJB and Regen into my DAC. Thanks for undertaking this process. Paul
    Hello Paul,

    Welcome to the thread.

    That's really good news. I believe we will have an opportunity to share our findings, perhaps, made more significant because of the sample size (small or otherwise) of those of us with several components in common. Subjective elements aside, our assessments will make for a variety of experiences to compare and contrast. I am looking forward to discovering what you and several other members discern with various configurations.

    How relevant our findings are for those members who have not yet made a commitment, at least this thread will serve as a resource for information about specific devices/components/cables. They can decide on their own whether to invest or not. Some components like the Curious Cable for USB Regen, I believe, are returnable according to Rob Woodland. At least the 0.8M full USB cable is. Alex and John allow for a return if not happy. Do have that correct? Not sure about the AQJB. Except Crutchfield has a 30 day return policy if I remember correctly. EJ's policy is otherwise or if returnable a restocking fee of 15% may apply.

    I am getting way ahead of what is to be discovered first hand. And, I am just thinking out loud how useful our own experiences may be for others interested in taking their system a bit further into tweak land. I know the Regen and the AQJB made a significant difference for me that was positive. I am so glad I took the chance no matter what the chatter was about the application of those devices, as my direct experience enhanced my enjoyment of the music at a time when I thought I was done with tweaking. Will I ever be done?

    Best,
    Richard

  22. #22
    Looking forward to the comparisons to the Regen.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angular Mo View Post
    Looking forward to the comparisons to the Regen.
    Hello Angular Mo,

    Welcome to the thread.

    Hopefully, many CA members will be posting their findings at this thread with a complement of different combinations/synergies to serve as examples of what takes us farther along that continuum to the enjoyment of music.

    Thanks to the innovations of many creative minds, we've come a long way since I joined CA in 2011...

    And many of those creative minds are members at CA who support us, and/or inform us.

    Best,
    Richard
    Last edited by REShaman; 01-09-2016 at 08:37 AM.

  24. #24
    Masters Level Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,539

    EJ Sarmento comments on the Remedy and Recovery...

    Dear All:

    Let me begin by telling you EJ is getting over a cold and Is a bit pre-occupied with getting well and family health needs. All the more reason to appreciate that EJ responded to our questions at this time. I am sure further questions can be forwarded at a time when he's feeling better.

    I requested that EJ provide us with a time line for the release of the Recovery and a comprehensive description of the details for the Recovery's application, function and implementation; furthermore, I included/forwarded specific questions embedded in several posts from CA members.

    The following comprises EJ's chosen response at this time in its totality with some personal remarks edited out (by me) for obvious reasons.

    Thank you, EJ, for taking the time under the present circumstances to respond to our inquiries. CA members feel free to continue to pose your questions at this thread or to email EJ directly.

    My efforts are intended to serve the interests of CA members and spare EJ from multiple email responses.

    Best,
    Richard

    From EJ Sarmento on The Remedy/Recovery:

    "First I would like to explain the reasoning for something like the Remedy and how that affects the signal. The Remedy takes a digital input and compares 64 samples of it to ensure they are the same, once that is verified, it stores it in a small buffer and then clocks that out using the better clocking and power supply that we provide. In addition to the input jitter that is removed, we power the circuit using really quiet regulators so we can send a much cleaner signal.


    The original implementation on the Remedy was for an Apple TV. I had a customer that kept urging me to fix the issue he was having with one of his ATVs. As you may know the digital output of these things are all over the place and is common for some to be acceptable and others to be so bad the DAC can't remain locked on it for more than 20 seconds. Being that we already had the re locking circuit we've been putting in Sonos connects for years, it was only natural for me to modify that circuit to suit the needs for the ATV. This is why the Remedy was born and not only eliminates the dropouts associated with the drifting clocks of the ATV but it helps provide a much cleaner signal for the DAC to process which results in better sonics.

    The Remedy is a universal device that can perfect many sources such as CD transports, TV optical outputs, bluetooth streamers (our bLINK has a remedy built in it), network streamers (Sonos, Apple TVs, Bluesound, etc). Most of the benefit from the Remedy comes from the fact that all of these devices have an inconsistency about them that varies the digital signal causing jitter and clock timing issues. On some, it's from WiFi delays, signal strength or even just low quality parts.

    What you gain from the Remedy can be further improved with the DAC and its Femto clock because having a better clock on the dac allows your digital to analog conversion to be more accurate. Consider the clock in the dac a heartbeat and with every cycle or ‘beat’ it decides what to do with the bits. If that cycle is loose or inconsistent, then the analog waveform will not properly mirror to what the digital signal is telling it to do. You can see that providing a steady signal to the dac is equally important to providing a steady conversion of that signal to the analog form. The DAC can only be as accurate as its clocking source (master clock) and if you provide a sloppy signal (digital input) for it to track with such a clock, it can only do so much with what it's given. On the flip side, if the signal fed to the DAC is higher quality than what the DAC is running from, then the limiting factor would be the DACs internal clock and in our case, this is where we put the femto clock in the DAC.

    Think of it like putting poor fuel quality (poor digital signal) in a sports car (DAC with femto). Surely it will run but not like it does with high octane race gas (signal after a remedy). So bottom line is that the clocking on the DAC must be as good or better to take advantage of what you feed it, otherwise you are limiting your signal at the conversion point (digital-analog) which is most important.

    Now to the USB input on the DAC. There is no doubt that we have an extremely good USB implementation on the DSDse which is galvanically isolated and for the most part immune to the computer it is connected to. However, we also have to remember that not all problems are associated with grounding or power rail noise, they are important but not our only concern. Similar to the Remedy, the Recovery intercepts the signal between the DAC and computer to not only isolate and provide clean power but to also supply a much more precisely clocked source for the USB encoded data. This results in a pre-conditioning of the signal before the DAC can take it and utilize its parts which allow it to perform better.


    In some cases, the improvements with the Remedy and Recovery can be black and white but really depends on the ability of the system as a whole to expose such signal improvements in what is being sent.

    In regard to the power supply:

    We will be including a SMPS as we do for our other small products but that is another upcoming addition to the line. We have been asked for years to develop an upgraded supply and I suspect that will be coming in the very near future. The Recovery will use a 9v supply but can utilize anything from 7-10v without a problem. Inside the unit is where most of the critical power supply filtering and regulation is happening."

  25. #25
    Interesting stuff!

    The part about the need for a more precisely clocked source for USB encoded data seems to contradict with what Daniel of Intona wrote:

    Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?
    Ahem, this clocking thing on USB is an ambivalent issue that I recognize on many forums. All transceiver and hub chips have their own PLLs inside and they all rely on internal RC oscillators to derive the bit clock. We didn't see any change on eye diagrams of the USB bus whether the transceivers where clocked with +-500ps Jittter or +-5ps Jitter on our LeCroy SDA. Anyway, we took special attention to all design aspects and price economy was never a subject.
    Who to believe?

    BTW. Is the galvanic isolation of the DSDse implemented "in full" so before the USB receiver in the DSDse or performed later upstream in the circuit (for example in an I2S or FPGA link)?

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