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  1. #26
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikM View Post
    It's not?? It's only got a Ethernet input.. same as the Rendu
    The Orbiter operates using the Logitech Squeezebox server.

    Eloise

  2. #27
    Senior Member wappinghigh's Avatar
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    Yes, Eloise is correct...The Orbiter is not true "Universal". You have to use LMS. It also doesn't support DSD. These might appear subtle differences, but I assure you they become important if you want to run an independent UPnP media server like Minimserver…(which was discussed in CA TV Ep2)….
    New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacbookAir2011>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Rotel RB976MkII (bridged)/RotelRKB2100>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

  3. #28
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wappinghigh View Post
    Yes, Eloise is correct...The Orbiter is not true "Universal". You have to use LMS. It also doesn't support DSD. These might appear subtle differences, but I assure you they become important if you want to run an independent UPnP media server like Minimserver…(which was discussed in CA TV Ep2)….
    You can actually do DSD over PCM (DoP) with the Orbiter if you manually create DoP files with the Foobar SACD plugin.

    Eloise

  4. #29
    Team, it's now possible to play DSD/DoP with Vortexbox 2.2 and an updated version of its Logitech Media Server...

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  5. #30
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Team, it's now possible to play DSD/DoP with Vortexbox 2.2 and an updated version of its Logitech Media Server...
    Do you mean you can send DSD to a DoP capable DAC via the Orbiter when using Vortexbox? What about using Squeezebox Touch with the EDO plug in?

    Do you need to convert the files manually still or does LMS now support DSF and DFF files directly and convert them for DoP?

    Can you give more details?

    Eloise
    ...in my opinion / experience...

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Do you mean you can send DSD to a DoP capable DAC via the Orbiter when using Vortexbox? What about using Squeezebox Touch with the EDO plug in?

    Do you need to convert the files manually still or does LMS now support DSF and DFF files directly and convert them for DoP?

    Can you give more details?

    Eloise
    Yes, we can send DSD to a DoP capable DAC via the Orbiter with a new version of LMS on VB 2.2. This supports DSD64 and DSD128 via DoP and can also down sample to PCM at the highest rate supported by your DAC if your DAC does not support DoP. You no longer need to convert the files as previously discussed with this version of LMS. This version of LMS supports both DSF and DFF directly and they appear as part of your music collection with any metadata they contain. The version of LMS will not be officially released until the end of the year, but I'm assisting my customers with updating there VB based music servers.

    All I know about the Squeezebox Touch with the EDO plug in is that it has issues with some USB DACs and I don't provide for support for it.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  7. #32
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Is this LMS7.8 which is discussed in beta or something else?

    Eloise

    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Yes, we can send DSD to a DoP capable DAC via the Orbiter with a new version of LMS on VB 2.2. This supports DSD64 and DSD128 via DoP and can also down sample to PCM at the highest rate supported by your DAC if your DAC does not support DoP. You no longer need to convert the files as previously discussed with this version of LMS. This version of LMS supports both DSF and DFF directly and they appear as part of your music collection with any metadata they contain. The version of LMS will not be officially released until the end of the year, but I'm assisting my customers with updating there VB based music servers.

    All I know about the Squeezebox Touch with the EDO plug in is that it has issues with some USB DACs and I don't provide for support for it.

    Jesus R

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Team, it's now possible to play DSD/DoP with Vortexbox 2.2 and an updated version of its Logitech Media Server...

    Jesus R
    Jesus, what is the reason for Rendu and Orbiter having different "operating systems", with the differences that one is a UPNP Renderer and the other a LMS player...

    I mean, would make sense to offer choice in terms of applications, independently of the format out. Or even having a streamer with both options, USB and SPDIF...

    Sorry for the naive question...sure there are good reasons...

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Is this LMS7.8 which is discussed in beta or something else?

    Eloise
    When you hang out with the A team you always get something special

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJazz View Post
    Jesus, what is the reason for Rendu and Orbiter having different "operating systems", with the differences that one is a UPNP Renderer and the other a LMS player...

    I mean, would make sense to offer choice in terms of applications, independently of the format out. Or even having a streamer with both options, USB and SPDIF...

    Sorry for the naive question...sure there are good reasons...
    Mike, the short answer is that they each appeal to different customers. I have customers that insist on USB and others that just don't want USB. There is nothing wrong with a really great SPDIF output and some people prefer it. Then we have guys who will only consider i2s output. I promised Chris an exclusive on new features built into the Sonic Orbiter so I will not discuss them here except to say there are options. Also, I have not added SPDIF output to the Sonic Orbiter because 99% of customers will ignore it and insist on using some other digital converter or DAC. It would just add cost for no reason...

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  11. #36
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    When you hang out with the A team you always get something special
    Jesus ... Do you realise how arrogant I find comments like that? Either don't answer a question; or give a proper answer.

    Eloise

  12. #37
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Is this LMS7.8 which is discussed in beta or something else?
    Just to answer my own question (at least somewhat) following the instructions in Vortexbox forum I have upgraded to LMS7.8 and now have the option of enabling DoP with my Squeezebox Touch (running EDO).

    It's two lines of code run at the command line - see the 10th post Logitech Media Server (LMS) 7.8.0 - VortexBox user forum

    Eloise

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Jesus ... Do you realise how arrogant I find comments like that? Either don't answer a question; or give a proper answer.

    Eloise
    LOL

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Just to answer my own question (at least somewhat) following the instructions in Vortexbox forum I have upgraded to LMS7.8 and now have the option of enabling DoP with my Squeezebox Touch (running EDO).

    It's two lines of code run at the command line - see the 10th post Logitech Media Server (LMS) 7.8.0 - VortexBox user forum

    Eloise
    Eloise, your becoming predictable.

    Team, I have been doing this long enough to know that if you mess with your unit from command line 9 out 10 times you will end up with a dead unit. Eloise just asked you to override the stable release of LMS for a version in BETA testing. This command enables the BETA repo for VB. She did not warn you that it may or may not have issues. She did not warn you that it will not work on all versions of VB. She did not warn you that it is primarily used for development and debugging. She didn't tell you that updating to that version will prevent you from getting official releases with important updates. She didn't take the time to notice that one important step is missing from the procedure. My point is that VB is meant to work automatically and when this update gets to that state it will be released. When I preform these updates for customers as an Authorized Vortexbox Builder I properly inform them, advice them and support them. I hope Eloise will be round to support you if you try these changes.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  15. #40
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    No, I offer information so people may make a CHOICE...

    In the same way as in a thread started asking for a LPSU for a CAPS discussion was started into DIY solutions!

    As I say, all I expect of you companies such as yourself to be open and complete when answering questions and to act professionally. If there are things you don't want to advertise right now; don't mention them at all - don't start with hints like a little schoolgirl who knows a secret she isn't meant to be telling but will show off that she knows!!

    Instead you suggest this is down to your work when large amount is off the backs and skills of others in the community!

    Oh and I would suggest its more like one times out if ten you may end up with a dead unit that if you are the kind of person who will head off and investigate beta software and has DIY'd your own solution you are likely to be able to correct!

    Eloise
    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Eloise, your becoming predictable.

    Team, I have been doing this long enough to know that if you mess with your unit from command line 9 out 10 times you will end up with a dead unit. Eloise just asked you to override the stable release of LMS for a version in BETA testing. This command enables the BETA repo for VB. She did not warn you that it may or may not have issues. She did not warn you that it will not work on all versions of VB. She did not warn you that it is primarily used for development and debugging. She didn't tell you that updating to that version will prevent you from getting official releases with important updates. She didn't take the time to notice that one important step is missing from the procedure. My point is that VB is meant to work automatically and when this update gets to that state it will be released. When I preform these updates for customers as an Authorized Vortexbox Builder I properly inform them, advice them and support them. I hope Eloise will be round to support you if you try these changes.

    Jesus R

  16. #41
    Eloise, you seem to like to accuse me of things. Accusations do not make for facts. I know what I have contributed to in the process and you don't so I can only blame you for your ignorance.

    Jesus R
    Last edited by vortecjr; 11-16-2013 at 07:34 AM.
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    The Orbiter isn't a UPnP renderer.
    Here is another fine example of Eloise providing misinformation. Be advised that she does not speak for Sonore and does not know anything about our product. For the record the Sonore Orbiter is UPNP compliant.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  18. #43
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Eloise, you seem to like to accuse me of things. Accusations do not make for facts. I know what I have contributed to in the process and you don't so I can only blame you for your ignorance.
    My so called ignorance of what your contributions are come from the fact that when asked you obstructed and refuse to answer questions. Hiding behind so called confidentiality clauses!

    Eloise

    PS if I dislike you so much why do I recommend Sonore Rendu in the 5th or 6th post of this thread.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by wappinghigh View Post
    The Rendue is a great choice….but I'm still waiting on someone to develop a streamer like this that outputs via Asynch USB… i2s might be fine for your present DAC.. but what do you do, when you want to upgrade your PS Audio PWD MKII???? i2s is not a very common DAC input… I just wish someone would develop a DSD capable streamer box like the Rendue (with all it's great features) with the more versatile Asynch USB output interface.... and get it into the market (So I could buy it).. Folks must have lot's of USB capable DAC's out there: that could all of a sudden be turned into network streamers with this approach.. They could also experiment with true network streaming (as apposed to playing from an attached computer)... and hang onto their beloved DAC gear (that just may suite their other components just fine)...without having to buy a new Lumin or Linn for streaming HiREZ.. .. Cheers
    If I talk to much Eloise will say I'm running a commercial. If I don't say enough Eloise will say I'm keeping information and knowledge from the world. Not caring what she thinks...I'll respond to your question and she can complain as usual.

    We developed the Sonic Orbiter to be the Ethernet input and USB output alternate to the Rendu. The Sonic Orbiter is based on a traditional computer MB running a custom Linux OS. I'm not in any way taking credit for Linux here, but I had quite a bit to do with my product. The Rendu is not a traditional computer no matter how much Eloise argues to the contrary. The Rendu does not have traditional DC to DC converter (AKA SMPS), it does not have a video chip, it does not have a USB hub chip and so on. The Rendu is running a fixed set of instructions and is designed to just do one thing....Render music. There is no intent for it to ever have USB output. It's simplicity appeals to me and to many customers not looking for a computer based solution. The SPDIF output is top notch and the i2s is very good into the few DACs that support it.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  20. #45
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Here is another fine example of Eloise providing misinformation. Be advised that she does not speak for Sonore and does not know anything about our product. For the record the Sonore Orbiter is UPNP compliant.
    So if I have a network setup with a Linn DS player using a NAS running minimserve and nothing else; I can plug a Sonore Orbiter in and control it with the Kinsky app on my iPad without installing any additional software?

    To me that is the definition of UPnP compliant.

    Please accept my apology if this is not true.

    Eloise

  21. #46
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Here is another fine example of Eloise providing misinformation. Be advised that she does not speak for Sonore and does not know anything about our product. For the record the Sonore Orbiter is UPNP compliant.
    Can I quote what Jesus wrote about the SotM Mini Server (which please forgive me if I'm wrong uses the same processing board and firmware) over at Audiocircle on 2nd September 2013
    Logitech uses a proprietary system that is similar to DLNA/UPNP. LMS can see other DLNA server if enabled to do so, but we are not recommending that you use it that way. Only LMS can stream content to the mini server.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    Can I quote what Jesus wrote about the SotM Mini Server (which please forgive me if I'm wrong uses the same processing board and firmware) over at Audiocircle on 2nd September 2013
    Eloise, your fishing in the black sea. That information is correct for early September and accurate with respect to LMS usage. However, we move quickly around here and things have changed. What I said today is also correct and most importantly current.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

  23. #48
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_ELF View Post
    So if I have a network setup with a Linn DS player using a NAS running minimserve and nothing else; I can plug a Sonore Orbiter in and control it with the Kinsky app on my iPad without installing any additional software?

    To me that is the definition of UPnP compliant.

    Please accept my apology if this is not true.

    Eloise
    Jesus... Rather than complaining I am working on old information... Please comment on that above statement!

    Perhaps you should update your website if I am misrepresenting what your device does.

    Of course as people ask these questions it's obvious I'm not the only one who doesn't know what your devices do!

    As I have stated before, I think you are building good devices, but (it appears) many people don't understand what they do, even when they know what a UPnP renderer and LMS is!

    Eloise
    ...in my opinion / experience...

  24. #49
    Trouble maker... Audio_ELF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortecjr View Post
    Eloise, your fishing in the black sea. That information is correct for early September and accurate with respect to LMS usage. However, we move quickly around here and things have changed. What I said today is also correct and most importantly current.

    Jesus R
    So ... Yes or no is the answer people need to know...

    Can the SotM Mini Server and Sonore Orbiter (as of 16th November 2013) access music on a UPnP server without additional software?
    ...in my opinion / experience...

  25. #50
    This is the first image posted anyplace of the Sonic Orbiter's "APP Switcher" GUI webpage. I asked Chris for permission to post it here because he is reviewing the unit and was granted an exclusive on it. The Sonore Sonic Orbiter and the SOtM sMS-100 Mini Server are based on the same OS and each has four selectable output modes. The OS was developed to work seamlessly with a Vortexbox (VB) based music server. However, it can also work with any computer or NAS on the home network with certain limitations. Refer below for some info on each mode of operation.

    sonore-sonic-orbiter-switcher-image.png

    Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output Mode - Default mode of operation - This mode is what is currently specified on the product webpages and what is documented in the manual. This mode works with Logitech Media Server (LMS) on VB to play 384 PCM and DSD128 via DoP. DSD playback via VB requires a modified VB version 2.2. It can also work with LMS on your computer or your NAS, but is limited to PCM playback.

    Mode #2 - AirPlay Output Mode - BETA mode of operation - This mode is not listed in the product webpages and is not documented in the manual. This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from compatible devices. It's working well, but understand that we are still trying to get our hands on supported USB devices.

    Mode #3 - DLNA Output Mode - BETA mode of operation - This mode is not listed in the product webpages and is not documented in the manual. This is a UPNP render that utilizes streams from DLNA servers and controllers. It's working well, but understand that we are still trying to get our hands on supported USB devices.

    Mode #4 - MPD Output Mode - BETA mode of operation - This mode is not listed in the product webpages and is not documented in the manual. This mode is intended to work with a VB based music server on the home network. When this mode is selected it locates the existing VB music server and automatically mounts is storage drive for MPD to play music from. It's working well, but some familiarity with MPD is recommended.

    Jesus R
    Featured Products:
    Sonore Rendu - Ethernet to SPDIF/i2s Output: http://www.sonore.us/index7.html

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