Preamp /DAC's?

**deshapiro** · 05-06-2012, 01:49 PM

Hi All,
New to this forum, but not computer -based audio. I currently have an MSB Platinum DAC 3, with volume control and analog inputs. It's working as a preamp/DAC, since it is integrated to my home theater system. My computer is a home-built PC with a solid state hard drive and an external NAS. Sounds great, but of course, I've been reading.
I used to have a Wavelength Crimson, that sounded only average in my system. That was run with a Mac Mini. I had an early Berkeley Alpha DAC that was much better, but the MSB sounds great. It would cost a LOT to upgrade to a DAC 4, and I purely hate the media Center interface. J River is better, but I miss I-Tunes. This is a long -winded way of asking whether there are any preamp DACs out there that anybody may recommend.
I've also been reading about the Prism Orpheus/ Mac/Amarra combo. Any comments on that.

Thanks,
David Shapiro

**wisnon** · 05-06-2012, 02:57 PM

Lampizator 4 with volume control (analog). Under $6K

"Just to clear it for some folks – the LampizatOr DAC has an analog volume control – the purest one in existence. Just two resistors in the path at a time. It is controlled by a microprocessor switching of the relay-resistor ladder. Thats the purest way I know of. Thats why the DAC sounds so good with power amps. The PRE is unnecessary and we save $$$ when removing the preamp and IC cables. Lukasz Fikus"

also from the Parttimeaudiophile:
"In my rather different system, I found the Lampizator to be … well … magical. Yes, the bass was a bit loose. In fact, in the sample I was evaluating, I found it elevated — and I quite liked it. But the thing that caught my ear was this “lit from within” quality which I’d seen described in posts, but had never heard in person before. The Lampi sounds different.

And yes, the tubed AMR DP-777 DAC has some of this. I’m getting an AMR DP-777 this summer from Avatar, so I’ll have some direct comparisons then."

I am not sure if the AMR is a pre-Dac, but it too is very highly regarded and costs $5K. Seems to have less midrange tube glow than the Lampi, but has 2 DAc chips, one for 16/44 and one for hires.

Nad M51 with digital volume control...no bit loss until below -66db. Circa ($2k).
This up samples to 35bit 844khz in PWM, so lots of extra bit cane be dropped before music is affected. Reviews are very good.

**ecwl** · 05-06-2012, 05:12 PM

Not sure what DAC upgrade would be inexpensive yet offer better sound than what you already have. I presume you've looked into power conditioning and isolation, which can be cheaper upgrades. Not sure if your PC is going into MSB via asynchronous USB or S/PDIF. Could be another cheaper upgrade there.

As for J River, what about it do you dislike more than iTunes? As I found both to be similar. Do you just prefer Remote for iPad/iPhone? You can always try the JRemote app.

**deshapiro** · 05-06-2012, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by ecwl

Not sure what DAC upgrade would be inexpensive yet offer better sound than what you already have. I presume you've looked into power conditioning and isolation, which can be cheaper upgrades. Not sure if your PC is going into MSB via asynchronous USB or S/PDIF. Could be another cheaper upgrade there.

As for J River, what about it do you dislike more than iTunes? As I found both to be similar. Do you just prefer Remote for iPad/iPhone? You can always try the JRemote app.

I have electrical isolation into a dedicated equitech board. I have extensive acoustical room treatments, as was suggested by an engineer who also calibrated 3 subwoofers into my room, with EQ and a Bryston crossover. The sound is actually very good.
The connection to the MSB dac is ethernet via an MSB proprietary connection. The problem is that to upgrade and keep the existing configuration with MSB would be a LOT of money. Seems to me that DAC technology should be getting cheaper. not more expensive.

David

**earflappin** · 05-08-2012, 08:43 AM

David,

Jon Marsh is near the end of a comparative review of the new NAD M51, BADA/ALPHA USB and MH LIO-8. You can check out his thread at: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...4&page=3&pp=35.

My front end set up is MM>Firewire>LIO-8. I preferred the LIO-8 to the first generation BADA which I owned for about a year, but I have not heard the BADA2 fed with a ALPHA USB. The Prism Orpheus you mentioned is a near functional equivalent to the LIO-8 - both compete directly in the pro audio market which is the primary market for Metric Halo and Prism. Both of these units offer integrated DAC/ADC/DSP/PRE capabilities.

The NAD M51 is a refreshing new entrant to the digital market and is getting rave reviews. The M51 is also an integrated PRE/DAC and has two HDMI inputs as well as asynch USB as well as AES/SPDIF. The NAD 390DD takes the M51 a step further by combining amplification in the same box.

The LIO-8 is about $3-3.5K street price, NAD M51 is around $2K and the BADA2/ALPHA USB is around $7K. The challenge in the high end audio market, as you likely know, is the relative small size of volume shipments across which the high end "pure play" companies have to recover their R&D and general overheads. Companies like Metric Halo (and other pro audio companies) and NAD whose primary markets are much larger have a real advantage which allows them to keep their prices lower and therefore, offer better price/performance.

**firedog** · 05-08-2012, 02:29 PM

I don't know how much it means, but at Goodwins Highend in Boston (sells both the BADA and the NADM51) I inquired about auditioning DACs on a visit to Boston and they said the M51 is not in the same league as the Berkeley DAC.

**earflappin** · 05-08-2012, 02:49 PM

I wouldn't expect them to be in the same league given the BADA/ALPHA USB is over 3x the price. I do know many have reported that the M51 performance is improved with an upstream high quality USB/AES-SPDIF converter, in the same way the BADA is improved by using such a device. Pro audio gear gets short (if any) script in audiophiledom so one rarely hears about objective comparisons between equipment like the BADA and LIO-8. That is what is so interesting to me about what Jon is doing. I will be shocked if he finds the M51 to surpass either the BADA or LIO-8, but who knows for sure, especially with a high quality upstream converter in place.

**ted_b** · 05-08-2012, 02:54 PM

David,
Welcome to CA!

You also might want to peruse this 150+ post thread dealing with a similar issue:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/th...eal%22-preamp?

**goldenpiggy** · 05-09-2012, 01:00 AM

I use the Prism Orpheus but with Pure Music on a Mac. Sound quality is truly top notch. I think you can't go wrong with how the Orpheus sounds.

I do not use volume control on the Orpheus or in software. I run the Orpheus (balanced, of course) into an Accuphase preamp which uses a current summing volume control circuitry. I get great resolution at even low volumes.

Good luck with your selection...

**deshapiro** · 05-09-2012, 08:20 PM

I'm very interested in your setup. Is it possible to run analog inputs into the orpheus? I can't really tell from the reviews. Of course, there is no local dealer. How was the setup.

Thanks,
David

**Paul.Raulerson** · 05-09-2012, 10:35 PM

Anyone have any idea how the M51 sounds in comparison to the 390DD?

Paul

**woodcans** · 05-11-2012, 03:49 PM

I can highly recommend the Off-Ramp 4 or 5/NAD m51 combo. In my system these two units make phenomenal music. The digital volume control on the m51 is stellar.

**earflappin** · 05-11-2012, 06:44 PM

How would you describe the level of improvement made by the OR versus stock USB and have you tried other USB/AES-SPDIF converters? Thanks.

**woodcans** · 05-12-2012, 11:25 AM

The OR4/5 is a significant improvement over the NAD's USB input. To me it is definitely worth the extra money. I have an Audiophilleo that is
good, but the OR is unquestionably superior.

**woodcans** · 05-12-2012, 11:26 AM

To be clear, the M51's USB input is not bad by any means, but the OR takes it to another level.

**earflappin** · 05-13-2012, 12:03 PM

Woodcans, thanks for that information. Seems several Aussies are high on the OR....but has anyone you know of compared the Overdrive DAC to the PDX, M51, etc? I don't see many posts about it.

**fjc1z1** · 05-13-2012, 03:18 PM

My issue is I currently have a quality dac(Berkeley Alpha 1) and line-phono (Artemis LA1-Artemis PH1).
I have been considering an integrated amp with dac and moving coil phono) or a preamp with dac and moving coil. The Accuphase
E560 integrated amp option. I considered the Bryston preamp option but you can only get phono or dac --you can not get both.

I gather there may be an option with some of the proaudio options but I am very very non technical so I have not been able to figure that out yet. I realize I will be losing sound quality and I am willing to do so for convenience at this point.

Any suugestions or advice would be appreciated. I use very efficient speakers so the 30 watts per channel of the Accuphase is more than enough. thank you

**woodcans** · 05-13-2012, 04:24 PM

I don't know of anyone who has an Overdrive DAC. I would love to hear some comparisons as well. I considered an Overdrive, but I use every input on my m51 (except the USB ;-)) on a routine basis.

Originally Posted by earflappin

Woodcans, thanks for that information. Seems several Aussies are high on the OR....but has anyone you know of compared the Overdrive DAC to the PDX, M51, etc? I don't see many posts about it.

**deshapiro** · 05-13-2012, 05:39 PM

Just heard the MSB DAC 4 Diamond in my system, run with JRiver. OMFG!! At almost $30,000, it ought to be great. I really want to hear some other combos, in particular the Orpheus I speculated about. The problem is that nobody has these setups for demo.

David

**earflappin** · 05-13-2012, 05:44 PM

David, I sent you a private message several days ago....

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