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  1. #1

    Could not get Ayre QB9 DSD to enter standby mode with MBP

    I'm not able to get my QB9 DSD to enter standby mode. My dip-switch settings are as follows:
    - Listen
    - Power A
    - Disp On
    - Rsrv B

    In Power A mode, DAC should be in standby mode (green dot) until a computer is on, at which point, the unit should turn into “operating mode” (3 dashes), and song’s bit rate will be displayed when music is played.

    I connected the unit with MacBook Pro Mid-2012. The problem is, I could not get the unit into sleep mode. When the computer is shut down, DAC did not enter sleep mode, but stayed in operating mode (3 dashes) all the time. Only way to make it enter the sleep mode was unplugging the USB cable from the computer.

    Please note that MBP was completely off, and I also tried disconnecting the adapter cable feeding the Mac. None of the above made the QB9 to enter sleep mode. Please also note that this MBP has 2 USB ports and both gave me the same result.

    I think this is not the way the unit should function. What do you guys think?

    I have yet to try Power B, but in the case Power B functions as described in the manual i.e. the unit will stay “off” until a song is played, only then, it will turn on, please kindly advise whether there is any disadvantage, sonically, operating in this mode?

    I understand that Power A will yield better sonic performance by having the DAC in “operating mode” all the time (that the computer is on), as oppose to Power B where the unit will be off, hence, no power to certain parts of the circuit, until some music is played. I don't know if my understanding is correct. If there is absolutely no performance penalty by using Power B, I'm happy to operate the unit in this mode.

    Alternatively, if I continue using the unit in Mode A, would there be any adverse effect (to the DAC), if the unit is left in "operating mode" (3 dashes) all the time (even when my mac is off, where the DAC should be in standby mode)? Two things I can think of is overheating (I live in a hot climate area where it can get pretty hot during the day), and wearing out the information display screen (I don't know if the unit can develop any "burn in" if the display is left in operating mode (3 dashes) all the time.

    I also directed this question to Ayre via its online contact form but have yet to receive any response. I know that Charles is also a member of this forum and it would be great if I can get his advice, so I post my questions here too.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    I talked with a guy who also owns the QB9 DSD and I was told that his unit also did the same with Mac Mini (not entering sleep mode when Mac Mini is off). It seems there may be something to do with USB voltage of Apple machine?

  3. #3
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    I'll give this a try with my MacBook Pro retina in the morning.
    Chris Connaker

    Founder
    Computer Audiophile

    Listening Room | System Details

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
    I'll give this a try with my MacBook Pro retina in the morning.
    Thanks Chris, for the help.

    I’d be interested to see if you will encounter the same issue with Mac Retina. If so, it may be the USB port of Apple devices that causes this. Maybe when the system is off, the port still supplies some current and the DAC picks up the current and thinks the computer is still on (but I highly doubt that MacBook Pro will do this).

    I have yet to try it with my PC (desktop), but will do so tonight to see if the DAC still refuses to go to sleep connecting with the PC. I was also told by a guy who paired it with his MacMini that he also had this problem.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Axiom05's Avatar
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    The USB ports on my 2012 Mac mini are always active even when the computer is asleep. This is not a problem. My Concero is always "on."
    Intel NUC i3 (Linux), MPD (Linux), Soundirok (iPad Air 2), Ayre QB-9DSD, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Classe CA-M300 (pair), B&W 802 Diamond (D2), RealTraps acoustic treatments

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    Thanks Chris, for the help.

    I’d be interested to see if you will encounter the same issue with Mac Retina. If so, it may be the USB port of Apple devices that causes this. Maybe when the system is off, the port still supplies some current and the DAC picks up the current and thinks the computer is still on (but I highly doubt that MacBook Pro will do this).

    I have yet to try it with my PC (desktop), but will do so tonight to see if the DAC still refuses to go to sleep connecting with the PC. I was also told by a guy who paired it with his MacMini that he also had this problem.
    PrTv,

    On a related /unrelated matter, my KEF X330A self powered speakers with internal Dacs and AB amps connected to a Mac Mini 2011 are supposed to turn off after 25 minutes of no signal, but doesn't. I spoke to KEF who confirmed that a trickle charge from the Mac Mini prevents that feature from working and the speakers stay powered until I actually shutdown the Mac Mini. Relying on no signal from the Mac Mini as the trigger is ineffectual. The Mac Mini has to be shutdown. Perhaps, with your Dac this may be the same scenario. As previously posted by Axiom05, the USB ports are always powered until the shutdown.

    Offered in support, if not OT.

    Best,
    Richard

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom05 View Post
    The USB ports on my 2012 Mac mini are always active even when the computer is asleep. This is not a problem. My Concero is always "on."
    You mean that, even the unit is shut down, the USB port(s) is still active, and hence, your DAC picks up the current on is always on?

    I can understand if the computer will still supply current to USB port(s) in "sleep mode", but in complete shutdown, I don't see any reason why we need the port to be active.

    BTW, I got one more confirmation from a guy who tested QB9 DSD with an iMac. Dac also refuses to go to sleep even when the iMac is shut down (but still pluged in, of course).

  8. #8
    Thanks for the info.

    I would not be surprised if the port(s) is still active in sleep mode (e.g. I put the computer to sleep either by picking "sleep command" or closing the lid). My problem is that, even when I completely shut down my Mac (press a power button and pick "shutdown" command), and my mac is completely off, the DAC still refuses to go to sleep mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by REShaman View Post
    PrTv,

    On a related /unrelated matter, my KEF X330A self powered speakers with internal Dacs and AB amps connected to a Mac Mini 2011 are supposed to turn off after 25 minutes of no signal, but doesn't. I spoke to KEF who confirmed that a trickle charge from the Mac Mini prevents that feature from working and the speakers stay powered until I actually shutdown the Mac Mini. Relying on no signal from the Mac Mini as the trigger is ineffectual. The Mac Mini has to be shutdown. Perhaps, with your Dac this may be the same scenario. As previously posted by Axiom05, the USB ports are always powered until the shutdown.

    Offered in support, if not OT.

    Best,
    Richard

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I would not be surprised if the port(s) is still active in sleep mode (e.g. I put the computer to sleep either by picking "sleep command" or closing the lid). My problem is that, even when I completely shut down my Mac (press a power button and pick "shutdown" command), and my mac is completely off, the DAC still refuses to go to sleep mode.
    Point taken. I believe you posted previously shutdown was not effective and that you had to disconnect power. Sorry. In my case, the KEF X300A will go into stand-by after Mac Mini shutdown. BTW: I leave my W4S Dac "on" 24/7 without consequences which designer confirmed is not a problem.

    Best,
    Richard

  10. #10
    Junior Member Axiom05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    You mean that, even the unit is shut down, the USB port(s) is still active, and hence, your DAC picks up the current on is always on?

    I can understand if the computer will still supply current to USB port(s) in "sleep mode", but in complete shutdown, I don't see any reason why we need the port to be active.

    BTW, I got one more confirmation from a guy who tested QB9 DSD with an iMac. Dac also refuses to go to sleep even when the iMac is shut down (but still pluged in, of course).
    Sorry, no, when the computer is shut down the Concero is off.
    Intel NUC i3 (Linux), MPD (Linux), Soundirok (iPad Air 2), Ayre QB-9DSD, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Classe CA-M300 (pair), B&W 802 Diamond (D2), RealTraps acoustic treatments

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by REShaman View Post
    Point taken. I believe you posted previously shutdown was not effective and that you had to disconnect power. Sorry. In my case, the KEF X300A will go into stand-by after Mac Mini shutdown. BTW: I leave my W4S Dac "on" 24/7 without consequences which designer confirmed is not a problem.

    Best,
    Richard
    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom05 View Post
    Sorry, no, when the computer is shut down the Concero is off.

    No need to apology. I appreciate your help.

    I just talked with a local dealer where I bought this unit from. The dealer tested a number of QB6 DSD(s) it had on hand and confirmed that the unit(s) they tested also stuck in [- - -] mode (operating mode), when plugged in to iMac / MacBook/ and MacMini, even when the computer(s) it plugged into was completely shut down. This seems to happen only when QB6 is paired with a Mac, as the Dac switches to sleep mode properly when paired with a PC.

    I hope that this can be fixed via firmware update.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    No need to apology. I appreciate your help.

    I just talked with a local dealer where I bought this unit from. The dealer tested a number of QB6 DSD(s) it had on hand and confirmed that the unit(s) they tested also stuck in [- - -] mode (operating mode), when plugged in to iMac / MacBook/ and MacMini, even when the computer(s) it plugged into was completely shut down. This seems to happen only when QB6 is paired with a Mac, as the Dac switches to sleep mode properly when paired with a PC.

    I hope that this can be fixed via firmware update.
    PrTv,

    Have you contacted Charles Hansen or his support staff to request a "fix" that will enable stand-by if desired when the Mac is in sleep mode/shutdown? In ant case, wish you well for a solution.
    Best,
    Richard

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by REShaman View Post
    PrTv,

    Have you contacted Charles Hansen or his support staff to request a "fix" that will enable stand-by if desired when the Mac is in sleep mode/shutdown? In ant case, wish you well for a solution.
    Best,
    Richard
    Already PMed Charles with a link to this thread.

    I did some experiments and think I found a temporary solution. I found that if I did not shut down the computer but, instead, closed the lid (sent MBP into sleep), QB9 seemed to switch to sleep mode properly. It woke up and functioned normally as expected every time I opened the lid.

    So for now, instead of shutting down the computer after each listening session, I will just send the computer to sleep. Mac is very efficient when it comes to sleep mode and I can even keep the adapter connected to charge battery and QB9 doesn't seem to mind that (doesn't wake it up).

    Well, it's kinda work for now, but it'd be great if Ayre would do something so that this gem actually works flawlessly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    Already PMed Charles with a link to this thread.

    I did some experiments and think I found a temporary solution. I found that if I did not shut down the computer but, instead, closed the lid (sent MBP into sleep), QB9 seemed to switch to sleep mode properly. It woke up and functioned normally as expected every time I opened the lid.

    So for now, instead of shutting down the computer after each listening session, I will just send the computer to sleep. Mac is very efficient when it comes to sleep mode and I can even keep the adapter connected to charge battery and QB9 doesn't seem to mind that (doesn't wake it up).

    Well, it's kinda work for now, but it'd be great if Ayre would do something so that this gem actually works flawlessly.
    Persistence Rewards. Good fortune.
    Best,
    Richard

  15. #15
    HELLO EVERYONE!

    Please be aware that the UPDATED DSD versions of the QB-9 and DX-5 have their own +5V power supply so that you don't need a top-quality computer with a super clean 5 volt supply for the USB power -- we have that built in now.

    BUT that changes the way that the firmware logic "thinks" about things". It is ONLY A PROBLEM WITH THE DISPLAY, NOT THE UNIT.

    We need to revise the firmware or the instructions or both. Working on it now. Will post more later today.

    Thanks for your patience.
    Charles Hansen
    Dumb Analog Hardware Engineer
    Founder and Designer
    Ayre Acoustics, Inc.

  16. #16
    HELLO ALL!

    Still looking at things, in the mean while here are some facts:

    1) In ALL states, ALL of the USB and Audio circuitry is powered up so everything is always warmed up and ready for great sound within 30 minute after connecting the AC mains.

    2) Most LED's are rated at an operating life of 20,000 hour or more, but that is at MAXIMUM CURRENT and the time to reach 80% of the original brightness. We normally run our LED's at around 1/10 of their maximum current, so the lifespan should be between 50 an 100 years. Please do not worry about "burn in" on any of our LEDs.

    3) As many posters have indicated, newer laptops have changed the way that the USB ports behave in standby and/or sleep modes. This may affect the operation of the indicator LED's. We will run some tests here to provide additional information.

    Thanks,
    Charles Hansen
    Dumb Analog Hardware Engineer
    Founder and Designer
    Ayre Acoustics, Inc.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PrTv View Post
    I'm not able to get my QB9 DSD to enter standby mode. My dip-switch settings are as follows:
    - Listen
    - Power A
    - Disp On
    - Rsrv B
    Hello

    First, I would simply just change the power switch to "B".

    Then the - - - lines will only show up when your DAC is receiving an active audio signal from the computer. This will be only briefly and/or between songs, as it monitors the "Active" line instead of the "Link" line. Then it will stay in - - - mode for 30 after the music ends and then return to the single green LED by a TIMER instead of looking at any signals that are present (or missing! as the case may be).

    Second, PLEASE send us the SERiAL NUMBER from the rear panel of your unit so that we can investigate more thoroughly. Thanks!
    Charles Hansen
    Dumb Analog Hardware Engineer
    Founder and Designer
    Ayre Acoustics, Inc.

  18. #18
    Thanks for your extensive explanation Charles, really appreciate it.

    Based on your response, it seems not switching to the sleep mode is not a big deal. Will wait for a firmware update to fix this though. I will PM to you my serial number for your further investigation.

    BTW, since you're here, I have one more thing I'd like to ask. It's about compatible fuses that I can use with the unit. My unit is 220v version, and I checked the fuse installed in the unit and found that it's 125mA /250V, Slow-Blow type. I planned to replace it with an audiophile-grade fuse, but couldn't find any supplier selling that kind of fuse (lowest value is 250mA from Hifi-Tuning Supreme).

    I'd like to know whether it's safe to use 250mA fuse with the QB-DSD. I already asked this question through Ayre's online contact from and the person responding to me was Michael. He said 500mA fuse can be used with the 220V unit. This is contrary with the value of the fuse already installed in the unit. So please kindly advise.

    Again, thanks for your response above. It really clears thing up for me (and other QB9 DSD users too).

  19. #19
    About the fuse, I did some research and found this thread Ayre QB-9 Fuses

    It made me even more confused. Guys in that thread said their units came with 250mA fuses, but mine is 125mA. Further, Michael of Ayre even said the 220V unit came with 500mA fuse.

    Man!, what type of fuse I can use with my unit?

    I would not be worry too much if QB9 is made to function similar to many other DACs, which I can turn off once I don't need them. For the QB9, as we all know, it will not sound as good if it is not left on for several hours, or days. Since the unit needs to be constantly on, I don't want to use improper fuse with it.

  20. #20
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    I have the 96KHz version and have the same issue with my Windows 7PC. But, I also happen to have a keyboard with a light and display that is also supposed to turn off when computer is shut down. I wake up and find QB-9 in --- mode and keyboard backlight flickering. Unplug qb-9 usb and then replug and it goes right to sleep mode. Same problem with my last PC model. These USB ports are just not inactive when you expect them to be. They glitch and send some signal. Other devices are affected.

    You can also fix it by turning off the PC at the PSU, depriving the ports of all power. I suspect this issue crops up with certain motherboards/chipsets.

  21. #21
    Freshman Member satbox's Avatar
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    Just received my new QB-9 DSD and all is OK (it sounds really great!!!) except that I have the same issue: in Power A mode, the QB-9 does not enter in standby mode when I shutdown my CAPS V3 Carbon, even when I disconnect the main power of the CAPS! The only way to force it to enter in standby mode is to disconnect the USB cable.
    When I shutdown the CAPS, the QB-9 enter in standby mode for a very little moment (little green led during 1 sec or so) and then returns to operating mode (3 dashes)...
    Chris, do you have the same behaviour with the CAPS V3 Carbon and the QB-9 DSD?

  22. #22
    Freshman Member satbox's Avatar
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    Hello everybody,

    Here is a short feedback after the installation of my new QB-9 DSD:
    -First of all, the sound quality is terrific!, better than with my previous DAC (Bryston BDA-1), more analog, more natural.
    -In Rsrv A mode, without the Thesycon driver, my CAPS V3 Carbon (built following Chris specifications except that I don't use the Red Wine Audio PSU) does not recognize the QB-9 (I can see the QB-9 in Device Manager but I have a "driver not found" message).
    -In Rsrv B mode with the Thesycon driver all is OK.
    -In Power A mode, when I shutdown the CAPS, the QB-9 does not enter in standby mode (see my previous post). So, like other users in the forum, I need to use the Power B mode.
    -Try to place a damping plate on the case, it has a nice effect on the sound quality.

    I noticed that when the QB-9 is in standby mode, the DAC case remains relatively hot (not really hot, let's say warm), especially on the back side of the case. Is it normal? In the long run, would there be any adverse effect to the DAC? Moreover, it is not ideal concerning the power consumption...

  23. #23
    Junior Member Axiom05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satbox View Post
    I noticed that when the QB-9 is in standby mode, the DAC case remains relatively hot (not really hot, let's say warm), especially on the back side of the case. Is it normal? In the long run, would there be any adverse effect to the DAC? Moreover, it is not ideal concerning the power consumption...
    For optimum sound quality, the internal circuitry of the QB9 is always on. Power consumption is only 20W. A small price to pay for such wonderful sound.
    Intel NUC i3 (Linux), MPD (Linux), Soundirok (iPad Air 2), Ayre QB-9DSD, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Classe CA-M300 (pair), B&W 802 Diamond (D2), RealTraps acoustic treatments

  24. #24
    Freshman Member satbox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom05 View Post
    For optimum sound quality, the internal circuitry of the QB9 is always on. Power consumption is only 20W. A small price to pay for such wonderful sound.
    Thank you for your answer! Just to confirm that it's not a problem with my QB-9, is your QB-9 case also remains warm in standby mode?

  25. #25
    Junior Member Axiom05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satbox View Post
    Thank you for your answer! Just to confirm that it's not a problem with my QB-9, is your QB-9 case also remains warm in standby mode?
    Yes, the top cover is slightly warm to the touch, this is normal. BTW, it may not be a good idea to cover the top case of the unit as this may prevent heat dissipation. I am not sure what you meant about using a damping plate. I would allow at least two inches of clearance between the top of the QB9 and anything above it.
    Intel NUC i3 (Linux), MPD (Linux), Soundirok (iPad Air 2), Ayre QB-9DSD, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Classe CA-M300 (pair), B&W 802 Diamond (D2), RealTraps acoustic treatments

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