Thread: What next after Metric Halo LIO-8 (help)?

So I need some advice…what USB DACS should I consider for replacing my Metric Halo LIO-8? I do not want to go backwards in sound quality and prefer going forward (if possible). A random sampling of DACS that have crossed my mind over the last few days: AMR DP777, Berkeley Alpha 2 and USB (the LIO-8 replaced my Berkeley Alpha 1 based solely on sound quality so a little leery on this one), Ayre QB9, Meitner ($), EMM Labs ($). I very much prefer that the DAC have a high quality volume control and output stage capable of driving my amps via 2.5m of balanced cable (i.e. don't want to buy a high quality pre if I can avoid it). If I get rid of the LIO-8, I likely will also sell the MM and build a CAPS server.

You can see my system in the signature below. My musical tastes are fairly broad, though Jazz probably comprises 50% of my listening alone, the rest spread out among blues, folk, rock, flamenco, classical. I don’t listen to rap or heavy metal.

The sound attributes that draw me in are numerous and difficult to describe. Adjectives that “resonate” with me are: “organic”, “holistic”, “3D”, “natural detail”, “warm” rather than “analytical”. That said, in my 30 years in this hobby, I’ve found too much of any one thing is a very bad thing, so “balance” is important.

Thanks for your help.

As a fellow LIO-8 owner, this interests me. But I need to ask, are you just looking for greener grass or is there something about the Metric Halo that you don't like?

Originally Posted by DanRubin

As a fellow LIO-8 owner, this interests me. But I need to ask, are you just looking for greener grass or is there something about the Metric Halo that you don't like?

No, not really...I'm so frustrated with my change from a MBP w/SL to a new MM w/ML that I'm entertaining getting away from a Mac-centric DAC. My frustrations relate to sound quality changes between the two servers. I also don't like the pro interfaces, but really this isn't too big a deal if the sound quality hadn't suffered from the change in servers.

I replaced my LIO with a Lynx Hilo. CA member "earflappin" did a great review on it.

Originally Posted by jtwrace

I replaced my LIO with a Lynx Hilo. CA member "earflappin" did a great review on it.

What was your reason for changing to the HiLo, JT? Were you able to compare them before you made the the change? Thanks.

Have you considered any of the Wavelength DACs?

Another thought I had, the AMR DP777 is, besides a DAC, an Analog pre-amp. Another DAC similar to it is the Aesthetix Pandora, also with a pre-amp functionality. It may seem an odd suggestion, but I suggest you take a good long listen to a Peachtree Grand Pre as well.

Originally Posted by AudioDoctor

Have you considered any of the Wavelength DACs?

Yes, I did...forgot to mention Wavelength in my stream-of-conscious list above. Which models would you suggest?

Originally Posted by AudioDoctor

Another thought I had, the AMR DP777 is, besides a DAC, an Analog pre-amp. Another DAC similar to it is the Aesthetix Pandora, also with a pre-amp functionality. It may seem an odd suggestion, but I suggest you take a good long listen to a Peachtree Grand Pre as well.

Thanks for the Aesthetix Pandora suggestion and the Peachtree Grand PRE. I've got some research to do as I was not aware of either of these.

Chris really liked the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC Mk.II:

Computer Audiophile - PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MKII Review

Originally Posted by Germanboxers

Yes, I did...forgot to mention Wavelength in my stream-of-conscious list above. Which models would you suggest?

Well, it sorta depends on your budget. I have a Cosecant and am very happy with it. IIRC it retails for about $3500. The Crimson retails for ~$7000. Both can be had with a volume control.

Originally Posted by Germanboxers

Thanks for the Aesthetix Pandora suggestion and the Peachtree Grand PRE. I've got some research to do as I was not aware of either of these.

I went through this a while back myself and ended up with the Peachtree Grand Pre. I never did listen to an AMR or the Aesthetix DACs. I liked the Grand Pre enough after trying it that I bought one.

Originally Posted by Germanboxers

What was your reason for changing to the HiLo, JT? Were you able to compare them before you made the the change? Thanks.

Yes, owned both of them at the same time for months. I didn't use the LIO for all it's worth and was pretty surprised by the Hilo. Also, it does DSD which is super sweet.

FWIW the LIO replaced a Wavelength Crimson.

See here: Best DAC ever heard

As anotherULN8 owner my disappointment is not being able to try playback from a windows (ala caps3) or a Linux based computer. I expect the grass may not be greener on the other side but with only Mac drivers I will not know while I stay with the ULN8. Yes it would be good to not be tied to the MAc OS for playback.

Metric Halo support is first class but unfortunately drivers for windows or linux do not seem to be on thie agenda. I would be happy to see the console stay as Mac only. Simply keep a Mac to configure and save a boot state but then have the option to use a windows or Linux based box for playback, without adding another layer of complexity with a seperte USB to AES/EBU converter. No spdif here so those USB to spdif converts need not apply.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark

Originally Posted by twist222

As anotherULN8 owner my disappointment is not being able to try playback from a windows (ala caps3) or a Linux based computer. I expect the grass may not be greener on the other side but with only Mac drivers I will not know while I stay with the ULN8. Yes it would be good to not be tied to the MAc OS for playback.

Metric Halo support is first class but unfortunately drivers for windows or linux do not seem to be on thie agenda.
Mark

Agree on the bolded. Discovering the MH LIO-8 was a real treat for me and very easily bested my BADA Alpha1 at the time. An added plus was that the 8 channels and digital crossover ability allowed me to bypass the built in plate amp for the subwoofers in my original Zu Definitions Mk2. Now that I have the Mk4, this is no longer possible, nor do I feel it necessary given the leap in performance from Mk2 to Mk4.

Not sure if the grass is greener, but given Apple's seeming indifference to audio (understandable given the share of market) and what I perceive as a shift in standards of when a new product/software is ready for market (sort of loses the "it just works" high horse) makes me crave a decoupling from them.

The Aesthetix Pandora has really peaked my interest, but why no reviews or other chatter? A good friend had the Calypso line stage for many years and I was always impressed with the sound and build quality from Jim White. The fact that Jim has built such excellent analog gear over the years and was involved with Theta Digital prior to starting Aesthetix is reassuring. Anyone know if an inhome trial is possible? I wouldn't be just "testing the waters"; I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it was equivalent or better than the LIO-8 in my system.

Originally Posted by Germanboxers

Agree on the bolded. Discovering the MH LIO-8 was a real treat for me and very easily bested my BADA Alpha1 at the time. An added plus was that the 8 channels and digital crossover ability allowed me to bypass the built in plate amp for the subwoofers in my original Zu Definitions Mk2. Now that I have the Mk4, this is no longer possible, nor do I feel it necessary given the leap in performance from Mk2 to Mk4.

Not sure if the grass is greener, but given Apple's seeming indifference to audio (understandable given the share of market) and what I perceive as a shift in standards of when a new product/software is ready for market (sort of loses the "it just works" high horse) makes me crave a decoupling from them.

The Aesthetix Pandora has really peaked my interest, but why no reviews or other chatter? A good friend had the Calypso line stage for many years and I was always impressed with the sound and build quality from Jim White. The fact that Jim has built such excellent analog gear over the years and was involved with Theta Digital prior to starting Aesthetix is reassuring. Anyone know if an inhome trial is possible? I wouldn't be just "testing the waters"; I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it was equivalent or better than the LIO-8 in my system.

You have the Zu Def 4s??? Awesome! I am very interested in either those or the Druid V. I currently have a pair of the Zu Essence speakers. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Def 4s if you don't mind.

Originally Posted by AudioDoctor

You have the Zu Def 4s??? Awesome! I am very interested in either those or the Druid V. I currently have a pair of the Zu Essence speakers. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Def 4s if you don't mind.

The Def 4's are really outstanding, leaps better than the 2's I had before, with or without bypassing (and "contouring") the plate amp in the 2's. The biggest improvement, to me, is in the treble where the new Radian 850 supertweeter is light, airy, extended, and remarkably fast. The main drivers are much better as well, mating up perfectly with the supertweeter and subwoofers perfectly.

In short, the 4's are coherent top to bottom (one voice), sweet, but extended on top, and possessing of remarkable and effortless dynamic contrasts with the characteristic Zu "tone density". I could wax on about all the different speakers I've owned over 30 years, chasing one sonic attribute or another - almost always to the detriment of another - but I'll spare you. The Def4's allow me to "have my cake and eat it too".

BTW, I have the Druid MkIV's in the living room, serving TV and IPod duties via a Wadia IPod transport, PS Audio Digital Link III and Marantz integrated. You could say I became smitten with the listenability of Zu speakers about 4 years ago and don't plan to change...a first for me in this hobby.

I've heard the new Mk V's are supposed to be a giant leap forward as well. A good friend is considering buying a pair.

Originally Posted by Germanboxers

The Def 4's are really outstanding, leaps better than the 2's I had before, with or without bypassing (and "contouring") the plate amp in the 2's. The biggest improvement, to me, is in the treble where the new Radian 850 supertweeter is light, airy, extended, and remarkably fast. The main drivers are much better as well, mating up perfectly with the supertweeter and subwoofers perfectly.

In short, the 4's are coherent top to bottom (one voice), sweet, but extended on top, and possessing of remarkable and effortless dynamic contrasts with the characteristic Zu "tone density". I could wax on about all the different speakers I've owned over 30 years, chasing one sonic attribute or another - almost always to the detriment of another - but I'll spare you. The Def4's allow me to "have my cake and eat it too".

BTW, I have the Druid MkIV's in the living room, serving TV and IPod duties via a Wadia IPod transport, PS Audio Digital Link III and Marantz integrated. You could say I became smitten with the listenability of Zu speakers about 4 years ago and don't plan to change...a first for me in this hobby.

I've heard the new Mk V's are supposed to be a giant leap forward as well. A good friend is considering buying a pair.

That's pretty much what I thought. They are awesome and the decisions get harder. I guess a trip to Utah is in order.

There's the new Ayre QB9 DSD DAC just around the corner.

If you are considering EMM, then Playback designs machines can decode anything from Redbook, DXD, DSD any flavour, DoP or ASIO, Win or MAC. Recent review of the MPS-3 at Audiostream.

Have Mac for nearly two years for audio, but am coming around to JRMC as it's a better platform for my DAC and using the Mac mini on Windows

FWIW, I went from an Ayre QB-9/Bryston BHA-1 combo to a Lynx Hilo (with Sennheiser HD 800 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitors) and have never looked back. The high-quality 192/24 A-to-D converter for ripping vinyl (which is effectively free) makes the Hilo's value proposition that much more compelling.

A short update: I auditioned the Aesthetix Pandora with Volume Control for 3 weeks and found that, although very competent and fine sounding, the LIO-8 was equal or better top to bottom. Transparency was better, midrange tone and texture about equal, bass had more impact and texture, and the treble was more naturally detailed and "airier" with the LIO-8. All said, the differences were subtle, but clearly audible on careful longer listening.

I am still interested in potential Mac-decoupling digital options, but I will likely be very cautious before purchasing. The Lynx Hi-Lo and Mytek options sound like they have potential. Whatever I consider would have to be able to properly drive SET amps and my Atma-Sphere M60's directly. Any suggestions? I'm particularly interested from those who switched from the LIO-8 and continue to run direct from DAC to amps.

I'm currently experimenting with a Coincident Statement Linestage driving Coincident Frankenstein MkII 300B SET's as well as the Atma-Sphere M60's. This linestage is very transparent and it is very difficult to discern a difference from driving the amps direct via the LIO-8. At 300 hours, the subjective sense is that the only difference is that the image sizes are slightly smaller being driven by the Statement Linestage. This is a testament to the quality of the Statement Linestage, but also to the ability of the LIO-8 to adequately drive my amps direct. If you think about it, if the Statement changed the sound for better or worse, it would indicate either the LIO-8 was not able to drive the amps properly or the Statement Linestage was adding a coloration. That it is difficult to discern a difference should be high praise even if I choose to save the money and go direct.