Thread: Best DAC ever heard

Is this due in the near future?

Originally Posted by Sumflow

If you have a Dac with only one pair of RCA out. Is there some what to put on a spliter so that you can hook up a sub as well as provide two lines to your amplifier?

Sum flow - see Adding a Sub in a power amp direct DAC configuration.

Originally Posted by abqnmusa

Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 is the best I have heard.
The sound quality meets my needs nicely. DAC2 pre-amp function is powering Wyred 4 Sounds ST-1000 amplifier to a B&W 802S speakers.

I concur. Different system setup. Very happy with W4S Dac2. Although, it is my first dac so nothing to compare it with.
Best,
Richard

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Chris,

Any update on when a new review may come out? I am waiting with great anticipation as well.

Thanks!

Joe

Hi Joe - A bit of a delay on publishing the review. I previously said June 12 was the target date, but I'm looking at a little delay. I will however publish a different DAC review Monday or Tuesday. Thanks for your patience.

I have not heard it yet!

Thanks for the kind words Joe.

I'll be enjoying my first Father's day this weekend!

Originally Posted by abqnmusa

Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 is the best I have heard.
The sound quality meets my needs nicely. DAC2 pre-amp function is powering Wyred 4 Sounds ST-1000 amplifier to a B&W 802S speakers.

I too have the W4S DAC 2 and used to run it direct into a parasound halo a21 amp and it sounded good. However, after reading other threads I decided to try running into a preamp and the difference was amazing. Much more slam and impact!!! The a21 input voltage required 1 volt and the DAC 2 does not hit 1 volt output until in the 50's on the display (voltage is in back of DAC 2 manual). So I now run the DAC 2 in fixed mode set at 65. Not sure what the ST-1000 input voltage is but may be something to look into to make sure your getting the most out of the DAC 2.

Originally Posted by ckpiv

I too have the W4S DAC 2 and used to run it direct into a parasound halo a21 amp and it sounded good. However, after reading other threads I decided to try running into a preamp and the difference was amazing. Much more slam and impact!!! The a21 input voltage required 1 volt and the DAC 2 does not hit 1 volt output until in the 50's on the display (voltage is in back of DAC 2 manual). So I now run the DAC 2 in fixed mode set at 65. Not sure what the ST-1000 input voltage is but may be something to look into to make sure your getting the most out of the DAC 2.

If I may, Clint helped me set up my Dac2 last year along with the STP-SE and SX1000s (which required nothing special). Clint recommended that as you discovered directly from your own experience, and I was aware as I had also ordered the STP-SE, that Dac2 to preamp provided the deeper bass response etc. by being connected to a preamp instead of direct to amp and further that fixed mode setting was best when set to low volume at 5 and the upper volume to 55 providing the best range as above 55 with this arrangement, the response would decline in clarity. He was correct.

For me, it rewarding to read about one like yourself who doing due diligence to find the optimal setting discovers the response improvement. There are tweaks that are the difference that make a difference without going to the degree of modding. Not that doing so is uncalled for.

Best,
Richard

Originally Posted by REShaman

Originally Posted by ckpiv

I too have the W4S DAC 2 and used to run it direct into a parasound halo a21 amp and it sounded good. However, after reading other threads I decided to try running into a preamp and the difference was amazing. Much more slam and impact!!! The a21 input voltage required 1 volt and the DAC 2 does not hit 1 volt output until in the 50's on the display (voltage is in back of DAC 2 manual). So I now run the DAC 2 in fixed mode set at 65. Not sure what the ST-1000 input voltage is but may be something to look into to make sure your getting the most out of the DAC 2.

If I may, Clint helped me set up my Dac2 last year along with the STP-SE and SX1000s (which required nothing special). Clint recommended that as you discovered directly from your own experience, and I was aware as I had also ordered the STP-SE, that Dac2 to preamp provided the deeper bass response etc. by being connected to a preamp instead of direct to amp and further that fixed mode setting was best when set to low volume at 5 and the upper volume to 55 providing the best range as above 55 with this arrangement, the response would decline in clarity. He was correct.

For me, it rewarding to read about one like yourself who doing due diligence to find the optimal setting discovers the response improvement. There are tweaks that are the difference that make a difference without going to the degree of modding. Not that doing so is uncalled for.

Best,
Richard

Richard,

I could not believe what a difference it made putting the preamp back in. It took the DAC 2 to a whole different level

@Richard

Was posting reply on phone and noticed my reply got cut off?

Anyway, I am currently running the DAC 2 at 0/65 but will give your settings of 5/55 a try that were recommended by Clint at W4S. The 0/65 settings sound great but it seems that the DAC 2 runs hotter than I remember so maybe the 5/55 will be optimal. I appreciate your feed back and CA contributions. Enjoy the music

Thanks,
Chuck

Originally Posted by ckpiv

@Richard

Was posting reply on phone and noticed my reply got cut off?

Anyway, I am currently running the DAC 2 at 0/65 but will give your settings of 5/55 a try that were recommended by Clint at W4S. The 0/65 settings sound great but it seems that the DAC 2 runs hotter than I remember so maybe the 5/55 will be optimal. I appreciate your feed back and CA contributions. Enjoy the music

Thanks,
Chuck

My pleasure, Chuck. Not only did Clint tell me this, but, when my STP-SE started acting up because of a software programming problem that affected some STP-SE preamps, I had to ship my preamp to W4S so that EJ could "make better" and correct the problem. During the period without my preamp, of course, I made the requisite changes to the Dac2 to allow for a direct connection to my amps. The SQ was fine. After EJ shipped back my preamp (with the problem corrected), I returned the preamp to the system and reconfigured the settings back to fixed and 5/55. Hello! There was a definitive difference (read improvement in SQ) in quality with the insertion of the preamp back into the system. I realize that I will read from others that they prefer Dac2 straight to amp. I am not one of them and concur with your assessment.

For comparison, my Dac2 in an open BDI tall component stand runs cool (not even warm) in fixed mode 5/55 USB with USB from Mac Mini to Dac2 and HDMI from Oppo BDP-95 to Atlona HD577 De-embedder to Dac2 via S/PDIF BNC coax and XLR out of Dac2 to STP-SE on its own shelf below the Dac2.

Wishing you the same enjoyment,
Richard

Originally Posted by REShaman

My pleasure, Chuck. Not only did Clint tell me this, but, when my STP-SE started acting up because of a software programming problem that affected some STP-SE preamps, I had to ship my preamp to W4S so that EJ could "make better" and correct the problem. During the period without my preamp, of course, I made the requisite changes to the Dac2 to allow for a direct connection to my amps. The SQ was fine. After EJ shipped back my preamp (with the problem corrected), I returned the preamp to the system and reconfigured the settings back to fixed and 5/55. Hello! There was a definitive difference (read improvement in SQ) in quality with the insertion of the preamp back into the system. I realize that I will read from others that they prefer Dac2 straight to amp. I am not one of them and concur with your assessment.

For comparison, my Dac2 in an open BDI tall component stand runs cool (not even warm) in fixed mode 5/55 USB with USB from Mac Mini to Dac2 and HDMI from Oppo BDP-95 to Atlona HD577 De-embedder to Dac2 via S/PDIF BNC coax and XLR out of Dac2 to STP-SE on its own shelf below the Dac2.

Wishing you the same enjoyment,
Richard

Richard, made the adjustment to 5/55. The impact and slam are still there and more clarity or maybe lower noise floor. I put on Herbie Mann At the Village Gate. Had heard you could hear the vibraharp player humming when he played but never could quite make it out in the past. With the new DAC 2 settings now at 5/55 the humming is very clear so diffenitly this an optimal setting! Thanks again! Music collection is all new again.....will have to go back and listen to what I've been missing.

Hope others with the W4S DAC 2 going direct to amps will try it with a preamp. This setup truly takes this DAC to another level!

Also, out of curiosity what do you set your IRR Bandwidth filter at? Currently have mine at 50k with fast roll off. Not quite sure what effect this has or what I should listen for.

Back to the music, all the best,
Chuck

I am running a Off Ramp 5 via I2s imput into a W4S Dac-2. While I have not compared it with any of the more expensive "first tier" dacs, it really does sound pretty amazing. I have been running variable @ 62. I'm going to try the Fixed 5/55 setting as you suggest. One question - the Dac-2 Manual says that for fixed mode to "operate properly" Min Level must be setto zero. Is the manual wrong?

Randy

Originally Posted by ckpiv

Richard, made the adjustment to 5/55. The impact and slam are still there and more clarity or maybe lower noise floor. I put on Herbie Mann At the Village Gate. Had heard you could hear the vibraharp player humming when he played but never could quite make it out in the past. With the new DAC 2 settings now at 5/55 the humming is very clear so diffenitly this an optimal setting! Thanks again! Music collection is all new again.....will have to go back and listen to what I've been missing.

Hope others with the W4S DAC 2 going direct to amps will try it with a preamp. This setup truly takes this DAC to another level!

Also, out of curiosity what do you set your IRR Bandwidth filter at? Currently have mine at 50k with fast roll off. Not quite sure what effect this has or what I should listen for.

Back to the music, all the best,
Chuck

Chuck, that is wonderful news. There's another "cue" you might also listen for if you happen to have Julie London's Time For Love, The Best of Julie London, track 16, Daddy at 1:16 into the track during a bridge when one can hear her clear her throat. John Marks reviewing Wilson Duette speaker mentioned this "cue" in his review in Stereophile magazine. I happened to have that album in my collection. Sure enough it was audible and I guess my Dac2 etc. and speakers are performing synergistically well together. I just mention this "cue" as a curiosity. You know, as in what the camera films that is left in that people might see for a second but it does not register. It also indicates to some degree of level the sensitivity of one's system.

As to your question:
"Also, out of curiosity what do you set your IRR Bandwidth filter at? Currently have mine at 50k with fast roll off. Not quite sure what effect this has or what I should listen for."

I asked Clint about that setting around the same time when he was kind enough to spend some telephone time with me to explain preference settings. Clint acknowledges EJ is the real go-to person for technical questions. And Clint's response was a little vague about that setting and suggested that it was really not terribly important and could be just left "as is" (read as left at the setting at the time of first use of the Dac2). And if I chose to "mess" around with it, I could but he thought it would not have a critical influence on the performance of the Dac2. I did not press him about his casual response, accepting his response. Nor did I bring the matter up when I spoke with EJ about the matter with my preamp which he repaired.

I realize that my response is so non-specific as to be useless to you. Perhaps, I should have written that I do not know and Clint did not fully explain precisely; and I chose not to press him, accepting his generalization. I have not changed from the default setting. If you decide to delve further into this matter, and care to share what you discover, I'd be happy to learn what I ignored at the time, trusting Clint's cue not to be concerned, but play with it if you want.

Again, so glad to share what I could that makes a difference in the realm of greater satisfaction.

Best,
Richard

PS I have that Herbie Mann album. Now I will listen specifically for that hum which may have registered as part of the instrument's operation.

Originally Posted by RSB

I am running a Off Ramp 5 via I2s imput into a W4S Dac-2. While I have not compared it with any of the more expensive "first tier" dacs, it really does sound pretty amazing. I have been running variable @ 62. I'm going to try the Fixed 5/55 setting as you suggest. One question - the Dac-2 Manual says that for fixed mode to "operate properly" Min Level must be setto zero. Is the manual wrong?

Randy

Randy, that is a good question. And I do not pretend to know more than the manual. My good counsel was merely a repeat of Clint's telephone conversation about the setup and he specifically said in regard to the fixed setting, that if I did not go below a certain volume, I could leave the min at a starting point above the "zero" setting. But that I should also understand that any number minimum setting for fixed level meant it would also reduce from the top of "70". Furthermore, I asked another question which prompted him to relate that an optimal setting, according to Clint, would be not to go above 55 (I chose 5 as minimum), because the clarity etc. would begin to decay after 55 and up. It is with that perspective that I answer you. I have, therefore, not addressed your question directly because I do not know the correct answer. This was over a year ago; and, if I remember correctly, Clint said the manual says "zero" but not to be concerned about that. However, I would feel more comfortable with an informed answer to give you. Perhaps the best source for the right answer, as you can decide for yourself, would be to call or email Clint or Ej and get the right answer from the people who know.
Sorry for the vague response.

I was fortunate enough to be invited by Empirical Audio's SN to beta test his OffRamp 5 via I2S (my choice) as he knew I have a Dac2 and he wanted some real time feedback from a user in the field. Of course, I accepted his invitation. And, my assessment, was that as soon as I inserted the OR5 into my system, something dramatically changed. Oddly, I could not tell immediately if it was a good difference or not. SN explained it as low jitter difference. I soon became accustomed to that sound; and, honestly, I not only agreed with his clarification, I am saving to order one shortly.
Please let us know what you experience, learn and discover, if you care to.
Best,
Richard

The filters in the W4S DAC2 are the oe filters built in to the ESS 9018 DAC chip. The IIR filter bandwidth is basically for using the ESS for DSD playback, for general PCM use, I would just set it to the highest corner frequency. The "slow" or "fast" setting is for the FIR filter: "slow" rolls off the high frequency response a little early, at shallower slope, this results in less ringing, a slight droop in high frequency extension, and more leakage of alias products into the audible bandwidth. "fast" is a typical steep cut off filter, resulting in full extension of the high frequencies, typical pre and post ringing, and the best rejection of alias products.
I use the ESS 9018 in my (DIY) DAC, and go back and forth from the "slow" and "fast" settings... unfortunately, I do not have a clear preference for either setting... the differences are fairly subtle, but worth investigating.

Originally Posted by barrows

The filters in the W4S DAC2 are the oe filters built in to the ESS 9018 DAC chip. The IIR filter bandwidth is basically for using the ESS for DSD playback, for general PCM use, I would just set it to the highest corner frequency. The "slow" or "fast" setting is for the FIR filter: "slow" rolls off the high frequency response a little early, at shallower slope, this results in less ringing, a slight droop in high frequency extension, and more leakage of alias products into the audible bandwidth. "fast" is a typical steep cut off filter, resulting in full extension of the high frequencies, typical pre and post ringing, and the best rejection of alias products.
I use the ESS 9018 in my (DIY) DAC, and go back and forth from the "slow" and "fast" settings... unfortunately, I do not have a clear preference for either setting... the differences are fairly subtle, but worth investigating.

Thank you for the concise and clear explanation of those filters. Lucky us to have you take over a subject I could only fumble with. I still find it a bit confusing as to what would be best for my purposes even with your cues. And take as a useful cue your encouraging us to experiment with the settings to discern what if any differences affect the playback. W4S's manual was, for me, very superficial. I would have preferred a recommendation by EJ but the manual is very circumspect and perhaps intended that way.
Thank you for stepping in barrows.
Much appreciation,
Richard